That is really damn cheap.
I'm waiting on a 280ah lishen lifepo4 set from China now. Supposed to be here by next month.
I'm waiting on a 280ah lishen lifepo4 set from China now. Supposed to be here by next month.
DIY LiFePO4 battery install under ARB drawer wing (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter sdnative
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@sdnative How's this setup holding up?
I've been researching and the EVE LF105 (like yours) seems to be the best fit for this space. I have the Landshark Reef drawers but the space is similar to yours with the ARB drawer. Planning to just do a simple 4S configuration with EVE LF105 and the Overkill Solar BMS.
Did you find a need for the Victron shunt vs just using the Bluetooth app on the BMS?
I've been researching and the EVE LF105 (like yours) seems to be the best fit for this space. I have the Landshark Reef drawers but the space is similar to yours with the ARB drawer. Planning to just do a simple 4S configuration with EVE LF105 and the Overkill Solar BMS.
Did you find a need for the Victron shunt vs just using the Bluetooth app on the BMS?
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So far so good. The cell pairs seem to be holding balance nicely. I check them periodically, I just checked them now and this is what I measured:
+ pole
3.284
3.288
3.285
3.284
- pole
total voltage (pole to pole): 13.14V
not sure what SoC that corresponds to as I haven't been keeping track.
I need to pull the cover off and check the torque on the busbars. I figure that is an annual maintenance thing.
I wired a toggle switch to the BMS remote terminals so I can turn off the BMS if needed.
I like the SmartShunt, but it is really only useful for current measurement when actively charging or discharging. The parasitic draw of the system components (BMS, BatteryProtect, TinyTrack TNC, etc) cause the capacity / SoC measurement of the shunt to not be accurate if I don't run the truck and charge/discharge regularly. The low amount of current from these parasitic loads are so low the shunt doesn't really measure them accurately but they are enough to draw down the battery slightly over time. Another plus of the Victron shunt is I can use the same app as the Orion charger which is convenient.
I could use the BMS for the things I use the Victron shunt for, but I don't believe the BMS uses a shunt to measure current flow, so not as accurate. Maybe good enough though?
Only issue I have had so far is some of the nuts came loose on the distribution components (fuse holders mainly). Some locktite or nylock nuts would probably solve that problem.
I think a 4S setup (100Ah) would have been fine for my use, but I bought 8 cells so I put them to use. The other costs (fuses, distribution, etc) would be the same, so you are not saving money there by using 4 vs 8 cells. But there are advantages using 4S, such as being easier for the BMS to balance and detect a faulty cell. If one of my cells were to fail I would convert to 4S and have some spare cells. I would recommend you get at least one spare cell in case one is bad or fails.
Good luck. Post some pics when you get it finished.
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I just got done with a similar install in my 100 series. Used the new Chins 100ah heated LiPo battery with Victron Solar & DC DC charger. It appears to work great!
Is there any concern for voltage drop from the start battery to the DC-DC charger leading to issues? Like if the charger is sensing the voltage lower than it truly is would this cause issues? What gauge wire did you run to the start battery from the charger?
Voltage drop on long runs can cause LiFePO4 arrays to not reach full charge, aka 100%, but you typically won't see much voltage drop. The bms manages the battery. Lowest you'll see without a DC-DC charger is about 98% SOC in my experience, aka not worth the extra expense.
^^ voltage drops in simple circuits should usually resolve themselves when charging, simply because as a battery gets close to fully-charged, the charging current decreases, which in turn decreases the voltage drops in the circuits until voltage just about equalize everywhere when the battery is full. It may take longer but it'll get there. Now if you have a DC-DC -which admittedly I don't know much about- it seems to me that the feed voltage should matter even less since the benefit of a (good?) DC-DC charger is -I think- that they can raise the voltage to charge something at a higher voltage than the source itself.
Exactly! DC-DC charger voltage is regulated by the device, so if it drops then it compensates. My system above has been running flawless over the past few months, including a week long trip to UT where it handled an electric blanket via the inverter on max each night along with coffee grinder, RC cars and even a 800W electric heater for 30 mins!
How are some of you securing the battery to your drawers? I see that @sdnative is using plumbing strap. But I'm curious about others. I've got a Trekboxx system arriving in a couple months and I would really like a way to secure a Battleborn battery under the DS wing and make it secure. Planned electrics are 60L fridge, ham radio, GMRS radio, several USB outlets, scene lights. If I can find a small enough charger/inverter to fit in a wing, then maybe a 120V outlet.
I'm also going back and forth on the Victron equipment versus Redarc. I like the idea of having a monitor in the back (Victron smart monitor or Redvision display). But maybe that's not really necessary? I really don't want to be glued to my phone to see the SOC/DOC numbers while I'm trying to unplug in the wild.
Thanks for the advice!
I'm also going back and forth on the Victron equipment versus Redarc. I like the idea of having a monitor in the back (Victron smart monitor or Redvision display). But maybe that's not really necessary? I really don't want to be glued to my phone to see the SOC/DOC numbers while I'm trying to unplug in the wild.
Thanks for the advice!
Redarc and Victron are both great. I purchased a Victron mppt solar charger years ago, so I was already on board with Victron before I purchased a dc-dc charger and shore power charger. That said, after buying all 3 components, I'm still in for less money than a Redarc bcdc charger, which doesn't have shore power.
As far as keeping an eye on your charge state, my BMS is Bluetooth capable, so I can check there and I added a cheap shunt monitor to the side of my battery case that I can peak at without my phone. I couldn't justify the expense for the Victron shunt.
My diy battery is in a harbor freight plastic ammo can held down with a ratchet strap in the rear of the truck. I wanted my battery easily removable as one unit for when temps get really high here in Phoenix. No sense in leaving it in the truck when not in use. I can always run my fridge off the truck battery for trips to Costco or whatever using the Victron dc-dc charger.
As far as keeping an eye on your charge state, my BMS is Bluetooth capable, so I can check there and I added a cheap shunt monitor to the side of my battery case that I can peak at without my phone. I couldn't justify the expense for the Victron shunt.
My diy battery is in a harbor freight plastic ammo can held down with a ratchet strap in the rear of the truck. I wanted my battery easily removable as one unit for when temps get really high here in Phoenix. No sense in leaving it in the truck when not in use. I can always run my fridge off the truck battery for trips to Costco or whatever using the Victron dc-dc charger.
@joltman, have you asked Dave (Trexxbox) about fabbing/including a mount for your LFP battery?
Per above I don't think you can go wrong with either Victron or Redarc. Having said that I have had perfect results with all my Victron equipment over the past several years.
But, just know, the Victron SmartSolar MPPT controllers, with built-in Bluetooth, have a shorter useful range than the BlueSolar MPPT controller + Bluetooth dongle. This may/maynot be be important to your application. With our little Escape trailer, with the controller mounted in the nose box of same, I couldn't get the BT to extend to the cab of either my LC or LBZ whereas the useful range using BlueSolar + BT dongle provides substantially more range (like 3-4x).
Having said that, if you plan to utilize Victron's GX display then know, with BlueSolar unit, its either Bluetooth or GX whereas the SmartSolar controllers with their resident Bluetooth capability allow both Bluetooth and GX connectivity to occur simultaneously.
Although I'm using a Sterling BB1260 B2B charger that has a built in cooling fan, know the Victron DC-2-DC charger is passively "cooled". They can run very hot so plan accordingly by leaving plenty of air space around it as well as mounting it vertically per Victron's recommendations. Additionally, you may want to incorporate a small computer fan with a temp controller to provide better ventilation/cooling for it...
Per above I don't think you can go wrong with either Victron or Redarc. Having said that I have had perfect results with all my Victron equipment over the past several years.
But, just know, the Victron SmartSolar MPPT controllers, with built-in Bluetooth, have a shorter useful range than the BlueSolar MPPT controller + Bluetooth dongle. This may/maynot be be important to your application. With our little Escape trailer, with the controller mounted in the nose box of same, I couldn't get the BT to extend to the cab of either my LC or LBZ whereas the useful range using BlueSolar + BT dongle provides substantially more range (like 3-4x).
Having said that, if you plan to utilize Victron's GX display then know, with BlueSolar unit, its either Bluetooth or GX whereas the SmartSolar controllers with their resident Bluetooth capability allow both Bluetooth and GX connectivity to occur simultaneously.
Although I'm using a Sterling BB1260 B2B charger that has a built in cooling fan, know the Victron DC-2-DC charger is passively "cooled". They can run very hot so plan accordingly by leaving plenty of air space around it as well as mounting it vertically per Victron's recommendations. Additionally, you may want to incorporate a small computer fan with a temp controller to provide better ventilation/cooling for it...
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@spressomon Thank you for all this info! I did contact David about the possibility of a battery tray. He was saying that the newer design of the TrekBoxx might not accommodate a full sized battery under the wing, but he was going to check for me. If so, then he and I will talk about a battery tray. Also thanks for pointing me at the BlueSolar MPPT controller. This would work with the Cerbo GX so I wouldn't have all those BlueTooth devices being so chatty.
I was doing some homework on Victron again this morning. The cons:
I was doing some homework on Victron again this morning. The cons:
- It's more physical connections (screw terminals, lugs, etc). This could be a problem if there are bad crimps or loose connections.
- It's modular. It's more space for the same "features" as the RedArc BMS30. The LC200 doesn't have a ton of space in the cargo area (boot) to begin with. And with the size of these components, and the way in which the TrekBoxx's cargo barrier attaches to the main drawer box, there isn't a ton of room on the side shared with the 2nd row seats. Looking at @sdnative mounting picture earlier in the thread and I get worried if there's enough space. I'm trying to wrap my brain around the best way to fit stuff either in the wings or on that "backside". In the CarAV world, they create an "amp board" that is a board that is cut to fit the dimensions of it's final home and they mount all their accessories and wiring to that board. I wonder if that's the way to go here? I do have several devices I need to power and they need to be mounted somewhere.
- Bluetooth. As @spressomon pointed out above, BT is finicky due to environmental situations or distance. BT is on the 2.4GHz spectrum and can be interfered with by 2.4GHz WiFi devices.
- With all the options presented by each device, it can be easy to misconfigure a charge profile.
- It's modular and cheaper. I can add components as I need/budget allows. If I'm not planning on solar at the moment, I don't have to install that MPPT controller. I would be installing the DC2DC charger, and potentially a shore charger. I could then maybe add a Cerbo GX with screen to the back D pillar. This would give me the details I'd want visible so my wife could also understand the battery situation. I've always liked the idea of a device that does a single job and does it really well.
- Victron has a better MPPT charge profile than RedArc. Admittedly, I am only regurgitating what I've read in this thread. That will take some more homework to verify.
- The Cerbo GX has an ethernet and WiFi option (only 2.4GHz, which kinda stinks). This is interesting because this can be used to monitor the battery system from anywhere on earth (within WiFi/ethernet range).
- All components are wrapped into a single BMS30 package. If one component fails, whose to say the rest of that device won't fail.
- Expensive. If I want BlueTooth functionality, I'd need the $1600 BMS30 with Redvision display. That's a lot of dough.
- Potentially not as good of a solar controller.
- No WiFi for sitting at home or in storage.
- Smaller device footprint for 3 charge methods. This also means more mounting space for radios and inverter.
One other mention if you think you want to combine charge current from both the alternator and solar simultaneously: Using a Victron B2B charger + any of their BT enabled (with BT dongle or with built in BT; BlueSolar and SmartSolar respectively) one can easily create a smart network ala the Victron app that will allow both charging schemes to function without competing with each other. There have been more than several occasions, where I needed to combine charge currents from the Sterling BB1260 and the Escape's rooftop solar. Your application is very different than mine but I thought I'd mention it just the same.
Whereas, with my Sterling BB1260 I need to choose between it and my Escape's rooftop solar charge input; can't run both simultaneously otherwise they compete with one another. Non-Victron devices, of course, are not compatible with the networking feature. At the end of the day and knowing what I know today, I would have selected a Victron 20A/30A Orion B2B charger and added another in parallel as needed instead of the Sterling. Going with all Victron has similar attributes as Apple in the PC world (along with some downsides of course). Such is life.
Whereas, with my Sterling BB1260 I need to choose between it and my Escape's rooftop solar charge input; can't run both simultaneously otherwise they compete with one another. Non-Victron devices, of course, are not compatible with the networking feature. At the end of the day and knowing what I know today, I would have selected a Victron 20A/30A Orion B2B charger and added another in parallel as needed instead of the Sterling. Going with all Victron has similar attributes as Apple in the PC world (along with some downsides of course). Such is life.
Speaking of Victron Orions, admittedly this probably isn't the best forum thread for this question but might be relative to you @joltman since you are weighing your brand direction: The Orion chargers are notorious for running very hot especially without copious amounts of forced air flow. For those with Redarc B2B chargers: How hot do they get?
Once the Orion reaches 75C it will cut back on current flow...
Once the Orion reaches 75C it will cut back on current flow...
This is good info to have. I'm doing some homework on adding a temp controlled fan. However, if I can put the charge controllers on the "back" of the drawers, then there might be enough open air to cool passively.
FWIW, the steel & aluminum nose box on my Escape, where the Victron MPPT controllers, 400A LFP battery, etc., are located gets hot especially during the hotter late spring, summer and early fall months so I added a forced air fan controlled by a simple and inexpensive temperature on/off controller (below) using a 12v "computer fan" and it has paid dividends helping to keep the ambient air temps down enough to keep the LFP happy.
Of dozens++ of comments/feedback I've read about the Orions and heat buildup, forced air movement seems to be the rule keeping them below their 75C temp charge cut-back/off. But you probably have enough real estate and air volume around the charger(s) to make adding them later easy enough.
(Amazon product ASIN B011VGAPOC)
Of dozens++ of comments/feedback I've read about the Orions and heat buildup, forced air movement seems to be the rule keeping them below their 75C temp charge cut-back/off. But you probably have enough real estate and air volume around the charger(s) to make adding them later easy enough.
(Amazon product ASIN B011VGAPOC)
Can you explain a bit more on this topic? What do you mean by "compete"?
This is one example, but all the diagrams I've seen have the solar and alternator connecting to the same DC bus. The DC-DC charger is to deal with the newer style "smart" alternators, not to prevent "competing charging sources" AFAIK.
Camper Wiring Diagram w/ 3000w Inverter & 600-1200w Solar
3000w Inverter, 600-1200w Solar, Battery to Battery Charger, Shore Power, 600Ah Lithium Batteries
www.explorist.life
I need to get some empirical data around this but I'm certainly not the first to experience the phenomena of having two charge sources somewhat cancel/limit each's ability to supply max charge current to the battery.
Typically and consistently when towing and using the Sterling BB1260 I get larger current flow through when the roof top solar is not connected (Victron MPPT controller) to provide charge current. Likewise, when I have the BB1260 disconnected, again while towing, and using the rooftop solar only the charge gains are bigger than when both charge sources are combined.
Typically and consistently when towing and using the Sterling BB1260 I get larger current flow through when the roof top solar is not connected (Victron MPPT controller) to provide charge current. Likewise, when I have the BB1260 disconnected, again while towing, and using the rooftop solar only the charge gains are bigger than when both charge sources are combined.
