For John. N74L vs N101

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hoser said:
I was thinking extending the rear shocks of my LX via 2" extension brackets to get more droop. If I have to lower the bumpstops by 2" I might as well get some of that unused part of the shock back.
Click to expand...

Hoser,
I agree with you. Adding an extension to the N101 or stock shock will give you the same effect as using an L-shock. As long as you add bump stop extensions, you'll get the same travel that Shotts is getting.

I'm going to add a coupler nut and a 1.5 inch piece of bolt with no head (there's a name for this but I can't remember what it is) to the top pin of my 101's. This will lengthen the shock by 2 inches. Then I'm going to add OME trim packers and bump stop extensions. This should be shorter than the N74L by .6 inches and shouldn't require a spring retainer.

I'll post up pics after I get all the parts together.
 
Greg B said:
Hoser,
I agree with you. Adding an extension to the N101 or stock shock will give you the same effect as using an L-shock. As long as you add bump stop extensions, you'll get the same travel that Shotts is getting.

I'm going to add a coupler nut and a 1.5 inch piece of bolt with no head (there's a name for this but I can't remember what it is) to the top pin of my 101's. This will lengthen the shock by 2 inches. Then I'm going to add OME trim packers and bump stop extensions. This should be shorter than the N74L by .6 inches and shouldn't require a spring retainer.

I'll post up pics after I get all the parts together.
Click to expand...

If the N101 shock has 3.6" less travel than the N74L, how will you gain the N74L's "effect" by using a N101 shock?
 
Greg B said:
I'm going to add a coupler nut and a 1.5 inch piece of bolt with no head (there's a name for this but I can't remember what it is) to the top pin of my 101's. This will lengthen the shock by 2 inches.
Click to expand...
Ah cool, with the LX, the shock extensions have to be fairly beefy since the shocks hold a good portion of the vehicles weight.
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
If the N101 shock has 3.6" less travel than the N74L, how will you gain the N74L's "effect" by using a N101 shock?
Click to expand...

John, I measured 2 5/8" How did you get 3.6" of extra travel?

The shock extension works. You can also raise the bottom mount or lower the top one. The axle will still go down more. It is the upstroke that you have to be carefull with.
 
sleeoffroad said:
John, I measured 2 5/8" How did you get 3.6" of extra travel?

The shock extension works. You can also raise the bottom mount or lower the top one. The axle will still go down more. It is the upstroke that you have to be carefull with.
Click to expand...

You said 1 in on compression and 2.6 on extension? You know me? Am I visualizing this wrong?
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
If the N101 shock has 3.6" less travel than the N74L, how will you gain the N74L's "effect" by using a N101 shock?
Click to expand...

Shotts,
It only has 1.6" of total travel, the N74L is 1" longer compressed than the N101, not shorter. It does have 2.6" of droop though. If you extend the length of the N101 by 2", you'll gain 2" of droop. At the same time, you extend the compressed length by 2" making the N101 1" longer than the N74L. So you have to have enough bump stock that the N101 doesn't compress too much. With this method, you gain 2" of droop while giving up little on the compressed end because the extended bump stops limit the compressed end anyways.
 
sleeoffroad said:
John, I measured 2 5/8" How did you get 3.6" of extra travel?

The shock extension works. You can also raise the bottom mount or lower the top one. The axle will still go down more. It is the upstroke that you have to be carefull with.
Click to expand...

I'm too slow, Christo beat me to it.
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
If the N101 shock has 3.6" less travel than the N74L, how will you gain the N74L's "effect" by using a N101 shock?
Click to expand...
I'm last but since I wrote, I'll post it...

Let's say hypothetically:

Shock "A" (shorter one)
compressed length is 15"
extended length is 26"
Bumpstops hit when shock length of 18"

Shock "B" (longer one)
compressed length is 16"
Extended length is 28.6"
Bumpstops hit when shock length of 18"

Adding a 2" Shock Extension to shock "A" will EFFECTIVELY give you:
compressed length of 17"
Extended length of 28"

So, the bumpstop will still hit when the shock is at a length of 18" but the extended length will almost equal the longer shock (28" vs. 28.6").
 
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Mr. Slee: I'm surprised you didn't ask me about the grey color marks on the rear of your (my) bumper? The Moab Marks are finally getting painted tomorrow. :D :D
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
OK, I got it now. Pictures don't even work for me! :D
Click to expand...

Phew!! Well, the important part, like Christo said, is to make sure shocks don't bottom out and the springs don't fall out.
 
sleeoffroad said:
OK, you have to realise that in real world conditions, you will probably compress the bumpstop by a good 1.5" or more. In the above situation, how much more uptravel did the shock have?

Is this a test? With the bumpstop there....none?

Oh, I forgot, your truck does not see real world wheeling, so we may be ok :D
Click to expand...


I know. That's why I figured your bumper would do. ;p
 
The job's complete. Steel retaining clips were welded onto each spring base (just in case they might pop out).

We retained the spring on the inside side right over the axle. At this spot the spring stays next to the base even when flexed out (because the spring bends as it stretches). This way there will be little (if any) "hold" on the spring so that the spring top doesn't unseat either (keeping leftover down-force on the axle).

This might be the best performance mod I've done. Full story here:
http://shottscruisers.smugmug.com/Vehicle Specs and Modifications/117861
 
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OK. Comparo pics: I'm at this trail more than any other. I thought on different occasions I'd pose on this huge rock to see how my overall flex is. Climbing it also shows a great test of stability. It's common practice for rigs to use this rock. Each time I drove as far up as I could without lifting a wheel.

Pic 1 is my 80...L-shocks...3.5" lift. I went up until the truck got a little unstable. Any higher and I might have lifted that rear wheel. So, I stopped and shot the pic.

Pic 2 was my 100...3-inch lift...with 100-series N-shocks...3" lift. Notice it couldn't even get near as high is the 80? It was also much more wobbly. That was as high as I could go. I got nervous because it wasn't stable. Had I had to stop here or my right rear wheel would be off the ground. I was posing remember...if I could have got higher I would have. Oh, I wanted that 100 to hit the top like the 80 did....I remembered. THIS is what gave me the idea for L-shocks.

Pic 3...is a rear view of the 80 on that day. This compares to the one pic I got of the 100 with L-shocks.

Pic 4...is my 100 NOW with L-shocks. It easily drove to the top of the rock and with total stability. There was never any wobbling. It is higher on the rock than my 80 was though that could be a slight placement difference. I'm sure the 80 can top the rock too though I must say on these pics it was getting unstable. This could be the fact there's not weight on the 80 and the weight on the 100 stabilizes on this climb?

One other thing I've noticed. Since the rear end stays planted now it puts more force on the front shocks and they compress much easier despite cranked T-bars. It used to be RARE for me to bottom out the front. Now, it's not. The whole truck is far more stable.

26681772-L.jpg

25989454-O.jpg

26681769-L.jpg

53637603-L.jpg
 
I still don't see why it would be more stable? In that case you would roll to the driver side. If you lifted the passenger side rear tire (prior to the L shock) why would it be more stable. Until you reach the rooll-over point (which I believe to be the same for both cases), all the would happen is that you can fall back to the side where the tire is lifted.

The weight on the truck is still the same, the wheel is just not on the ground. Yes, you will loose traction earlier, but I can not see the stability issue. It might feel more stable since it won't have a tire lifted, but I don't think it is.

Also, I bet if you installed the bumpstops before the L shocks, you would have found the the DS rear would hit the bumpstop and push the body over to the PS and make the front end work better.

It would be interested to take two truck on exactly the same line and postion on that rock and meaure the distances on the front axle. I think you might find that the bumpstop is what is pushing you over.

The only way to get that truck more stable (ie, level body) in that situations is to have a front end that flexes better.

I do believe that your wheel lifting is reduced, but that does not translate to stability if it is limited to the rear. However some of us like to drive on three wheels. :D
 
I am (obviously) not an expert, but in a situation where a vehicle is "teetering" with a single rear wheel, say, 5 inches off the ground and is getting closer to rolling over ...

If that tire`s weight (and axle/drum etc..) is instead perhaps, only 2 inches or even just touching the ground...wouldnt the center of gravity be lower, thus giving it a bit more "stability" or a less teetering feeling ? I know a rim/tire/brake/axle doesnt weigh a ton....but the LOWER the weight is to the ground, the better ... right?

Although the vehicle`s weight has not changed, if SOME of that weight is lower than it was (previously), it would be/feel less tippy..( at least on that corner)

It sure seems as though as SOON as one of my tires starts going skyward, the less stable the whole rig feels...

Please put me in my place on this.... :confused:
 
.6" extra travel would make no noticable difference to stability, though "if" the valving is different, it may help control movement.

Because of his bump stop spacer, his shock change has netted him 1.6" extra droop, but only .6" extra travel from what he had, by limiting the up travel to stop the shock bottoming on compression with 50mm bump stop spacers.
 
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