forum newbie | '92 FJ80 - - Hot weather mean no start

[INNOV8S]

Hot weather = No start

Hello, I have a stock '92 FJ80 that all Spring long has not wanted to start. I have been reading on here and other places that one fix was to up the wire from 12 gauge to 10 gauge. The result from what I have read on posts is that this was a temp. fix and that people were having the relay blow, get eaten up anyway.

This has been driving my mechanic Pat nuts. And I have two trips into the the Toyota dealer. Recently, I have bought an Optima battery. I have no CEL. Pat check and lubed(electrical stuff) the coil. He checked the ignition module - - cleaned the contacts. I recently had him Tune Up cleaned the distributor and contacts. He got me a new fuel filter. Cleaned up the nasty, gunked up PCV. Also put in a new radiator - - plastic and aluminum what were they thinking?

Any suggestions on what to try? I know nothing about cars. And Pat is learning quickly about the Land Crusher. From Jon Helds post sould like some type on intake vaccum tube could be looked at? Also cleaning contact on the FPR - fuel pump relay?

Help... I'm tired of calling my wife to unstrand me. It does appear to start after a cool down period of 45+ minutes. It is only a half good vehicle now.

Thanks,

Gil Gaska
On Lake Michigan

 

[CJF]

Simplest way to get started on the diagnosis:

Your CEL should be illuminated with the engine OFF, key in the ON position. Verify that this is the case when it *will* start, and then see whether it is the case when it *won't* start.

The two "answers" people are going to toss at you are: 1) The EFI relay (have you located that?) and 2) the Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR) (locate that too).

DO THE SIMPLE TEST OUTLINED ABOVE ASAP, so we can all get focused and point you in the right direction.

Curtis

 

[jonheld]

From Jon Helds post sould like some type on intake vaccum tube could be looked at?

Whatchutalkinbout Willis?

Do what Curtis said.

 

[INNOV8S]

Hot Weather = No Start | '92 FJ80

I found the EFI main relay in the #2 relay box on the front side of the left fender. Pop the 'lunch box' open an found the fuse looking thing. It was hotter than Haddes. It looks in tack. Does that aluminum cover pop off to reveal anything? Or do you replace that?

Snooped around for the Fuel Pressure Reg. - - throw me bone somebody, not sure where this is.

Yeah I have No CEL at anytime, with or with out ACC, or START or any. No CEL ever.

 

[INNOV8S]

Hot Weather = No Start = NSS?

I'll check this in the AM. thx Jon

 

[FrankTorres]

I have upgraded the wiring to the EFI years ago it was good for a while and now It's back, The "No CEL & no start" when hot.

It is inconvenient when we're making multiple stops, but we make do with a pop of the hood and a few tricks...

Tricks we use that work:
wiggle the relay
Pour cool water on the EFI relay
Swap out for another (spare we have 3) EFI relay

Fix I will try next:
Make a pigtail and relocating the EFI relay inside the cab where it should stay cooler.

My theory is that heat expansion inside the relay binds the switch....

 

[FrankTorres]

...oh for a EFI relay spare, there is a after market EFI relay by GP Sorensen,
part # 41-5002 about $15

 

[INNOV8S]

Cooling the EFI relay

Frank, great info. Yeah a buddy suggested adding a heat sink the the EFI relay. What are your thoughts? I know there is not much room inside that box currently.

 

[jonheld]

Guys,

If you have a look at my website there is a direct replacement relay from a Camry that drops right in.

As far as diagnosis goes, if you search, even a little bit, you will find numerous threads and diagnostic procedures regarding this.

Purchase a Toyota Factory Service Manual for your truck.

The FPR (fuel pressure regulator) is on the left side just below the throttle body. However it will have nothing to do with the "check engine" light (CEL). Your problem will be either the fusible links off the positive battery terminal or corroded terminals in the fusebox or heat damaged wires or a combination of all of the above.

You said, "Yeah I have No CEL at anytime, with or with out ACC, or START or any. No CEL ever."

PLEASE READ WHAT PEOPLE HAVE ASKED YOU TO DO. Turn the key to the ON position (without starting or trying to start). If the CEL is on, then the EFI circuit is energized and the truck will most likely start. If no CEL, then NO start.

 

[FrankTorres]

I have a few heat sinks from old desktop CPU's.
...But like you mentioned no room in the box.

From my experience most all other Toyota EFI relays are located inside the cab, including my 1986 4Runner.

I will wire in a pigtail from the EFI relay socket through the firewall into the cab and under the dash.

Maybe after some coffee this morning

 

[FrankTorres]

Jon your website rocks and has great wiring info I love the pics of the relay in pieces.

FYI - EFI relays from most Toyota's that era are interchangeable as well as Open Circuit Relays.

 

[INNOV8S]

CEL is on when Ignition switch is "ON" position

I'm feeling like a dork right about now. CEL comes on when key is in the "ON" position. Circuit gets energized - - then randomly starts, higher chance of starting in the AM when cool. Odds go down when I leave work in the PM, especially increased of not starting if I got out for lunch that day.

 

[FrankTorres]

If it is the EFI Relay , which sounds like it is...you have more than enough info to fix the problem and NOT be stranded for more than 10 seconds.

Good luck and I'll post when I relocate my EFI relay....

 

[INNOV8S]

Frank you are onto something. To fit in the box it would have to look more like a gear that slide on top. A ring on a finger to use an analogy. You'd have to have access to machining capabilties to make it sweet. Let us know how it goes.

 

[GXO]

I swapped my old 91 FJ80's EFI relays to NAPA parts and they seem much more tolerant of the heat. I had also done the wire upgrade and it reduced the head even more (resistance reduced).

 

[CJF]

I'm feeling like a dork right about now. CEL comes on when key is in the "ON" position. Circuit gets energized - - then randomly starts

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. if CEL is illuminated with key in On postion during the no start situations, then I believe that rules out the entire EFI circuit as the problem.

Next question (please read carefully!): When it won't start, is it because it's hot outside, or because the vehicle has been recently driven? For example, if you DIDN'T drive it to work and just came home in the afternoon (it hasn't been started all day) and tried to start it, would it fire right up?

 

[jonheld]

Curtis is correct as usual. If the CEL is on then the EFI circuit is functioning and the engine ECU has what it needs.

IMO the very next thing you need to do is check for spark when the "should start" conditions are met. If CEL on and no spark then possible igniter failure. These can become intermittant and can exibit the symptoms you are describing. However, if you are getting spark then this is a fuel related problem and the first suspect is the FPR.

 

[FrankTorres]

In cab EFI Relay

Just finished my in cab pigtail everything works good so far...

Just a small cut out for the wiring coming out of the box then straight through the firewall.

Tucked under the dash with some zip ties...

No more hot relay.
I think there is just too much heat next to the mighty 3FE for the EFI relay to have longevity a heat sink might not work.

Anyway I hope this helps someone...

 

[INNOV8S]

Hot weather, no starting FJ80

Hello CJF, I think it may be the hot weather rather than driving in from being hot. It has been sitting all day, it is overcast and 79 degrees today - - not extremely for Michigan - - but just now it fired right up.

But I'll give a conflict situation...The other day (high above 80 degrees) at night at around 7:00 drove to beach. Hour plus at beach with kids. Left beach, it was sitting in shade, fired right up. Then drove thru for ice cream and headed to park. We were at the park 20 minutes and it would not start.

Some how it could be the combination of hot weather and just after a drive. Other times I'll drive into work - - sits on hot asphalt all day and will not start.


I found my Fuel Pressure Regulator, I think. Look at photo below.

 

[jonheld]

Just finished my in cab pigtail everything works good so far...

Frank,

Could you do me a favor when you get a chance? Throw an ammeter accross the load side of the EFI relay and measure the current that the EFI circuit draws at idle and while under load. This has been someting I've been meaning to do for a while, but you're set up perfectly for theat now. Please post your findings or you can PM me. I'm working on an EFI troubleshooting page for my website. Thanks in advance.