Opinions on tire sidewall strength

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80t0ylc

Hill & Gully Rider
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What are your experiences with tires on trails getting sidewall damage? I know a lot of folks reduce the tire pressure to get more traction. Initially, it went against logic for me because I figured, with less psi in tire, sidewalls would be weaker and more susceptible to damage.

Well last weekend I scouted a trail for a local club run for this weekend. A couple of weeks ago I had pulled of my load range E, M/Ts & installed a bargain set of used A/Ts. They are 4 ply tread & 2 ply sidewall & load range D, so they're capable of 65 psi with a 3k load on each tire. I'm running 30 psi. We have a lot of very sharp lava rock here in Central Oregon in places and this trail had it's share. The pucker factor increased as the sharp rocks seemed be multiplying while negotiating the obstacles. I was pleasantly surprised when I got back to the pavement. Scuffed sidewalls, but no cuts or gashes. In one instance, I got out and found why I couldn't turn my wheels to the right. The right front tire was jammed into a good sized rock.
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Now I'm beginning to think that sidewall strength, as well as traction, may be enhanced, on tires with flexible sidewalls by dropping the pressure. To illustrate my point, if you take a balloon and blow it up until it's full, it's very easy to pop. Take that same balloon, and only fill it 1/2 full. It takes a lot more effort to pop it.

And yes, I'm aware that tires and balloons are very much different. But, I think in this aspect, maybe they're not so different. At least in the concept.

There's always that hazard that's out there, that no matter what tire you're running, it'll slash your sidewall. Usually it's something hidden or at least very difficult to see.

I searched before starting this thread and couldn't find any that talked strategy and performance for different styles between A/T and M/T sidewalls. Just info like M/Ts perform better in mud and A/Ts are quieter and usually allow better fuel mileage. Some tires have 4 ply sidewalls while others just have 2 ply. 4 ply sidewalls would seem to give give better protection, but not flex as much. They'd handle weight better, but that's the only advantage I can see. Any other opinions or learning experiences that you'd care to share?
 
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Your analogy with the balloon is a good one. Lower pressures allow the tyre to wrap around the object and have some 'give' rather than the higher pressure which resists the object and allow the object to push into the tyre.
In the eastern side of Oz we have mainly rocky trails with plenty of sharp pointy rocks to have at your sidewalls. The people getting punctures are the ones with too high pressures.
Not only that they've got reduced traction and are the ones using excessive wheel spin to go where lower pressure simply drive smoothly up the trail.
Higher pressures generally lead to greater chipping and chunking of the tread aas well.

As for side wall strength there are differences between manufacturers, but generally not between AT and MT from the same manufacturer. Go for a LT construction as you have and you should have no worries.
I've used BFG ATs and Goodyear MTRs and there is a noticeable difference in the sag of the sidewall due to the thicker wall of the MTR. I ran BFGs at 26psi ,but I need to run the MTRs at 22 to get the same sag/footprint.
Never had a sidewall cut, fingers crossed :)

I'd suggest trying 25psi, and drop it as you need to.

Cheers
Duncan
 
I have a set of 35 inch Firestone M/T's and I Usually start around 20 psi when I'm at the offroad park, but then normally drop it down to 15 psi for extra grip on the rocks. At that low of a psi, I'm a little scared of poppin a bead, but so far I've been good, knock on wood. The extra 5 psi out of the tire really helps the sidewall flex and grip much better, IMO
 
The observation of the wheeling community in general is go low, and if you really want to get serious you'll need bead locks so you can go lower. Expedition types will try to make arguments about narrow tire contact patches and all that good stuff, but the audience of users who rock crawls simply disagrees. We want as much rubber at as low a pressure as possible. No single other factor makes as much difference as usage becomes more extreme.

My experience is most AT's lack the sidewall protection or strength of comparable MT's, BFG AT's probably being the worst although I imagine the stats are skewed because 5-8 years ago everybody was running them, but most AT's are perfectly fine strength wise for most wheeling.

Carry a spare and the trail will teach you. I have never blown a tire in any size or type on any rig, but we have more smooth granite than sharp stuff in Colorado.
 
We wheel in sharp rock, iron wood sticks, etc, pretty much unavoidable. My observation agrees, most of the cut tires had too much air pressure for the conditions. Plus low pressure rides SO much nicer, my wife pretty much demands that we air down as soon as we hit dirt.
 
I always knew that you could air down for traction and for helping to smooth out the ride a bit, say for a long washboard road. But, in the past, I resisted dropping the pressure thinking that it would weaken the tire's resistance to damage. Finding out that this was an error in judgement is really humbling. I guess I'm going to have to rearrange my priorities for future mods. I can see OBA or at least a higher quality mobile air compressor on the wish list.
 
My 285/75/16's m/t's are pretty happy as well as my comfort at 15psi. I do like my little oasis airdowns, not the quickest and not to accurate, but also gives me time to check out other things before hitting the dirt. Most likely just pick up a bottle at some point for refills rather than OBA.
 
... My experience is most AT's lack the sidewall protection or strength of comparable MT's, BFG AT's probably being the worst ...

Among BFG's I have seen more M/T's cut than A/T's. IIRC they are the same construction, so maybe driver thinking, "I have tough tires" and driving like they cant be damaged?

The balloon analogy is a good one. A harder tire will be more likely to ride up on a point, making for a very high point load. A softer, more elastic, tire will be more likely to stretch, conform over the point, reducing the point load, making it harder to cut. That said, speed is a problem, a soft tire is easier to pinch, like between a ledge and rim, so there is no free lunch!:hillbilly:

A very big consideration is tire heat, a big contributor to shortened tire life and failure. When aired down the tire flexes more building heat, so top speed and time at speed, should be watched. I limit speed to 40mph or less depending on pressure and only a few miles at speed without airing up. Road surface make no difference, the speed limit is the same, dirt or pavement. Also rigs don't handle well when riding on big balloons, in the event that emergency maneuvers are needed a tire could roll off the rim, the best bet is to keep it slow and enjoy the ride when aired down.:hillbilly:
 
I struggled making it up this hill (right) at 30 PSI, before I lowered the pressure to about 15 PSI - on an all-terrain tire.

Even for expedition runs, I would highly recommend airing down, for the same reasons others have posted: traction, surface area, reduced footprint pressure/increased footprint size and a substantial increase in comfort.

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and watch out for sticks ;)
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Among BFG's I have seen more M/T's cut than A/T's. IIRC they are the same construction, so maybe driver thinking, "I have tough tires" and driving like they cant be damaged?

It could also be spending 21st century coin on a tire designed in the 80's just because the marketing says "3 ply sidewall" :D
 
Many many people don't know how important tire pressure is in the suspension equation. Ride and handling can change quite a bit. Ask Ford and Firestone.... if your Explorer rolls over too easy, drop the tire pressure down to meet the requirements and get it on the market. :D
 
BFG AT's at low (15-20 psi) pressures are the choice in my neck of the woods, plenty of lava rock here in Spain however the real problem is SYRINGES!! No not the locals jacking up but the farmers, they will innoculate a few hundered cattle here and just throw the dam empty/disposable syringes on the floor as the go along, the BFG seems to better resist punctures better than most.

JMHO

regards

Dave
 
and watch out for sticks ;)

Whoa, Retro! Bet there's an interesting story behind that! Is that imbedded in your tire? Tire in pic looks like low mileage.


It wasn't a limb. It was a freakin' tree trunk.

Okay, a relatively small tree (lodgepole pine, probably).
 
I have 315-75-16 BFG MT KM2. I've been running at 15 psi when I hit the dirt. It's night and day running at this lower tire pressure compared to the 34 psi that I have it at for my daily driving. I haven't tried it yet, but I think going down to even 10 psi would be fine. At 15 psi, the footprint increases, but it seems like the sidewall is still relatively stiff. Next time I go out, I just might try 10 psi and see how it handles.

Anyone have issues with this set up at 10 psi?
 
BFG AT's at low (15-20 psi) pressures are the choice in my neck of the woods, plenty of lava rock here in Spain however the real problem is SYRINGES!! No not the locals jacking up but the farmers, they will innoculate a few hundered cattle here and just throw the dam empty/disposable syringes on the floor as the go along, the BFG seems to better resist punctures better than most.

JMHO

regards

Dave

That was a problem in Detroit too!! Not from farmers, though.
 

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