Walbro Fuel Pump (1 Viewer)

[canucksafari]

Has anybody used on of these Walbro pumps as a secondary lift pump as a support to the lift pump in your rotary injection pump? Walbro Engine Waldro is a US company with head offices in Tuscon. So, they should be easy to source. I am told they make both 12V and 24V versions of their pumps.

I am looking at the Walbro FRD-11, as was recommended by a Troller in Australia. It is a pull through (not a vain) pump. Vain pumps won’t pull through, so if the pump fails you won’t get any fuel. The Walbro, similar to a Facet pump but much higher capacity. It can flow 55gph at 12psi and is good for around 10,000hrs. It will lift 305cm and can run dry for 4hrs. The other thing is the pump only kicks in on demand and has a check valve fitted to aid lifting and priming.

Any experience with this one or any comments of wisdom?

 

[roscoFJ73]

Has anybody used on of these Walbro pumps as a secondary lift pump as a support to the lift pump in your rotary injection pump? Walbro Engine Waldro is a US company with head offices in Tuscon. So, they should be easy to source. I am told they make both 12V and 24V versions of their pumps.

I am looking at the Walbro FRD-11, as was recommended by a Troller in Australia. It is a pull through (not a vain) pump. Vain pumps won’t pull through, so if the pump fails you won’t get any fuel. The Walbro, similar to a Facet pump but much higher capacity. It can flow 55gph at 12psi and is good for around 10,000hrs. It will lift 305cm and can run dry for 4hrs. The other thing is the pump only kicks in on demand and has a check valve fitted to aid lifting and priming.

Any experience with this one or any comments of wisdom?

Is your feed pump not working?

 

[canucksafari]

Yep, it is working fine. Although, I understand on the VE pumps they tend to be the weak link. I just though for around $70 it might be worth putting the pumping stress on the electric first. Also, even though I don't have a turbo yet, I have heard that the lift pump in the IP can have probs keeping up with increased fuel demand. Rosco, you recon it is BS and a waste of money?

 

[roscoFJ73]

Rosco, you recon it is BS and a waste of money?

Considering the feed pump sends 3/4 of the fuel back to fuel pump,I would say it does no need any more.

I dont know about Nissans but the 1HZ feed pumps can pump 54 litres an hour. Now if towing a a 2 ton caravan through mountains can use 25 litres and hour,I would say it still has plenty.
The rotary pumps use the fuel for coolling so they pump plenty more than needed.




My take on the extra pump issue is like this(and I maybe wrong).
There is a 1HZ owner who pops up on various aussie forums and when ever someone has a fuel pump problem ,he jumps up and says it needs a lift pump as if it is a panacea for all problems because it cured his problem.

He recommended it to someone and it turned out all it was the fuel tank solenoids were blocked

He gets a lot of attention because pump rebuilds are big $$$ but I have yet to see anyone that it helped.
He once told me I got ripped off by a shop and a lift pump would have fixed it.
He was so wrong its unbelievable.

Also the(denso) fuel pump only needs 7psi internally and about 2 psi in the fuel lines to be considered ok.
I think there maybe some adjustement for this.

My guess if the feed pump is worn out ,then the whole pump probably is worn as well. The 1st things to wear out on a Denso pump are the piston timer,plunger,and shaft bearing(not necessarily in that order)

My diesel shop owner says your Zexel pump should wear out quicker because it has 19mm shaft to the 1HZs 24mm shaft but it doesnt.
It has him stumped and he near on 60 years old and been in business for 30.

Typical feed pump in a rotary pump pic. Im not sure,but those vanes seem to be able to slide forward(from centrifical force) and take up any wear.
This would give them a long life if that is how they work

 

[canucksafari]

Thanks for your usual excellent and well detailed reply Rosco. By chance does this person go by Whitie or Chaz? Pobably not. I am sure like most urban legends, it doesn't take much for a myth to spread. Anyways, I won't be buying one of these unless I do an auxillary tank and will be saving my money for other needed (aka wanted ) items.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Thanks for your usual excellent and well detailed reply Rosco. By chance does this person go by Whitie or Chaz? Pobably not. I am sure like most urban legends, it doesn't take much for a myth to spread. Anyways, I won't be buying one of these unless I do an auxillary tank and will be saving my money for other needed (aka wanted ) items.

I dont know his name ,but he posts on Overlander,4wdAction and Outer Limits.

 

[Greg_B]

When I walked into a local injection pump rebuild shop, talked with "the" head pump rebuilder and asked about supplying Bosch VE pumps with a low pressure pusher pump his quote was "probably the best thing you can do for the VE pumps longevity".

RoscoFJ73; I agree, there are people on both sides of the camp on this, and it has been beat up in a few forums and mailing groups over the years. I think 80's cool has beat it up at one point too. Here is another thread with a few more links: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/32275-pusher-fuel-pump-walbro.html

Search the word "Walbro" in this section for lots of readying.

gb

 

[crushers]

i like a feeder pump and use them on my own rigs...

 

[roscoFJ73]

When I walked into a local injection pump rebuild shop, talked with "the" head pump rebuilder and asked about supplying Bosch VE pumps with a low pressure pusher pump his quote was "probably the best thing you can do for the VE pumps longevity".

RoscoFJ73; I agree, there are people on both sides of the camp on this, and it has been beat up in a few forums and mailing groups over the years. I think 80's cool has beat it up at one point too. Here is another thread with a few more links: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/32275-pusher-fuel-pump-walbro.html

Search the word "Walbro" in this section for lots of readying.

gb

Im still a sceptic
If you are using extra filtration or trying draw up sluggish cold fuel in freezing conditions,maybe its useful.
I know some competition wheelers with diesels use a 1 litre fuel tank fitted close to the injection pump for when they are at extreme,nose up,angles in winch challenges.

But overall ,if the feed pump cant keep up,then it needs repair and so will the rest of the pump.
All the pumps I have seen and heard of wear out where they compress the fuel for the injection.
Ive only seen one case on the net where the feed pump in a 1HD T needed repair and that was after being left for a long time with a trace of moisture that caused corrossion

My arguement is,and has always been that the feed pump has an overflow rate of 30-54 litres an hour ,which is somewhere between double and quadruple what a 1HZ or 1HD T could use in an hour.
How much more fuel do you need

Basically the "extra feed pump camp" must believe there is cavititation inside the injection pump and thus fuel starvation.
Im also curious as to how the pump rebuilder arrived at these concluions.

Im open to suggestions on how it could be proven either way
Im not interested in people saying "it feels like it has more power" or "it seems to run smoother"
They just sound like Hiclone or Magnets on the fuel line ads

 

[crushers]

cause the original pump only has to push the fuel into the system not suck it also from the take??
<and yes, it SEEMS to start easier and SEEMS to have quicker response>

 

[gilghana]

With regard to pusher pumps, I cannot comment on their use on a fit and functioning injection pump as I have never done it, but on failing pumps we often use them to get a bit more life before rebuilding them. As has been pointed out however by this time the pump is shot! We have found that a pusher pump can help with the massive flat spot that tends to develop (1HZ) with failing pumps as well as with hot starting which also becomes a real problem as the pumps wear and tolerances increase. However our workshop recently bought a Bosch test bench and we had a retired FIP specialist from Germany train our guys on detailed pump rebuilds. Turned out to be difficult to get this "old fashioned" knowledge of the black art of mechanical FIPs.

 

[denis]

Basically the "extra feed pump camp" must believe there is cavititation inside the injection pump and thus fuel starvation.
Im also curious as to how the pump rebuilder arrived at these concluions.

Once with a friend we played with a prefilter on his HDJ80, the filter was for a boat and rated at 50L/min or something like that. A couple other things were done meanwhile. After all the work has been done we went and started the truck only to find a very little ticking sound. After much research it appeared that some very tiny bubbling took place in the prefilter (it had a clear bowl). Everything was tight so an air leak was most likely out, which leaves us with cavitation ? Prefilter removed -tick tick gone.
Putting the whole system under pressure may help with supply line cavitation, if such thing can exist from factory. Cavitation in the internal feed pump also means less lubrication.

More recently, I started a KZJ70 which supposedly had fuel pump problems. The ting ran OK when gravity fed but was impossible to start when connected to the standard fuel system. Upon disassembly some rust damage and seized vanes were found in the feed stage of the pump, as well as some rust damage on the pressure plate. The plunger was spotless though.

I had a Peugeot 405 turbo diesel, which thanks to the air leaks in the filter head and accelerator lever on the pump, would be absolutely impossible to start without being gravity fed, but then would run brilliantly.

I have not tried an auxiliary feed pump yet but somewhat believe the feed stage of the VE pumps is the weak link.

HTH

 

[Spallet]

What is the the nominal pressure recommended by Toyota at the Ip feeder? I read that is 7psi max for VE pumps, so if the walbro has a 10psi would that affect the performance of the pump?

 

[ForealBoreal]

I'm planning on adding one just for the heck of it. I figure its a good idea.

 

[Greg_B]

What is the the nominal pressure recommended by Toyota at the Ip feeder? I read that is 7psi max for VE pumps, so if the walbro has a 10psi would that affect the performance of the pump?

I've heard the same number.

I know folks who have place the walbro pusher at the tank, and call it good.

I know of folks who have to use the 10psi pump as they were running a couple fuel filters in line, and could not get fuel inless they used the pusher. How much was left over at the inlet to the injection I don't recall. There might be reference to it on an old thread in this section...ala stickboy.

If it concerns you, get a pressure reducer guage, and set it to hit the back of the pump with a few psi at max load.

hth's

gb

 

[crushers]

i have run these on a number of trucks now with no issues but you WILL notice a change in performance.

 

[ForealBoreal]

is it a good idea to add one if you have un-modified boost?
or is it just over-kill. I just want to prevent my pump from working to hard.
I have heard that having one can reduce the wear on your injector pump

 

[crushers]

all you are doing is giving the pump a break from pulling the fuel from the tank and feeding the injection system.
turbo'd or not, it seems to help. i even find it helps with starting.

 

[roscoFJ73]

i have run these on a number of trucks now with no issues but you WILL notice a change in performance.

Some of those who fitted them didnt.
How much more fuel can you fit in a full fuel pump?

 

[roscoFJ73]

all you are doing is giving the pump a break from pulling the fuel from the tank and feeding the injection system.
turbo'd or not, it seems to help. i even find it helps with starting.

If the feed pump inside the injection pump draws 3-4 times as much as the pump can use and returns it to the fuel tank,it hardly needs help.

There is a fuel regulator on top of a rotary pump that diverts the fuel back to the tank. If the pump is starved it can be adjusted to give more fuel to the high pressure side of the pump.

If its makes a difference to starting ,its because the fuel pump is empty and is losing fuel through an air leak