WEBER VS OEM: The Facts

[Roebon]

Not that I have any facts, but I hope this thread exposes them.

I know people who run Weber carbs and love them...their only gripe is that it is not orginal equipment. Equivalent fuel mileage, better acceleration, easy to tune and rebuild. What's not to like? Yet it seems that for every Weber fan, there is ten Weber haters. Without exception, whenever a Weber question is posted on this board the carb is bashed and the "best advice" given is to go back to stock and send it to Jim for a rebuild.

What I'm interested in is causality. So you say Webers suck on a 2F, huh? Why? Because your "buddy" can't get his to run right? That's not a good argument to base advice on. I think that Mark Whatley once gave some objective data on why the OEM is better matched than the Weber for a stock 2F. IIRC, he also uses or has used Webers on some of his vehicles.

I hope all you Weber bashers step up to the plate. If not I am going to have to conclude that it is all a big conspiracy orchastrated by Jim to get more business.

 

[lowtideride]

One, OEM it was made for the engine.
Two, I have seen and heard about them not running well off camber, I dont know the condition of the carbs because it was not my own vehicle but I have seen it more than once.

 

[Mace]

Nice chip on your shoulder

Try telling people that Holleys are a good carb and see where it gets ya

 

[2badfjs]

iheartmyweber on my 69/40

it runs uphill and downhill
it's never let me down
i think it's matched pretty good with my 2f thats bored 40 over.
i bought it new and it was jetted for my altitude....
easy mod for a 69

buying a used one may be different,you never know what you get

I'M PRO WEBER!
in some cases

 

[Roebon]

Let me reiterate that the objective here is to be objective. Where is the cause an effect? Again another example of hear say and lack of objectivity. Not a scientist eh?

 

[Roebon]

I was refering to lowtides comments.

 

[wesintl]

no need to reinvent the wheel just look for posts by fj40jim

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=311641&postcount=4

 

[lowtideride]

Let me reiterate that the objective here is to be objective. Where is the cause an effect? Again another example of hear say and lack of objectivity. Not a scientist eh?

How is that hear say, I said I saw them run s***ty off camber.

 

[wob]

I had a Weber on my old 40, and it sucked ballz. In all fairness, JTO fawked me and sold me the one for the F engine instead of the 2F.

 

[beaufort-fj60]

if you know so many people that run Webbers and love them, why don't you share your special knowledge to start with.


cut and paste from jim

The common weber carb sold for Cruiser is a 38/38mm w/ 26/26 choke tubes (venturis to the rest of us).
The Aisan FJ60 carb is 38/40mm throttles w/ 31/35mm venturis.
The Aisan will flow 425CFM, compared to 275CFM for the weber.

The Aisan carb has two major problems:
It is old and needs serviced.
It is smog legal.

Keeping this in mind, it is obvious that replacing the old Aisan with a brand new {insert carb brand of the month here} carb will in many cases yield some improvement.

For best stock performance, install a rebuilt & tweaked Aisan.

For best smog-legal boat towing performance, install a certified EFI V8 engine.

 

[dogboy2]

Let me reiterate that the objective here is to be objective. Where is the cause an effect? Again another example of hear say and lack of objectivity. Not a scientist eh?

Interesting statement Roebon given that one of the basic tenets of empirical science is direct observation of existing conditions and variables.

empirical
adj 1: derived from experiment and observation rather than theory

Looks like Lowtide's comment is in direct keeping with the dictionary definition and qualifies as a "legitimate" answer to your inquiry. I'll stand by my original response to RedfishBluegrass too.

Not much of a scientist or one for making friends are you Roebon? Have any quantifiable hard data to add yourself or just more inflammatory rhetoric?

Thanks Wesintl for the link to Jim C's post and for ending this "debate".

-dogboy- '87 FJ60

 

[Roebon]

I never said I know "so many" people nor did I reference any "special knowledge" that I might have. As a matter of fact...I prefaced my post with: "not that I have any facts".

This thread evolved from another posting about a Weber. Jim C mentioned that it would be interesting to get some objective data on the Weber/OEM contreversy after I brought up that I have heard little more than conjecture. So the theme here is facts supported with data. The reference to a consipiracy was a joke.

As 2badfj's points out...some people like their Webers. Apparently they get them to run well. So why do others have so many problems with them.

Sorry, lowtide...I was refering to the "and heard about". The rest you dealt with for me in your last sentence. True that it was designed for the 2F, also a fact that it was designed more than 25 years ago with under certain economic pressures. Regardless, it is an indirect argument that doesn't shine any light on exactly what causes the OEM carb to be better than the Weber.

Don't get me wrong guys...I'm not trying to get personal about this issue...and neither should you.

 

[beaufort-fj60]

Not that I have any facts, but I hope this thread exposes them.

I know people who run Weber carbs and love them...their only gripe is that it is not orginal equipment. Equivalent fuel mileage, better acceleration, easy to tune and rebuild. What's not to like? Yet it seems that for every Weber fan, there is ten Weber haters. Without exception, whenever a Weber question is posted on this board the carb is bashed and the "best advice" given is to go back to stock and send it to Jim for a rebuild.

What I'm interested in is causality. So you say Webers suck on a 2F, huh? Why? Because your "buddy" can't get his to run right? That's not a good argument to base advice on. I think that Mark Whatley once gave some objective data on why the OEM is better matched than the Weber for a stock 2F. IIRC, he also uses or has used Webers on some of his vehicles.

I hope all you Weber bashers step up to the plate. If not I am going to have to conclude that it is all a big conspiracy orchastrated by Jim to get more business.

just saying... share some of the love

 

[Roebon]

Your taking taking observation out of context. Observation as you are refering to it means having the ability to measure. I think my tone has been misunderstood...and I apologize for that.

 

[Gumby]

Few, if any, of the webers I have seen on 2Fs work as well as the stock carb. They seem to be notoriously hard to tune and keep that way vs. idiot proof stock carbs that really only have a problem with the idle shut off solenoid.

I have worked on Webers that would only run right in a very narrow range of fuel pressure.

I think the big reason to stick with the Aisen is because it works well and many think it works better than the alternative. This then begs the question, why not just use the stock carb?

 

[stinkyfj60]

I have had three Webers, a 32/36 on a F engine. Ran great, angles, hills, hot or cold. SIMPLE to tune, a little sensitive to dirty fuel.

I have a 38/38 on my 60. Runs great, always has, way easier to work on then the stock one. I would prefer a stock on on this truck, but the Weber is fine and always works regardless of circumstance.

I have a 38/38 on a 22R. That one needs to be tuned bad, its set up for really low elevation...

The major problems I see are people not taking the time to do the float settings and that gets most of them whacked. They have a spring loaded needle and seat and tend to run really good at angles.

At least thats my experience.

Why not the stock carb? Because when mine died it died, and a Jim C rebuild was WAY more than I paid for a used 38/38 (and the guy sent me a plenum, the tuning manual, and some other extra parts) and I ordered jets and set it up myself...

 

[brian]

I have a 38/38 on a 22R. That one needs to be tuned bad, its set up for really low elevation...

...

that carb seems(to me) like it would be way too big for the 2somethingL 22R, when it's seems to be alittle too much for the 4.2L 2F.





oh and i have a weber38 on the 40. it runs and drives my ass around. never drove a cruiser with the oem carb on it though.
i went from an (before that it had a weber) early fuelly setup to the weber, and that was a huge improvement.
i have a 1975 carb waiting for the funds to send to jimc. i'm looking forward to that, as i've heard that the '75 carbs were the largest carbs ever on a 2F.

 

[PAFJ]

Just send your stock carb to Jim for a rebuild, and be done with it!

 

[PAFJ]

Seriously...my buddy runs a weber on his '69 40...and loves it! I've seen him in some serious off camber and the Weber holds strong. Like Stinky said...take the time to get it tuned perfectly to your specification and it should work perfectly for you.

 

[Exiled]

So you say Webers suck on a 2F, huh? Why? Because your "buddy" can't get his to run right? That's not a good argument to base advice on. I think that Mark Whatley once gave some objective data on why the OEM is better matched than the Weber for a stock 2F. IIRC, he also uses or has used Webers on some of his vehicles.

I hope all you Weber bashers step up to the plate. If not I am going to have to conclude that it is all a big conspiracy orchastrated by Jim to get more business.

I suspect that the anti-Weber current *may* be based on hearsay, third-party or subjective information. But that holds true for a significant portion of the "keep it all Toyota" camp. They don't like drivetrain transplants either. A lot of stems from the old argument "Toyota made them perfect so why fool with it". Some buy it, some don't. As in every Cruiserhead argument (SOA vs. SUA, SR vs. NSR, 2F vs. V8, Weber vs. Aisin, bezel with the fat side up vs. bezel with the fat side down), you'll find people that are passionate about one or the other, sometimes based on personal experience, sometimes just from repeating an urban legend.