hydro assist and hy steer arms Q's

[snowboardonsnow]

Two questions.

First off if you have a steep drag link angle can you run hydro assist? what "gives" when the suspension travels? I would have to assume fluid in the power steering box? or axle shift? Also would that be incredibly hard on your tre's and fluid?

Second, what are all your guys who are soa and have hy-steer arm doing about your up travel? I don't understand how your tie rod does not hit your pitman arm? As it stands now my tie rod easily gets "even" or above my drag link end at the pitman joint with stock arms.
If I was to get hy steer arms to get a better drag link angle so I can run hydro assist my tie rod would slam into my pitman arm. How are you guys getting around these problems?

Picture

 

['74 UA FJ]

My tie rod is behind the axle. Ram mounted to diff and tie rod. Drag link isn't even close.

The ram should be mounted to the tie rod, not the drag link.

 

[PKP80]

My Ram is attached to my drag link and tied to the frame side on the inner wall. No troubles with up travel or droop b/c of where it is mounted. Prefer it to the tierod.

 

[snowboardonsnow]

My tie rod is behind the axle. Ram mounted to diff and tie rod. Drag link isn't even close.

The ram should be mounted to the tie rod, not the drag link.

Of corse the ram should be mounted to the tie rod. Do you have cross over steering? 40s must be different.

Anyways if you have cross over steering referring to Q #1 and you have a steep angle you still have a 'triangle' side 1 tie rod side 2 drag link side 3 fluid. if tre and dre try to get close to each other either A fluid will need to be displaced out of the ram (which then fights the ps box) or the pitman arm will need to turn (which then fights the ram)

 

[snowboardonsnow]

My Ram is attached to my drag link and tied to the frame side on the inner wall. No troubles with up travel or droop b/c of where it is mounted. Prefer it to the tierod.

Oh... I will have to think about that but with a steep DL angle like our I guess that will work huh? no triangle issues. Yes like you I would love to have it to the tie rod but I guess its not possible with our setups. Is that why you went to the DL?

The only problem with that is you must have bad bump steer? right now my steering wheel just jerks to the side but the truck goes perfectly straight. I would have to imagine with the ram like that does the truck jump to the right?
btw (I am sure you know) your tie rod is bent

 

['74 UA FJ]

I have 4x4 labs high steer. My drag link is pretty much parrallel to the ground..

 

[snowboardonsnow]

I have 4x4 labs high steer. My drag link is pretty much parrallel to the ground..

Can you post a picture? If I did those arms it would get my DL way closer to parallel but then I would run into the TR hitting the pitman arm.

Interested in how your is setup because if I could get my tie rod behind my axle that would take care of that problem.

Thank you guys by the way, fast responses.

 

['74 UA FJ]

My Ram is attached to my drag link and tied to the frame side on the inner wall. No troubles with up travel or droop b/c of where it is mounted. Prefer it to the tierod.

That's an interesting steering setup. How many times has it broken?

 

['74 UA FJ]

I have 4x4 labs high steer. My drag link is pretty much parrallel to the ground..

Can you post a picture? If I did those arms it would get my DL way closer to parallel but then I would run into the TR hitting the pitman arm.

Interested in how your is setup because if I could get my tie rod behind my axle that would take care of that problem.

Thank you guys by the way, fast responses.

Here..

 

[snowboardonsnow]

with those double arms I bet it hasn't.

Still thinking about the hydro and cross over. Even with a flat DL when you droop and compress does the fluid react that fast? (freeway bumps say) considering the fluid won't compress or expand I still don't understand what gives in the system? the fluid just force its way through the PS box? My brain is hurting on this one.


got the pic
G's where do you guys get this stuff? haha

 

['74 UA FJ]

You're thinking too hard.

 

[bustanutley]

Basically, the pump doesn't really apply pressure to either side of either piston when there is no steering input and fluid is aloud to travel freely thru the system. There is no mechanical connection between the ram and the steering shaft, only the tie rod which is mechanically connected to the steering box. When an input force is great enough, pressure is applied to one side of the system. To demonstrate this, hook everything up hydraulically, but leave the mechanical connection undone. With the engin running, steer the box, notice that the ram does not move untill you hit the stop on the box then the ram will move its full travel. If you have a poor setup with bump steer, with hydro assit, you either let the wheel jerk or you hold it steady and have the truck swerve on bumps with more force than before the addition of the ram.

And, my steering box and pitmit arm is in front of my tie rod:

 

[Tapage]

here is mine .. not the best pic but all my steering links are pretty leveled .. I attach ram to axle and to tie rod ..

 

[snowboardonsnow]

Basically, the pump doesn't really apply pressure to either side of either piston when there is no steering input and fluid is aloud to travel freely thru the system.

Ok that makes since now that I think about it... except I know where you tap your box when you are not steering has equal pressure on each side. But when my axle goes up and the pitman arm tries to turn (because of DL angle) doesn't that open the rotary valve and put pressure against the ram opposite of the way angle change is making the pitman arm turn?

here is mine .. not the best pic but all my steering links are pretty leveled .. I attach ram to axle and to tie rod ..

Tapage thats where my second Q was. On these 60s, does your Tie rod not hit your pitman arm when flexed? I think I need to leave mine or completely change everything. Because with hy steer arms I think I would.

 

[bustanutley]

Ok that makes since now that I think about it... except I know where you tap your box when you are not steering has equal pressure on each side. But when my axle goes up and the pitman arm tries to turn (because of DL angle) doesn't that open the rotary valve and put pressure against the ram opposite of the way angle change is making the pitman arm turn?

In practice, you need to view it the opposite way: when the suspension travels it will force the pitmit to turn, in which case you either resist that motion at the wheel or not. If you resist then the rotary valve is opened will help you apply pressure for “turning” even thou you aren’t turning, the pressure is or coarse applied both in the steering gear and the ram. The only thing that changes when you add hydro assist is that you effective enlarge the piston size of your box and in turn you get more power, nothing else changes. There will be a ‘small’ amount of force from the ram resisting movement when the rotary valve isn’t applying a pressure differential one way or another which is just fluid moving effectively from one side of the ram to the other, but the pump isn’t creating this force. Without a pressure differential one side to the other, the ram is effectively just a big steering damper, to get a feel for how much force it takes to move the ram without assistance from the boosted system, steer the truck with everything hooked up and the axle off the ground with the engine off,that will answer your question.

The truth is, however, that you should do what you can to eliminate your bump steer in the first place.

 

[snowboardonsnow]

The truth is, however, that you should do what you can to eliminate your bump steer in the first place.

Ok thank you, I can definitely picture it now. Best thing to do is just allow the wheel to turn (I dont think I could stop it with the ram is on there) and not allow the torsion bar to open the rotary valve.

Any Ideas on how I can get my drag link flatter? I figure there have got to be some 60s or 40s with 60s axles out there that have gotten around this problem.

 

[boots4]

Running High steer arms will place your connection points higher with the TRE's mounted on top. Raising these points will reduce the angle on your drag link. Another way is a drop pitman arm (not sure those are really available for cruisers) or flatter lift springs.

 

[snowboardonsnow]

Here..

Is this what you are running?
Looks like probably what I need.
4×4labs Frombe Steer – High Crossover Steering System | 4×4 Labs

 

['74 UA FJ]

Yeah.

 

[Tapage]

Tapage thats where my second Q was. On these 60s, does your Tie rod not hit your pitman arm when flexed? I think I need to leave mine or completely change everything. Because with hy steer arms I think I would.

Again not the best pic .. but if you look closely you will see the pitman end and the drag ling with enough space ..

http://4x4panama.com/foro/gallery2/...DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3759&g2_serialNumber=3

Note: big pic .. so you can appreciate in detail.