WS Tranny Fluid and Lifetime Change Interval

[SWUtah]

A piece of mind is priceless .
At least that is why I maintain my machines.

agreed!

 

[txag12]

It's not a binary issue of changing the fluid only if you overheat but never changing it otherwise. There are varying degrees to which one can stress the transmission, which the Toyota recommended service schedule PDF acknowledges by recommending a replacement of the WS fluid every 60k miles if the LC is used for towing.

Seriously, just go download the recommended service schedule PDF from the Toyota owners website. Although Toyota admits the possibility that the fluid needs to be changed only under certain conditions, the very logic that goes into this "change if towing" recommendation is an acknowledgement that WS can ware down. So yeah, the label "lifetime" is quite misleading.

 

[SWUtah]

It's not a binary issue of changing the fluid only if you overheat but never changing it otherwise. There are varying degrees to which one can stress the transmission, which the Toyota recommended service schedule PDF acknowledges by recommending a replacement of the WS fluid every 60k miles if the LC is used for towing.

Seriously, just go download the recommended service schedule PDF from the Toyota owners website. Although Toyota admits the possibility that the fluid needs to be changed only under certain conditions, the very logic that goes into this "change if towing" recommendation is an acknowledgement that WS can ware down. So yeah, the label "lifetime" is quite misleading.

Sounds like you spelled it out if you tow change it every 60K miles. If you don't Lexus does not recommend changing the fluid. I changed mine just to feel good. Mine shifted like butter before I changed it and it shifts the same after. I had the drain and fill done not the flush, safer.

 

[04UZJ100]

Sounds like you spelled it out if you tow change it every 60K miles. If you don't Lexus does not recommend changing the fluid. I changed mine just to feel good. Mine shifted like butter before I changed it and it shifts the same after. I had the drain and fill done not the flush, safer.

Which means you drained all of about 25% of the total fluid. Seriously, I've spoken to the shop foreman and observed what they do.

Not all dealership employees are elementary school dropouts.

 

[SWUtah]

Which means you drained all of about 25% of the total fluid. Seriously, I've spoken to the shop foreman and observed what they do.

Not all dealership employees are elementary school dropouts.

Don't understand why you would think that dealership employees are elementary school dropouts? If you do a flush you have a greater chance of introducing contaminates. My dealer uses the flush for all transmission fluid flushes. Meaning it can have T type fluid residue still in it and that would not be good. Yes changing part of the fluid is better then none, I guess? Like I said I did it to make me "feel" better, and not do any damage with contaminates getting into the transmission. My service manager at my Lexus dealership discussed what we thought would do the most good and the least possible harm, this was the decision. Yes the flush would of cost more and made the dealership more money but the service manager also thought the drain and fill was the best idea with the WS fluid. I think most Lexus dealerships hire the very best people so that is where I take my LX's.

 

[dealmaker]

Interesting thread. I'm wondering what degree of I should be at my independent Lexus mechanic (was a Lexus Master Technician), who yesterday told me the TF was "dirty" and suggested a flush, which I agreed to. Now I feel like I got hooked up and got flushed from my hard-earned $. This is at 65k miles, by the way. He never even asked me if I towed or anything (I don't).

 

[SWUtah]

Interesting thread. I'm wondering what degree of I should be at my independent Lexus mechanic (was a Lexus Master Technician), who yesterday told me the TF was "dirty" and suggested a flush, which I agreed to. Now I feel like I got hooked up and got flushed from my hard-earned $. This is at 65k miles, by the way. He never even asked me if I towed or anything (I don't).

I would be more concerned about the fact that his flush machine had left over fluid and when he put in the WS you got a mixture. If you fluid was dirty you have a transmission problem. I doubt it was dirty. The guy just needed some cash. My Lexus SA recommended I not change the fluid at 110k miles and if I had to service the transmission I should only do a drain and fill since their machine is used with other type of fluid.

 

[dealmaker]

Spoke to my mechanic today (he's independent, former Lexus Master Tech and current ASE Tech) and am and not . First I asked him about their flushing process. Long story short, the way they do it is a long process half of which I already forgot, and no flushing machine used. Second, I asked him about the "lifetime" thing. He said (probably his opinon) that Lexus started doing the lifetime transmission thing to keep up with the other lux automakers like BMW and Mercedes. He doesn't promote the idea of the lifetime AT. I'm no mechanic, but its hard for me to swallow, too. We're all so OCD about fluid changes etc but we're asked to let something like the AT go to infinity? I'd only do that if Lexus has a lifetime guarantee on the AT with a new replacement installed upon failure. I'm content that my $250? after 65k miles was well-spent as AT preventative maintenance on a vehicle I will keep forever.

I would be more concerned about the fact that his flush machine had left over fluid and when he put in the WS you got a mixture. If you fluid was dirty you have a transmission problem. I doubt it was dirty. The guy just needed some cash. My Lexus SA recommended I not change the fluid at 110k miles and if I had to service the transmission I should only do a drain and fill since their machine is used with other type of fluid.

 

[Tredwards]

I have a 2005 Lx470 with 130K mi. As far as I know the fluid has never been changed. I bought it at 125k mi. It appears the general consensus is to flush the fluid. I guess the drain and refill method is the easiest and you just measure the amount out and fill with the same. Is it recommended to continue with WS fluid or try something like Mobil 1 ATF?

Has anyone tried valvoline max life atf. Looks like is about 1/2 the price and easily accessible. Any thoughts?

 

[apdxyk]

I have a 2005 Lx470 with 130K mi. As far as I know the fluid has never been changed. I bought it at 125k mi. It appears the general consensus is to flush the fluid. I guess the drain and refill method is the easiest and you just measure the amount out and fill with the same. Is it recommended to continue with WS fluid or try something like Mobil 1 ATF?

Don't use M1 ATF where WS is specified.

1. Different kinematic viscosity.
2. Different indicies
3. Different thermal expansion coefficients

No, WS is not garbage..

 

[Tredwards]

Yea I just looked that up. Mobil 1 is a no go. But it appears Valvoline Max Life Syn and Amsoil are WS compatible. Are there any preferences on use. Toyota brand vs the full synthetic brands?

Valvoline Max Life Full Synthetic ATF - 1 gallon = 17.87 @ Walmart
Amsoil ATL - 1 gallon = 48.70 @ online retailer
Toyota WS - 4 qts = 36.40 @ Amazon

 

[SWUtah]

Yea I just looked that up. Mobil 1 is a no go. But it appears Valvoline Max Life Syn and Amsoil are WS compatible. Are there any preferences on use. Toyota brand vs the full synthetic brands?

Valvoline Max Life Full Synthetic ATF - 1 gallon = 17.87 @ Walmart
Amsoil ATL - 1 gallon = 48.70 @ online retailer
Toyota WS - 4 qts = 36.40 @ Amazon

Lmao for another 100k in trouble free driving your going to try and save $20? Plus if you don't know exactly what your doing on the fluid exchange it could end up being an expensive learning experience. I had mine done using WS by a shop in Colorado that specializes in 100 series. Just make sure you do it right with the right fluid. JMHO

 

[Tredwards]

Just been doing a lot of reading. Appears some people believe Valvoline Maxlife or Amsoil may be a better option. They are WS compatible and full synthetic which the Toyota WS some believe may be a conventional. I have no problems doing the procedure. After fully building an 80 and doing all the maintenance and build on my own as well as now working on the 100 I have no issues doing this procedure. Its not the money, it is also accessibility and is the Toyota WS really the best way to go. A very similar debate has come up in the 80 section time and time again related to toyota red coolant vs green coolant etc. Here are some sites that go into other thoughts on the WS fluid. Also here are the valvoline maxlife specs vs some toyota WS specs. I understand this is a toyota site and alot of people believe toyota brand is the best, but that is not always true. Ive spent 3 yrs on this site reading tons of info and you will find that sometimes other brands are better. Just learning and questioning stuff on the fairly new to me 100.

WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now
Maxlife ATF for Toyota WS | ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S | Bob Is The Oil Guy
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf
Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

Valvoline Maxlife
Viscosity!@!100°C,!cSt 5.91
Viscosity!@!40°C,!cSt 28.82
Viscosity!Index 156
Specific!Gravity!@!60°F 0.843
Pour!Point,!°C, @48
Brookfield!Viscosity!@!@40°C,!cP 10200
Flash!Point,!COC,!°C 202
ASTM!Color 7 Appearance Red

Toyota WS

Oil Brand: Toyota ATF
Oil Series: Type WS
Lab: Wearcheck Canada
Sample Date: 8 JUNE 2007
Analysis Date: 14 JUNE 2007

Code:Antimony Sb NR
Cadmium Cd NR
Vanadium V 0.0
Aluminum Al 0.3
Chromium Cr 0.0
Iron Fe 0.2
Copper Cu 0.0
Lead Pb 0.0
Tin Sn 0.0
Molybdenum Mo 0.0
Nickel 0.0
Manganese Mn 0.0
Silver Ag 0.0
Titanium Ti 0.0
Potassium K 1.6
Boron B 75
Silicon Si 3.5
Sodium Na 3.8
Calcium Ca 118
Magnesium Mg 1.5
Phosporus P 282
Zinc Zn 4.9
Sulfur 606
Barium Ba 7.2

cSt @ 40 C 25.0
cSt @ 100 C 6.0
Viscosity Index 201

Water <0.1
Appearance Normal
Odor Normal

 

[apdxyk]

..the Toyota WS some believe may be a conventional..

Can those very people reconcile their claim of WS being conventional with the 201 VI you just posted?

I saw that "garbage" thread coming, that is why I tried to warn everybody off by saying "WS is not garbage" in my previous post. My son's 4R made it up to 406K on WS with no change, that's when torque convertor finally gave up.. It was of interest to him, as he is an engineer, involved in transmission design for CAT.

It's overall design and fluid formulation you should look at. [no argument about brands and branding]

 

[Tredwards]

I have no problem with toyota ws. I am just looking at options and looking for opinions here. Most likely I will do a drain and refill with ws every oil change for a while to refresh the system. Just because 1 fluid works well and is used by most doesn't mean something else isn't equivalent or better.

 

[SWUtah]

Sounds like your more ten competent to do the job. Use the other brand start a thread and update as the miles roll by. Would be a good resource for others. Sample your OEM used fluid as a 130k mile bench mark and send to Blackstone. Then sample the new stuff as the miles roll with Blackstone sample analysis to see how it compares.

 

[Tredwards]

Here's another thread on the topic on mud. The amsoil looks to be an excellent replacement. Would you do a couple drain and fills or full exchange?

WS ATF

 

[re_guderian]

Sounds like your more ten competent to do the job. Use the other brand start a thread and update as the miles roll by. Would be a good resource for others. Sample your OEM used fluid as a 130k mile bench mark and send to Blackstone. Then sample the new stuff as the miles roll with Blackstone sample analysis to see how it compares.

[Rant] The problem with Blackstone analysis for routine maintenance (besides the fact that we'll all likely be driving different rigs before any meaningful data comes in) is that it is without context. It is simply a comparison of characteristics without a "so what?" conclusion. Useless, except to lighten the wallet. It's great if you want to (in)validate things like head gasket failure, trans fluid contamination after cooler failure, etc. etc. otherwise I learn absolutely nothing by reading Blackstone reports. They don't address the relationship between the elemental analysis and the functionality of the fluid they're testing, e.g. how low is too low? how much is too much? what effect does that have on the main function of oil/trans fluid/anything-else-they'll-take-your-money-to-analyze... Sure, they'll compare it to their database of similar engines/trannies, but again, so what? Their recommendations are always conservative and involve a re-test. $$$$ [/Rant]

 

[tempestv8]

Just some additional info to this thread:
The MSDS for Toyota WS fluid states that it's "80-90% mineral oil".
http://elit-oil.io.ua/files/0001/50/00015062.pdf

 

[CloudCity]

My son's 4R made it up to 406K on WS with no change, that's when torque convertor finally gave up.. It was of interest to him, as he is an engineer, involved in transmission design for CAT.

This kinda blows my mind. Factory fill performed for 406k road miles, that's impressive. I'd have to check my maintenance notes but pretty sure PO did a fluid change, but I'd be interested to know how many have never touched their fluid and have over 200k miles.