internal (rear) roll cage

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when i bought my truck, the previous owner had an internal roll cage already in it. it has sparked a lot if interest.

it was purchased from 4x4 connection many years ago on close out for roughly $100. i have searched on their site and cant find anything similar. sorry. (i am sending him this link, hopefully he will chime in).

the wire that keeps my furry critter back there was home made by the PO. i will take a lot of pictures tonight but here is something to pique your interest...
drawer_image.webp
 
How is the roll bar mounted? Weld in or bolt in... is it a single hoop or does it have kickers?
 
How is the roll bar mounted? Weld in or bolt in... is it a single hoop or does it have kickers?

bolted on. the wheel well and in the cargo area. will take pics tonight. it is more than a single loop, it has the angled iron in the rear... is that a kicker?
 
it almost looks like a stock fj40 cage bent a little bit so that it fits the contour of the 80 (i know it's not) Pretty cool idea, especially if you start mounting stuff to it and doing things with it, and It should at least save the general shape of the rear of the 80 and its contents and passengers. I like it!
 
I'll bet someone with the fabrication skills could do pretty well selling something like that on this forum. (Hint, Hint!!!) ;) I've seen a complete job (from AU?) posted here that looked cool but not available here of course. Is a rollbar similar to the one you have difficult to fab for the front of an 80?
 
I had considered an internal cage for mine with a limited dimension to allow for movement (I am 6'4") but still limit caving in the event of a roll.

I would think that a loop over the driver/passenger front with a loop over the rear and connected/triangulated would work to stiffen up the body in the event of a roll.

As long as the driver was in the seat and could maintain a sitting position the roof couldn't cave in on them and crush, yet minimize weight.

How thick a tube would you need to do such a thing I wonder?

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How thick a tube would you need to do such a thing I wonder?

Depends on the roll. Violent, airborne, flipping rolls will require thicker tubing.

My guess is that a shop that builds cages for race cars would know pretty quickly what kind/size to use.
 
My only concern would be low speed offroad rolls, no rolls as speed, etc.
 
I like cinnamon rolls.

A quick google serach yeilded common cage construction was of thicknesses between .120 and .134 when using DOM 1.5" tube.
 
I don't have pics, but LandcruiserPhil has a real nice full cage in his 80.
It's on my list of to-do's when my welding skills improve. i can run some nice welds, but lack the confidence to piece together something that important.
 
That cage is useless in a roll. It is the A-pillars you need to worry about.
 
For comparison, SCORE rules state any vehicle over 4000 pounds requires 2.000" x 0.120 CDN 4130 seamless chromoly tubing for the roll cage.

Ask me how I know :D Baja 500 June 2007 baby!

Dave
 
If you want full protection, you are talking a six point cage (A/B/D pillars) with a bar between the A pillars just above the windshield (as well as various triangulation points rear of the B pillars). Problem with this is you end up with metal tube to the front and side of the front seat occupants that is within head striking distance in a roll or crash.

So you have to question the risk factors - I have done this before on another rig and wouldn't do it again unless I was buying 5 point harness offroad seats and tying all of the harness mounts into the cage. Bit serious for an 80.

I'd use .120 wall DOM if I was going to do it...but I wouldn't due to probable severe head injury. Of course, shorter occupants might have enough clearance.

Nay
 
Exoinoskeletal thoughts

I've been rolling this problem through my mind for a while now. Anything that comes to the A pillar inside will by default be within range of my skull hitting it hard. Especially since this then requires a bar running across where the visors are at.

Death doesn't scare me. Being a drooling parasitic mess dragging my family into ruin... that scares me. It makes my higher brain functions important to me and means I don't want to have any extra hardware in the cab with me.

How stout would a tube have to be to go through to the firewall right next to the fresh air intake vents just behind the hood and bend back following the angle of the windshield, no kicker in order to hold solid in a simple rollover?

Now, since this theoretical A pillar bar (exterior) is connected to the body (firewall) it will move with the body. follow the drip rail back to the C pillar and then come inside using a flange seal go through the roof and connect to a rollbar with kicker.

Is this span from the A pillar to the C pillar too far to go? How stout would the tube need to be to make it strong enough?

It is this hybrid exoskeleton/inoskeleton idea that has me thinking... Outside of the truck where the passengers are at, inside the truck so that the upper frame is supported by the floor near the body mounts. It is a long span to cover though.
 
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I am not worried about high speed rolls. If I roll high speed I will get hurt no matter what.

The cage i sketched was intended to keep the roof in somewhat of a boxed shape so as to not crush me in a roll over on a trail. I have seen pics of 80s rolled on trail and the top doesn't seem to hold much structurally, so putting in a boxed cage would greatly increase the rigid strength and keep my tallness from becoming rapidly short in such a condition.
 
Cages, hoops and safety

I like the idea of using a sanctioning body rule as the guideline, Dave's SCORE rules are good. I am currently involved at the marque club level in exactly these issues as part of the Safety and Driving Committee - cage and hoop rules. In formulating some of the guidelines, I proposed that *any* cage/hoop design had to comply and fully pass a recognized competition sanctioning body cage or rollbar rule.

As a rule, most sanctioning bodies require a free floating cage, with a minimum (and often - maximum) of 6 mounting points with mandatory triangulation designs. The exception to that is the FIA/SCCA/NASA Rally cages that allow (mandate) triangulation of the cage to the body structure. IMO, this provides a much more realistic guideline to a offroad or street driven 80. It also allows a much tighter tolerance (even seam welding to the pillars) of the bars themselves.

I have designed and had built a couple of different competition and street/track car applications, and recommend that if anyone does this to a civilian 80, that it be done with all the glass removed. This allows a much more roomy cabin, and assures better weld quality potential.

Regarding head injury. There is a lot of technology in the latest foam protection for cages that would cause less damage than a stock A pillar or B pillar.

Hoops vs cage. My own opinion is that a hoop is better than nothing, a cage better than a hoop. The idea of the hoop is to allow a cavity to fit your head in case of a rollover. Cages are commitment, and a properly designed hoop can offer a lot of protection vs a stock truck. IIRC the DOT rollover minimum specification is 1.5 x weight for rollover. That's very little, on road or off. IIRC II, several european countries and automobiles have 2.0-2.5 factors, which gives them a really good marketing tool here.

A pillar protection. That's really tough in terms of getting a practical street design. Usually that requires a minimum of a visor brace and a knee brace, which can become a problem in a 3 point harness barca-lounger seated truck. What might be a better compromise would be a seam welded A pillar bars, and a rear hoop. Now stepping out of a 'sanctioned' rule, but certainly structurally better than stock A pillar protection.

As I've been involved in this committee and policy for less than a year, there are a lot of issues to consider in realistic application guidelines. To date, I've spent more time evaluating variance requests to the current vague guidelines the committee has established, than actually finding a good implementable compromise.

It's really tough to consider 'safety' in the context of cage in a non-competition vehicle. Looking specifically at my 80 in this mix, I would personally consider some type of half cage hoop over the front seats and rear seats as good protection. Possibly an A pillar reinforcement, but I'd take a pass on the visor/knee bar unless 5-6point belts added. Tough to sell that last part in my house....

ST
 
I am thinking a triangulated link between the front and rear hoops with kickers in the rear cargo area to brace it would stiffen up the body to where crush strength is increased over stock. That is what I am worried about. I don't want to risk a slow speed offroad rollover with a rood collapse if I can prevent it with a few hoops and some triangulation.
 

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