yet another oil leak topic... (1 Viewer)

[clownmidget]

Well I've noticed this developing over the last 2-3 months and got really concerned when I read about Cdan's nightmare since mine is leaking from the front end as well. However, I'm pretty certain that it's more likely the front main seal (?) behind the crankshaft pulley.

I realize this is a bit of a loaded question but how common is that on a 1997 truck with around 110k miles, not abused, maintained regularly, blah, blah, blah, but does actually get used like a truck? It seems pretty subtle since it has to accumulate on the skidplate, and other lower hanging stuff before it starts dripping on the driveway.

I've also got a nasty leak around the oil pan that continues in spite of checking the torque on all the bolts. It looks as if that had been dropped before as there is some gasket-maker splooging out along the edges. Not certain about any other points of origin for the leaks but I've got some time that the truck can sit now before I'll need to start driving it again and the mess on the driveway isn't scoring me any points either.

So, my thoughts were to do the oil pan gasket myself, check over any other possible sources for leaks but I'm just not up to doing the front main seal myself right now. Yes, I installed my own s/c, pulled the injectors for service and reinstalled, and have done way too many front and rear axle rebuilds on FJ's from 1974 on but I'm just not feeling up to this right now.

Any advice on how much I should expect to pay to have this done, and if anyone is in southern CA (I live in Riverside) or knows of a good shop/guy that could do this within the next two weeks please let me know. Sorry to go on, just too much on my plate and not enough coffee to make it all clear. Thanks in advance for any help/advice/slaps, etc.
Mike R.

 

[clownmidget]

Had a bit more of a look and have narrowed it down to the crankshaft front oil seal or the front edge of oil pan #1 directly under the front pulley. Of course there's still oil leaking from around oil pan #2 bt that doesn't seem as big a deal. Also after checking the FSM it appears that the crankshaft front oil seal and gaskets for oil pans #1 & #2 don't really require monumental efforts after all. Can anyone verify this? I guess Cdan should be super informative about this since he has just re-done all of this, so thanks in advance for any input.

 

[cruiserdan]

The front crank seal will require basicly the same steps used during S/C installation to install the blower pulley on the crank. after you get to the part where you have removed the pulley bolt then remove the the pulley and then the seal.

Re-torquing the oil pan gets you nowhere. It will require removal of both pans. The steel #2 pan needs to come off first and then the alloy #1 pan. The engine will need to be lifted off of the front mounts about 2 inches to remove and replace the #1 pan. In my case it took carefully applied heat from a torch to get the pans to break free. If you have access to a hoist and some of the other special stuff count on close to a full day to get the pans off and the front of the motor apart. I would let the engine sit over-night with the pans off to all as much oil as possible to drain out. It will then take an additional day to clean up the pans and block and re-assemble I would then let the vehicle sit overnight to allow the sealer to cure before firing the engine.

If you plan on flat-backing it, I would add at least one day to the time. Cleaning the pans and laying on your back cleaning the pan mounting rail on the block will take a lot of time.

D-

 

[clownmidget]

Dan, thanks that's pretty much what I expected. I guess my next question to you would be is it even worth my time to mess around doing the front seal if I'm going to have a shop do the oil pans? I'd have to do this in my driveway and I just don't think I'm up for it right now.

One more question. My oil loss is essentially non-significant so can this wait or am I playing with fire waiting for a bigger failure in the gasket(s). Right now it's just enough to dump about a teaspoon on the driveway each day but I imagine I'm loosing a bit more as I drive and spread it all around the underside and roadway. I haven't had to add oil yet between changes but it is getting a bit more. This seems to coincide with a bit colder weather, although it is southern CA so I don't think that has anything to do with it.

Thanks again.
Mike R.

 

[wob]

Give Auto Rx a try.

 

[clownmidget]

If Dan or anyone else would like to comment on this pic please let me know. I'm scheduled to let the local Toy dealership check it out in the morning.

 

[cruiserdan]

Could be front pan arch, crank seal or oil pump cover. Does the back of the crank pulley show any "oil slinging" patterns?

 

[clownmidget]

Dan,
Not really. In fact the belts are all spotless and above the crankshaft pulley is pretty clean. It doesn't show the splatter effect off to the sides either, more like a slow, steady leak. I should know more tomorrow.
Thanks.
Mike R.

 

[cruiserdan]

Mike,

If the surface above the crank pulley is dry as you described, I would lean toward the pan arch or the oil pump cover. Of the three the crank seal is the easiest. If it is the oil pump cover it could get tricky for an in-frame repair as Mr T chose to use counter-sunk Phillips head screws to secure the cover I had to use an impact screw driver after the timing cover was removed from the engine to get the little bastards out.

The best of luck to you.

D-

 

[clownmidget]

Dan, just got back from leaving my truck with the Toyota dealership. Here's their prognosis:

Definite leak along saddle of upper oil pan gasket just below crankshaft pulley, and most likely a small leak on the crankshaft pulley.

So they said they'd drop both oil pans and replace gaskets on those and do the crankshaft pulley seal as well since it would be minimal extra labor.

Total estimate for their labor charge = 12 hours, plus the cost of the parts. They also threw in a 10% TLCA discount on labor & parts.

They said they'd have it done by tomorrow afternoon before close and they began tearing into it by 10 am this morning. I can't really argue about the turn around time since after your experientail input I was facing at least 3 days laying in my driveway.

Anything else I should have them check out while they have that much torn apart down there? Any input/advice welcomed.

Aside from the general skepticism I have for letting someone else do the wrenching on my truck I'm really bummed by how much cash I'm going to drop for what is essentially a simple oil leak (Dan I know you feel this part ). My mind goes immediately to all the goodies I could have purchased that I'm still saving for that will now have to wait even longer as the "mods fund" just went into the red

 

[cruiserdan]

12 hours sounds about right for how long it'll take. I don't think there is much fluff in there (other than the $ per hour )

I do indeed feel your pain.


D-

 

[Riley]

So I wonder what percentange of 80s that have (or will have) 200 miles on them will develop an oil leak of this magnitude (i.e. not including a "low rate drip"). I know this is shades of gray question.

Anybody hazard to guess how likely a typical 80 owner would run into this? :-\

It also sounds like there's a high percentage of 1FZE engines with drips from pans and seals given the thread.

great.....more therapy....

R

 

[landtoy80]

THe above leak looks like my leak.
My pan arch leaks. I replaced the front pulley seal and oil pump cover gasket.
The timing cover seep a bit too.

 

[clownmidget]

Thanks Dan.

Riley, I'd say based on the 10 or so Toyotas I've owned - most . But I don't think I've ever had any type of catastrophic loss like Dan did. Just that slow, annoying leak around a gasket that I always knew would take entirely way too much effort to remedy.

Kurt, good luck. After this I'm just counting on Dan's plug failure being an absolute fluke.

On a weird update note, when they dropped the oil pans they found a small bit of black plastic that was from the oil level sensor. It appeared to be okay and functional and after a quick check on how much it would be to replace - $400 for just the part - they put it back in with my consent. So that may be something to check on while you change your oil from now on