Help me make new beds for the 60's LBP

[Awl_TEQ]

As many of you may know I am building a complete bed for my 1978 FJ45 LPB (LWB). I have a 78 bed to measure and copy. I have some programming and proof of concept samples to make but I am about ready to start. My request to my fellow Mudders is this - What is different between the 63-67'ish beds and the late 70's beds?? They look the same in photographs online but I have never seen one up close.

Specifically:

1 - are they the same overall size?
2 - is the rear axle in the same location for the wheel arch?
3 - is the frame the same and have the same mounting bracket location?
4 - are the taillights the same and further is the rear valence the same with regards to the taillight mounting. I am aware of the three and four hinge tailgates.

Any experience out there I could tap into? What years saw major changes to the line - what changed?

Ideally, if there is anyone in the Calgary area with an early model I would be very interested to go at your truck with a tape measure. Send me a PM or post up. Or if anyone has their bed off right now could you please measure center to center on each set of mounts across the frame. Also if you tie a string across each set with the string centered on the mounting hole then measured the distance between each string that would tell us the distance between each crossmember on the bed. My 78 has 5 sets of mounts for 10 total. Also the three sets rearward of the axle are "level" with each other (you can set a straight edge across them along the length of the truck) and so are the two sets ahead of the axle though they are 3/8" lower. This is the info I really need to ensure the bed would fit. If there are major structural differences from early to late models I would really need to see one.

The three rear mounts

The two front mounts


I am wanting 60's info because I am also building a bed for another member who's frame is a 63. I will PM him too for measurements. If we can get some info from a few different years it would help make an accurate picture of what's what.

Thanks in advance

Kevin

 

[whitey45]

Kevin, I had a 77 canadian truck that I put an early bed onto and it fit.But It was a flat bed I had built to fit the early 65ish truck.The front mounts were the same and it did pick up the rear mounts as well.Again this was a flatbed I built to fit the factory frame mounts.Hope this helps..

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Ok

so a flat bed built for a 65ish truck bolted to a 77

any more confirmations out there??

Kevin

 

[Juha]

box from bj-45 (1982) didn`t fit to hj-45 (1978) all mounts were different.

 

[Bear]

Kevin,

Briefly,

Rear valences are different:
Taillamps and their widths changed E-1968, 1969-1974, and again 1975-1985.
Valence hinge holes changed with the hinges: earliest are vertical, then 1967 - 1974 narrow horizontal, then 1975 up wider horizontal.
Originally thick, tapped, loose, dual hinge plates behind each hinge, then later welded captive nuts to receive the hinges.
1975 up bed floors have bolt-down inspection panels set over cutouts in the floor pieces located between the wheel wells and the front panel.
At some point, later Canadian beds had running light cutouts on the lower rear sides.

Reflector styles and valence holes changed 1969.

Early-1967 bed mounts seem to match 1980-1984 bed mounts for the FJ45s, and I would guess probably the entire run from early to finish are interchangeable. I have no experience with the diesels.

For your production, it may be wisest to leave the valences uncut and undrilled for lights and hinges.

Ultimately I think it shouldn't be too hard for most folks to make whatever you produce, fit their specific application. Certainly if Toyota still produced the beds for dealer sales, the constant upgrading that manufacturers do, would make differences in fit and finish, so that by now, 35-45 years later, a factory-new bed would have differences from all earlier versions anyway.

Your project is interesting. Fixes for the beds have been long needed, since most of these pickups were heavily used, as was intended. Sadly, each of the few sheet metal providers has priced himself out of the business. With your sheet metal shop, and the CAD work you already are generating for your own use, if you could produce additional separate pieces during your production runs--the five floor panels, each side panel, the front panel, the rear valence, and the under-ribs-- you might find a healthy business in addition to your desire to produce complete beds. Creating the gate posts and stamping out the fender wells may be a different story. All-in-all, this could make you a terrific resource for guys on a budget, with some skills or a local body shop to finish their projects at less cost and on their home turf.

I think the prices you ultimately ask, to which all of us must add the shipping costs, should determine your relative success. Many of the pieces could be flat stacked for storage and flat packed for shipping savings.

I believe there is a market, if you're willing to provide the product.

Good luck with your endeavor.

MS

 

[Awl_TEQ]

box from bj-45 (1982) didn`t fit to hj-45 (1978) all mounts were different.

Juha - that plays into a note on the CCOT site where they sell the bed (for 5k!, 6k with a tailgate ) that says "78 and older only"

Rear valences are different:
Taillamps and their widths changed E-1968, 1969-1974, and again 1975-1985.
Valence hinge holes changed with the hinges: earliest are vertical, then 1967 - 1974 narrow horizontal, then 1975 up wider horizontal.
Originally thick, tapped, loose, dual hinge plates behind each hinge, then later welded captive nuts to receive the hinges.
1975 up bed floors have bolt-down inspection panels set over cutouts in the floor pieces located between the wheel wells and the front panel.
At some point, later Canadian beds had running light cutouts on the lower rear sides.

Reflector styles and valence holes changed 1969.

Early-1967 bed mounts seem to match 1980-1984 bed mounts for the FJ45s, and I would guess probably the entire run from early to finish are interchangeable. I have no experience with the diesels.

Excellent info - lots to digest thank you

Ultimately I think it shouldn't be too hard for most folks to make whatever you produce, fit their specific application. Certainly if Toyota still produced the beds for dealer sales, the constant upgrading that manufacturers do, would make differences in fit and finish, so that by now, 35-45 years later, a factory-new bed would have differences from all earlier versions anyway.

MS

Worst case, given a complete bed, the installer would have to remove a crossmember and relocate it. Maybe move the bracket on the box or shim for a height difference.

Your project is interesting. Fixes for the beds have been long needed, since most of these pickups were heavily used, as was intended. Sadly, each of the few sheet metal providers has priced himself out of the business.

I think the prices you ultimately ask, to which all of us must add the shipping costs, should determine your relative success.

The other guys had to pay for proper tooling that is specific to one part. I work at a custom sheet metal shop. We don't usually do vehicle parts, other than the odd hot rodder bits, but rather cases, computer chassis, tanks etc. Our tooling is designed to be multiuse by breaking down the process into separate elements. The drawback is that body panels often have embossed ribs and shapes pressed in. With a little planning and careful welding I can usually imitate the original part but sometimes I just can't do it for a reasonable cost. The beauty of the 45 bed parts is I can likely sell more than one and so spread the labor cost over several buyers and keep the cost down. It doesn't hurt that I have free access and use of the tools at work either. So I will make mounds of cruiser Karma by only charging for material and labor. My customers won't pay for my building or machinery (turret punch is $250k). Any profit will get recycled into my 45 project anyway.

Many of the pieces could be flat stacked for storage and flat packed for shipping savings.

Looking at my bed it seems it would be very easy to knock it down. The sides, front wall and tailgate will fit nicely on the floor and make it much smaller though still like 90" x 65" and 16" thick. I could also ship all the parts unassembled. Cross members loose from the floor, wheel humps and corner floors all loose. The problem is corrosion. I am currently making this all from cold rolled raw steel. 90% of our steel parts at work are raw steel that gets powder coated. I could make all the parts from satin coat (aka wipe coat or zinc plated) material but that stuff is very tough to weld safely and nicely. Many of my parts will have intricate welding to mimic the originals and the zinc coating will ruin it. My solution so far is to make sub assemblies from raw steel and then plate the whole thing. I have a supplier that can zinc plate the entire assembled bed in one piece. That means every nook and cranny, between plates and hidden spots is all zinc dichromate plated. There are a lot of hidden spots where you can't spray bed liner or even primer into.
If you don't want to ship a whole bed then I have a solution. I'll assemble the floor with cross members and wheel humps - the sides with front and rear posts - the front wall with it's end channels -- and you can put it together and seal your welds.

I'm tired of rambling

Any more info is appreciated

 

[Awl_TEQ]

So from what Bear says there were no rear side clearance lights on the sixties trucks like this



And the removable inspection panels in the front corners arrived in 75 like this - a little hard to see but there is a three ribbed panel with six machine screws



And the rear valence saw many changes. Early hinges (3) had vertical holes then 67-74 changed to horizontal holes then 75up to four hinges with wider horizontal hole pattern. Taillights also changed in width.



My inclination at this point is to make the clearance light a delete option. Customers could order with or without.

The inspection covers would also be a delete option. I could really use a picture of the front corner inside the bed on a 65-67 truck. Mine has the covers - I assume the floor there just has four ribs like the rear corner????? Do the corner sections have the phillips drive bolts down through the x-members?

There rear valence has too many variables. I am inclined to make it blank and let the user cut what he needs.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

An after thought - I intend to offer any single piece or combination of pieces you guys want. I will sell one mount or the whole bed assembled or the 35 odd parts all loose. It'll be a pain to price the different options but that's my problem.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Corrosion protection

I keep waffling between making parts from zinc coated steel ( a real PITA) or raw steel and primer or raw with zinc coating after assembly. Anybody have an opinion or other option. I could leave it all up to each buyer but I want to make some (a little) inventory so it would be good to know what people would want.

 

[71FJ40]

x2
zinc coated is real super PITA

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Raw with primer or just plain raw? If it's raw you just have to wipe off the mill oil and spray your own POR/ primer/ linex/ whatever. I've had raw steel lying around for three years that hasn't rusted but I'm in a high desert climate. I just wouldn't want the parts to rust en route to my customer. I guess each customer would have there own preference.

My preference is raw. Zinc will cost more for the end user, $500-600 for a whole bed. A quick splash of primer for those who want it maybe. The less I put into it the less it will cost and the more you can do your self (thereby keeping your costs down).

 

[65-fj45]

Here are the tailgate and side (without marker light) of a 65

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Nice truck 65-fj65!! Thanks for the pics. I see the tail lights are quite different - and the vertical bolt holes for the hinge to valence. If your out there with a camera again I wonder if you could snap inside the bed at the front corners. No rush, whenever you get a chance.


I have some shots for 71FJ40 of my 78 frame mounts...

 

[Awl_TEQ]

and two more...

 

[65-fj45]

i cannot get a pic of the front of the bed, i have a tool box bolted across the front of the bed floor .

 

[Awl_TEQ]

No worries - just wanted to see what the early ones look like with no inspection panel. Thanks again

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Some info from 71FJ40. His pic is from a 64 frame. The mounting locations are nearly identical save for the second set from the front. Notice the bolt hole is centered on the frame. Center to center is 34.75" across the frame. Ignore the tape.


And this is my 78 frame with the bolt outboard of the frame, center to center is 37.438" (7/16") across the frame.

 

[Henry James the 47th]

I'm not surprised that the '79 and later bed wouldn't fit on the earlier truck chassis, since there were lots of changes made to the sheet metal in '79 just with the cab.

The ultimate box would be made from Titanium sheet I guess, but nobody would pay for that...

 

[Awl_TEQ]

I have gathered that the 78 to 79 changeover saw many structural changes. No one has asked me yet about a post 78 bed yet but I'll eventually get the measurements for mounting together.

I could make it easily from aluminum of the same thickness as the steel but it would be very weak. If I up the thickness it would get quite expensive. Stainless of the same thickness would also be easy but expensive.

Kevin

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Mike posted this in my other thread refering to the little dimples on each side of the bed hooks.

Kevin, you may have already discussed this but those dimples are not on my early (1964) 3-hinge long bed. It is just smooth metal besides the hooks.

Thanks Mike - anybody know when these dimples entered production??? or is mikes unit an anomaly? PO mod/ repair?