Is It Likely: Stripped Sleeve Yoke Spline or Stripped Propeller Shaft Spline? (1 Viewer)

Hi folks, first, yes, I searched and searched and saw several super helpful threads but at the risk of getting the "Search More Fawker" flame treatment, I need to ask how likely it is that I stripped either the sleeve yoke spline or the propeller shaft spline?

Here are the particulars:

1. Truck sig listed but one thing not listed is the double cardan front driveshaft.

2. Started hearing some soft scuffing sounds coming from under the vehicle today on way to work. Had been busting through tons of mud yesterday. Thought that there was still some mud stuck somewhere like rotors or dustshield despite washing all the mud for around two hours yesterday (damn ih8mud!), so, went to the powerwash and washed the yaazoo out of the wheels, brakes, axles, diffs, tc, etc, everything from front to back. Still the sound!

3. The sound comes when the vehicle is moving, does not matter if brakes are on or off, seems to help some if i am accelerating, seems to hurt some if i am coasting downhill, seems to almost go away if i am accelerating uphill. The sound sounds rotational and somewhat eliptical in other words not like a perfectly round thing sounds like with the same rhythm over and over but more like an eliptical or oddly round thing sounds like with a sort of miss and hit sound.

4. I took off the two rear tires, calipers and rotors. Found some debris and dirt but nothing major, cleaned it all up and buttoned it all up and, still the sound!

5. I took of the two front tires, calipers but not rotors, checked all around anywhere and everywhere, no debris, no dirt, no scuff marks on rotor faces or rotor edges, no scuff marks on pads, nothing out of ordinary anywhere.

6. Went to the driveshafts, regreased everything, I noticed that the middle zerk fitting on the double cardan part of the driveshaft that goes to the TC is missing!!! Sheared off maybe dont know it was there two thousand miles ago when I greased and replaced oil and filter.

7. Took several test runs to try to find the exact point of the sound, no use so I then took the vehicle and put the thing on four jackstands and had the wife put it in drive with no gas at all. By doing this I was able to tell the sound was coming either from the front diff, the TC or most likely the DS.

8. Turned the vehicle off, got under it and started torquing the front DS with my hands and was able to hear the sound!!! So, its either the DS or the front diff or the front of the TC.


Sorry for all that, was hoping it would help. So here's the question, after searching I saw someone with a 3FE who was wondering whether he might have stripped the splines to the front driveshaft. He was ridiculed and razzed as expected and that was about it. I saw lots and lots on spider joints etc but from what I saw nothing on this specific.

I'm sorta up s*** creek in the sense that I gave our other driver to my brother to attend a dermatology conference of all things in Aspen, my 4Runner was recently sold, and I cannot use my classic as for one tomorrow we will have some snow, and for another, I have cut out three areas of the trunk floor for repair!!! Doh!!! This is the first time we have had only one vehicle to use in years and years and sure as snot, this is when something fawks up with the mighty cruiser! Double Doh!!! Not complaining, just laughing about it, in fact the wife and I sat down and laughed so freakin hard we hurt just to think that normall we have four or five wonderful vehicles at our disposal and now the first time there is only one, not even one works! Hilarious really.

Anyway to wrap up this leviathon, I am going to go remove the DS cause if for no other reason I need to replace that zerk. But I just wanted to ask any of you fine folks for your thoughts on how likely it is that I stripped the innards of that thing after a morning of ferocious mudding! Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

Man, that was some "find the noise-athon"! Clarify the missing zirk fitting. Is it one IN the joint, or the one on the end of the shaft that fills the splines. The reason I ask is that if its the one that fills the splines of the shaft (vs lubes a spider) then the open hole could indeed have inhaled mud repeatedly as the shaft shortened and elongated with suspension movements. That would make some pretty odd noises. Easily rectified and your plan to pull the DS in question is a good one.

Otherwise, did you try torqueing the shaft while first pressing it against the TC, and then pulling away from the TC? Might indicate the source more closely as I'm envisioning a collar of dried mud contacting the TC output flange, which is pulled out of contact in one direction.

Strip the splines on the front DS? You'd be ridiculed unceremoniously. I don't think so, but if your missing fitting WAS the one allowing mud into the splines and it inhaled some then you'll have that symptom.

DougM

Doug, thanks for the reply man. I did try to torque the DS both side to side and front to back and rotational clockwise then counterclockwise. I could not hear the sound with the front to back movement and I could not hear it with the side to side but I could clearly hear it while rotating CW then CCW as hard as I could turn the thing with my hands.

One interesting thing is that I could not create the sound with just the bolts to the front diff removed. Yet if I held the sleeve as hard as I could with one hand and torqued CW then CCW with my other hand on the rest of the DS as hard as I could, I could just barely make out the scraping scuffing sound before one hand or the other broke loose. I'm thinking this might mean that the sleeve yoke is stripped yet with my eye I cannot honestly say that the thing is stripped.

Although I was too tired to thoroughly look through the thing, I could not see any significant amount of grit or gravel in the driveshaft anywhere. I also could not see anything that automatically looked broken or buffed down or scratched up or anything. Ohh, the zerk that is missing is the middle one on the double cardan end of the front driveshaft. I dont know what you would call that section but it is smack in the middle of the two flange yokes is how I would say it.

One thing that looked good for sure, thank the good lord, are the splines on the DS itself. Hopefully if the splines on the yoke are slightly stripped I can just order that one part. I'm taking the thing to DriveLine Industries tomorrow to look at it. I scribed everything so I know how it goes whether that is in phase or out of phase I still cannot remember.

Who knows, I may have been the first to actually strip that sleeve! I'll let you all know more as I know more. Meanwhile, any and all advice is most welcomed and most appreciated. Thanks fellas!

Okay, an update for anyone who wants one. Took the front shaft to the local drive line industries and had them take the look. The splines on the sleeve and on the shaft are fine, phew, no unceremonious ridicule, well, at least not for that! ;p Turned out that I basically stripped the snot out of the double cardan part of the driveshaft. That area had to be totally redone. Nothing was actually cracked but everything was looser than, well, it was all loose! They rebuilt that part of the shaft, hot tanked the thing, repainted it a purdy flat black, rebalanced it, replaced the sheared off zerk, cleaned all the crap out of the area behind that sheared off zerk, and gave it back to me all for 140, not too bad i reckon. Anyway, problem solved. Now I just have to have the time to reinstall the shaft. Thanks for the advice and assistance, it is greatly appreciated.

Just thought of one other question. For anyone with the double cardan front shaft, do you have any tricks to getting the nuts torqued that go from the rear flange of the front shaft to the front flange of the TC??? The way that area is, it is so tight that getting a socket straight on is incredibly difficult. When I removed the shaft I found that removing the spacer blocks for the front swaybar and dropping the swaybar down gave me just enough access to get the sockets on those nuts sorta straight and sorta crooked at the same time. I got the nuts off but in the process stripped them ever so slightly. I could clearly reuse them but I do not like doing that cause it just makes the next removal for whatever reason so much worse. I tried to find some M10 x 1.0 nuts and eventually I did but they are so thick walled that they wont fit due to clearance. I might have to go to the stealership here and see if fifteen bucks will get me four nuts! Or, I could go to the smart shopper palace, get a reasonable rate, and enjoy 2WD a little longer!!! Anyway, to get the nuts back on I was going to go with a crow's foot 14mm I think that might give more clearance. Any other thoughts? Ohh, can you use a torque wrench with a crow's foot or does that screw up the measurement? Thanks.

Crows foot works fine with torque wrench, but as with extensions, there is a formula that most have forgotten to ensure the correct amount of torque for the length of extension....but....I don't remember it. I'd go five over the factory spec with a 14 mil and 10-15 over with an 8 inch extension.
IIRC it is supposed to be four foot pounds for every inch of extension but it is very foggy......and not crucial at this size of bolt. Just utilize your calibrated elbow in conjunction with your calibrated eyeball and call it good.
I hope this helps.......
Dan

KliersLC said:

Crows foot works fine with torque wrench, but as with extensions, there is a formula that most have forgotten to ensure the correct amount of torque for the length of extension....but....I don't remember it. I'd go five over the factory spec with a 14 mil and 10-15 over with an 8 inch extension.
IIRC it is supposed to be four foot pounds for every inch of extension but it is very foggy......and not crucial at this size of bolt. Just utilize your calibrated elbow in conjunction with your calibrated eyeball and call it good.
I hope this helps.......
Dan

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Very cool, thanks Dan.

Is it that the extension flexes and causes the error? I'm having a hard time thinking that just being 8" or 12" away from the socket would cause the error cause the same amount of force is turning the nut or bolt or whatever so it must be that the actual extension is flexing. Is that correct? Anyone remember is it infact 4 lbs per inch? Thanks, this is cool.

Interesting as i have one of these too. Are you saying the u joints that make up the double cardan had gone bad? If so, that does not speak well for their quality. Had you tried just lubing everything up prior to taking it out? It doesn't sound right, as you said you had just lubed it up 2000 miles previously.

Let us know if the problem is solved, as you really won't know untill you re-install the shaft.

I wonder what you got up in there to shear the zerk-we need some more details there too.

Thanks for posting your experience.

I actualy had the exact same problem that your diagnosis is saying. My front double cardan shaft went bad and the ds shop i took it too decided they couldnt fix it and lost some of the parts..... anyways now its going back to slee.... i have the stock ds back on and i have the same sounds though....only way worse.... same thing with going down hills with just a light acceleration... i have done alot of the diagnois you discussed and am still trying to narrow it down because i am getting it with both shafts..... a little disapionted in the life span of the double cardan front shaft.....

The torque adjustment is indeed caused by the flex of the steel in the extension or the jaw on the crows foot. In normal applications, i.e most smaller nuts and bolts, 14mm or less w\less than 60ft\lbs, it really isn't an issue as the metal doesn't flex much at that load. Anything higher than that and you should probably adjust your torque.
It appears that I may have been mistaken about the crows foot, the links here show the "correct formula for crows feet but I couldn't find anything on strait extensions. I was taught the 4 ft/lbs per inch in USMC mechanics skool and we were talking about 3/4 inch drive torque wrenches and torqueing to 450+ ft/lbs. I assumed that this applies to smaller setups but now that I think about it, the ratio may not be equal with a smaller drive wrench....... IN anycase, when torqueing anything that requires a little bit of a "grunt" and using an extension, it is a good idea to overtorque a bit, the longer the ext or set of ext the more torque needed at the wrench to transfer the desired torque to the bolt.


http://www.engineersedge.com/manufacturing_spec/torque_wrench_1.htm
http://www.engineersedge.com/manufacturing_spec/torque_wrench_2.htm

How long have you been using the double cardan driveshafts?

Cruiserdrew said:

Interesting as i have one of these too. Are you saying the u joints that make up the double cardan had gone bad? If so, that does not speak well for their quality. Had you tried just lubing everything up prior to taking it out? It doesn't sound right, as you said you had just lubed it up 2000 miles previously.

Let us know if the problem is solved, as you really won't know untill you re-install the shaft.

I wonder what you got up in there to shear the zerk-we need some more details there too.

Thanks for posting your experience.

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Sorry I should have stressed the fact the zerk had sheared off sometime since the time that I finished the lube oil and filter the last time. IOW, it could have sheared off when I was pumping grease into it way back when, or it could have sheared off sunday when I was really working the rig through some insane mud, or it could have sheared sometime in between. Who knows?

The other thing is that according to another trusted advisor, that regular raised zerk is normally not setup and that most of the time the sunken needle style is setup instead. When you look into that area it is hard to help thinking that if large amounts of mud got crammed up it could flex with the joints and flex the zerk right off. Again, who knows?

But, what I do know is that I totally abused that driveshaft by having an opening that could both shoot out grease and allow in mud and dirt and debris. I also know that I took the thing through so much slop that I was pulling out all sorts of short mud softened sticks ranging from twigs to things that were 1/2 inch in diameter. I had stuff stuck everywhere, it was wonderful and wonderfully messy.

The other thing I know is that the driveshaft is always getting lots of extra power and lots of extra torque and that on sunday the thing was really working ferociously hard crawling out of rivers and up steep slippery soft mud and clay and muck slopes. It was submerged in mud, water, ice, snow, everything off and on and on again. I had to help pull someone for some distance, etc etc etc.

Folks, I consider this to be my fault, not a flawed driveshaft. If I had kept a keener eye on things, I would have seen the sheared zerk. I'm starting to wonder more and more why that zerk was there; the shop replaced it with a needle style setup. If it indeed did not come that way, maybe someone swapped it cause they like regular raised zerks better, maybe some mechanic, maybe a monkey lube place, who the hell knows, maybe someone broke a needle off in the original one and replaced it with a small stubby zerk, who knows. Anyway, this was a combination and culmination of a series of stupid things on my part and my part alone, not a flawed driveshaft. Please consider it that way as well.

That last thing to consider too is that I told the shop to take the thing totally apart and replace anything that showed significant signs of wear. That's the way, ahaa ahaa, I like it! When I went to pick it up the technician told me the major problem was the "ball and socket" between the two joints. That area was totally crammed up with crap despite all my washings. That area was also reamed out somewhat. That area was dry as dust and full of it too. The technician told me they "ground down this and this" replaced "this and that" all while showing me through the opening of the two joints. To be honest I do not know the terminology of all the specific things in there. I trust him cause he called and asked about replacing the things that were "worn but within reason" and I asked him to do whatever would make the thing last long time. Remember, I'm a paranoid, obsessive, compulsive, worry wart and I happily pay for peace of mind. So please process this through all the appropriate filters. The driveshaft itself is impressive, even the technician noted the thicker tubing, the quality of the joints, the quality of the total package. I cannot explain the other driveshaft failure above but I can at least explain this one!!!

How many miles to failure?

Rich said:

How many miles to failure?

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On mine it was approximately 55K. Not much but judging from all the components that were totally fine, makes me think the actual lifespan is in the upper 150K range. Not sure but seeing how well the front half did compared to the back half that I screwed up somehow, the thing looks like it could go forever.

probably only a couple thousand. miles... i dont dd this rig so most of those were trail or camping tirp mles. I am not saying slee sold me a shady driveline because i abuse my stuff as well.

NW-sickboy said:

probably only a couple thousand. miles... i dont dd this rig so most of those were trail or camping tirp mles. I am not saying slee sold me a shady driveline because i abuse my stuff as well.

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Granted it's a nice driveshaft, but Slee did switch suppliers I believe just before I got mine this time latst year. Maybe he will chime in with the reasons why.

Also, has anyone ever heard of a Toyota Double cardan going bad? There are millions out there in mini truck applications, in front FJ60 applications, and many people with SOA's have adapted Toyota double cardan shafts to run in the rear. They get worked hard, in all kinds of muck and rock, and I've not heard of a bad one, though it must happen.

When I had some shafts resized, our local guys said they almost NEVER need to replace Toyota U-joints. I know I have two trucks that are likely running on original Toyota u-joints and have been in service almost 30 years in the case of my FJ40.

NW-sickboy said:

probably only a couple thousand. miles... i dont dd this rig so most of those were trail or camping tirp mles. I am not saying slee sold me a shady driveline because i abuse my stuff as well.

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Trust me, nothing but the best of the best in parts, service, anything they do. I think we all take that for granted. Again, in my case my problem was my fault, I of course have no way to know what caused the problem you are having especially with only a couple thousand miles, but, the good thing about the best of the best in parts, service, etc is that they wont do you or anyone any wrong, whatever it is, it is, you wont get dicked around.

Another thing to mention is that I technically have no way to know exactly where my driveshaft came from, it never occured to me actually now that I think of it, surely there are several different vendors and several different brands??? Crap as I think of it more and more now its embarrasing to think that I casually called up there today for advice not even knowing exactly where my damn driveshaft came from!!! Man where are my manners anymore? Anyway, regardless of that, as always I got great advice and an offer to just send it up there if the drive line place here was having a hard time with it. That's the thing about being the best of the best!

Cruiserdrew said:

Also, has anyone ever heard of a Toyota Double cardan going bad? There are millions out there in mini truck applications, in front FJ60 applications, and many people with SOA's have adapted Toyota double cardan shafts to run in the rear. They get worked hard, in all kinds of muck and rock, and I've not heard of a bad one, though it must happen.

When I had some shafts resized, our local guys said they almost NEVER need to replace Toyota U-joints. I know I have two trucks that are likely running on original Toyota u-joints and have been in service almost 30 years in the case of my FJ40.

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I had one of the factory double cardans on my 88 4Runner as far as I know. It never gave any trouble but with what 150 HP, it probably would not either!!! The thing about those again is the middle zerk fitting, as far as I know they all have em.

I had a bad rattle in my 81 mini from the double cardan joint, at 250,000, and it was a PITA to get those pressed in 20+year old u joints out, but other than that no problems.