1FZ-FE Rebuild Lessons learned/still learning

[LJHeisler80]

Fellow Mudders, thought I would start a thread on lessons leaned during my rebuild, and use as a tool to follow up on some nagging issues....

Lessons Learned:
1. Use IH8MUD.com, great resource - need to add a membership fee to the store tab. Still can't figure out how to "pay" my appreciation...Also, if you are considering a re-build you must check out Concrete Jungles thread.
2. IH8MUD is much faster on an Ipad, than on PC.
3. Don't, really Don't, put a gold star here...Don't skimp on the PHH hose....I took a short cut and just used hose clamps and a stock hose, and I have a drip....So what would have been a 5 min/$20 fix with the engine on the stand is now a 3 hour fix in a new yoga position. and it's more than a Pesky Heater Hose now...
4. CDan is a great source for OEM parts, and by far the best price...I used all OEM parts except for the pistons, hope that does not catch up with me. Even with aftermarket pistons, my total tab is approaching $3,000 (but includes new OEM radiator, water pump and PS pump and about $900 of machine shop time.)
5. Pulling whole drive train is the way to go...
6. Plastigauge is comforting, and worth the extra effort.
7. Fastenal is your your friend for replacement bolts/nuts/screws - especially those pesky Phillips head oil pump cover screws - replaced with nice torque screws, and also replaced the spark plug cover screws, and a-lot of other M#.##x##.
8. Didn't replace the bushing for the PS gear, but discussed it with machinist, and we checked after cleaning the engine without aggressive solvents, trusted his experience and he said it seemed ok to him... I will loose sleep over this, and now that the work is done, wish I had replaced bushing.
9. FPIG is awesome.
10. When started found no power, and wouldn't accelerate, and ex. manifolds became Toyota racing red...after a-lot of worry about engine build found out #2 plug wire was not connected, problem solved...
11. Almost forgot this one - really have to thank the guys over at Rams Cylinder Heads - out of St. Louis. They took my old head that was warped 35 thousandths and heat treated to back within specified tolerances, Decked the surface, reworked the valves and replaced all of the guides and then set the clearances (tipped the stems) for $450 plus shipping which was about $50, and gave me a three year unlimited mileage warranty! This saved the truck from a parting out program

Nagging issues #1:
Timing...Still working on this one...at 3 deg BTDC I get a Knock Sensor code (before I get out of the driveway) and truck is sluggish, especially at low end. At 8 deg BTDC still get a Knock Sensor code (within 5 miles) but engine runs ok. At 12 deg BTDC no knock sensor or any other codes but only ran it for 30 miles (worried about breaking in engine wrong), and engine runs great, with good power...Seems like something is wrong here. So will continue to be a lesson learning. (all degrees are with SST (Paper Clip) jumping terminals TE1 and E1 of the DLC1). Would really appreciate some thoughts here, have read the thread on advancing timing and it seems that there are a-lot of folks running at 8 deg...

So come on, Share what lessons you have learned during your rebuild and help me chase down some of the nagging issues as they come up...Let's start with the timing.

 

[bryson]

Cool idea for a thread.

Here is a link to get your silver star ("membership.")

https://forum.ih8mud.com/payments.php

Other than that, I have nothing useful to add...

 

[NLXTACY]

I had a bunch of things that I detailed on my thread. Nothing I "learned" per se that I can think of: https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/553208-engine-rebuilding-options-s-c.html

 

[Kernal]

Anyone know the process for heat treating the head to get it back in shape? Common practice, hit or miss??

 

[blkprj80]

Oh, man, excellent topic! I learned a LOT of stuff so far, and my "black project" still ain't running. And, I'm no longer in the black... I think I'm in the red about 5K so far.

Take lots of pictures, and then take some more.

Use Beno's list for rebuild suggestions, and add/subtract to your liking. https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/571954-1fz-fe-engine-rebuild-parts-list.html

I agree, ConcreteJungle's thread is VERY mandatory reading. I also liked Ardenyota's thread, very nicely done too.

The cap on the charcoal canister is just plastic. Mine was cracked and I thought it was dead. Underneath is a metal can probably in good condition, but the FSM tells how to check it. It might be stuck, but a bit of compressed air might unstuck it. YMMV.

Use Opal ARP studs. Cut 1/4" off the front two. You can do the measuring and calculations, but 1/4" is right on the money. I did the measuring and calculations and it's like 3/16 to 3/8, but 1/4" is perfect.

Use trimmed down sticky notes on edges of important pages in the FSM; mark things like Torque, Engine Index, etc.

If you figure out why some things are in certain places in the FSM, please write a book for the rest of us.

Take pictures of the throttle cables from above, before touching anything.

When torquing the front timing chain cover, make sure that deck surface is even! The dowels get it close, buuut...

FIPG is good stuff until you get it on your skin.

You don't get a radiator cap with a Koyo radiator.

Power wash the engine bay before you start.

Bag and tag everything (I wish I had dated tags as well). I used old business cards, sandwich baggies, and a sharpie. I didn't lose anything (for more than a day or so...).

The Haynes manual sucks ass and then some. Don't buy one even if you're "still waiting for your manual to arrive from that dude on ebay". You're better off if you're without and waiting. Be sure to get the electrical diagram manual (and the transmission manual if you can) when you buy your FSM.

Windex is nice to put water hoses on. Beware it doesn't stay slippery for long though. Warm hoses work much easier than cold.

Make sure you have 12 and 14mm 12 point sockets in both 3/8 and 1/2 drive. I was surprised that I didn't have anything of either in the shop, and I'm a half banana's mechanic. I had all of them in my tool kit in the trunk of my car of all places.
Craftsman stuff, but decent. Hmmm, that might be why my car fuel mileage isn't great, carrying more tools than the shop!

Get gearwrenches, angled head with direction selector in 10, 12, 14, and 17 mm. Don't buy a set, the LC uses these and maybe 8mm. Well, if you buy aftermarket bolts, you might need the other sizes.

Get a 3/8 cordless impact (3/8 square drive with the ring on the end) and a set of wobble sockets for impact (S-K). Shallow or deep? Pick one, you'll be ordering the other in a couple weeks. They're pricey, but big time savers for me.

Hose clamps. Re-use if OEM spring type and good. I left the clamps on the old hoses until I was ready to put on new hoses. Then I transferred the clamps in the same orientation as OEM although some ended up pointed in a different direction. The formed hoses all seem to have a white mark that points up. I like that feature.

The engine harness at the ECU is a bitch, but it is much easier to install the harness on an engine on a stand.

Use SAE J2076 for the power steering return lines to/from the paper clip. The factory spring clamps will fit this hose well.

If you separate the engine and transmission in the truck to pull the engine, make triple damn sure the torque converter separates from the engine. If it is tight, it will get cocked to one side and follow the engine out, leaving a trail of tranny fluid all across the shop floor. It takes about a half hour to soak all that s*** up and get rid of it. Okay, maybe a bit longer.

I'm sure I have a few more, but I need to get back to work on the "black project". Will it be running in 2012? Maybe...

 

[Pin_Head]

4. CDan is a great source for OEM parts, and by far the best price...my total tab is approaching $3,000

6. Plastigauge is comforting, and worth the extra effort.

4. Yes. Buy the OEM short block for $3,000 and skip the risk and drama of rebuilding an engine the first time. I am a big fan of OEM short blocks or long blocks if you can get them.

6. Plastigauge is mandatory. Having a tight or loose bearing can ruin all your effort and $3,000.

 

[80seriesnut]

I was going to say cant one buy the engine minus the head for like $3200.

 

[OGBeno]

I was going to say cant one buy the engine minus the head for like $3200.

You need a lot more than just the short block. There are a number of items that one would need to make a short block work.

I wrote up an engine rebuild list in a thread somewhere....It has all of that in there.

 

[concretejungle]

Thanks, i'm really glad that my thread has helped others!

Make sure when you put the distributor in you did't accidentally jump a tooth. I had that happen about 4 times when i was trying to hurry and finish the motor. Finally after being frustrated i called a friend over for their opinion. They reset the distributor and it was perfect. I guess i was just in a hurry and not noticing the mistake.

I also agree, while the motor is on a stand, DO IT RIGHT! Don't cut corners.

 

[LJHeisler80]

Take pictures of the throttle cables from above, before touching anything.

Make sure you have 12 and 14mm 12 point sockets in both 3/8 and 1/2 drive. I was surprised that I didn't have anything of either in the shop, and I'm a half banana's mechanic. I had all of them in my tool kit in the trunk of my car of all places.

Thanks, i'm really glad that my thread has helped others!

Make sure when you put the distributor in you did't accidentally jump a tooth. I had that happen about 4 times when i was trying to hurry and finish the motor. Finally after being frustrated i called a friend over for their opinion. They reset the distributor and it was perfect. I guess i was just in a hurry and not noticing the mistake.

Amen on the throttle cables, took me an hour to figure that little mistake out, and getting the middle cable on was pretty tricky until i figured out how to slide the assembly off the butterfly stem enough to rotate around.

You need at least 4 12MM sockets, they seem to run off and hide during the removal and install. Especially when your friends are helping...they love pockets, trays, under tires, etc...

Concrete Jungle - you are the man, can't say it enough...the time you spent documenting was invaluable. I have been thinking about the dizzy, perhaps that why my timing seems advanced? Possibly a tooth off. (I just cant get my head around the relationship between the crank, cams, and the dizzy) I have ordered a new roter and cap from CDan, and when it gets in I'm going to try it again, and if still not timing to spec. going to pull valve cover and see where the cams are lining up (be a good time to replace the PHH)...perhaps my timing chain is a tooth off on the crank....Hope not...but the advance timing is driving me crazy....When you jumped a tooth what were the effects? No start, rough running, advanced or retarded timing?

 

[concretejungle]

I don't think you can jump a tooth on the timing chain. On my truck it wouldn't start with the dizzy off one tooth. It would sputter and try to start, would eventually crank up and would be very rough.

 

[80seriesnut]

You need a lot more than just the short block. There are a number of items that one would need to make a short block work.

I wrote up an engine rebuild list in a thread somewhere....It has all of that in there.

I know there are a lot more things that would go into but I think buying the short block already built would be a big plus. On top of that wouldn't the short block come with some kind of warranty?

 

[jamisobe]

When my motor was taken apart the crankshaft timing gear was missing 3 teeth. If it wouldn't of come apart when it did I am sure that the 3 missing would have become 5. It seems that might start to mess with timing. At least until it lost another 2 teeth and the valves and pistons eventually came apart.

I have heard that others have found missing teeth as well. That's a little spookie for me. I have take extreme measures to reduce the chance of the timing chain stripping later in life.

 

[Kernal]

What caused the teeth to come off, got any photos??

 

[jamisobe]

What caused the teeth to come off, got any photos??

The prevailing theory is that the timing chain tensioner loosened up, combined with timing chain stretch.

I had the new gear shot peened and cryo processed along with the tensioner, the chain, and the cam sprocket (for good measure).

The metallurgist I worked with agreed that it started with the middle tooth breaking followed by teeth on either side. The logical progression would have teeth continue to break on either side.

 

[LJHeisler80]

Being that its a new chain and gears I don't think I have any broken teeth. But I know the truck runs better with the timing advanced to around 12 degrees. This makes no sense to me?

 

[concretejungle]

if you are that advanced it makes me think you are a tooth off with the dizzy.

 

[LJHeisler80]

if you are that advanced it makes me think you are a tooth off with the dizzy.

Ok, but if I was a tooth off wouldn't we just rotate the distributer cap to compensate?

The rotor makes one turn for every two turns of the crank. How does the rotation of the dizzy relate to the crank other than allowing the base of the distributer to attach to the head?

 

[concretejungle]

Keep the top off the distributor and as you line up the marks on the gear on the dizzy, watch where the top arm (sorry don't know the term for it) is and as you slide the dizzy into the block see if it moves. There is a pretty good picture in the FSM of how it's supposed to be if your motor is at TDC. That is another thing to check, you could be 180 degrees off top dead center.

Also, as far as i know, you can only rotate the dizzy and adjust the timing so far before it's not affective.

 

[blkprj80]

If you check the build thread in my signature, I have a picture of what my dizzy looked like at TDC1 before I pulled it. Should be on the first page, 2nd post, 6th picture down.