wrap/ trac bar (7 Viewers)

[Mace]

And that is why the bars suck..

You can reduce the AS by having the shackle hang way down but then you end up bashing it on rocks.. A lot..

 

[bustanutley]

I was just thinking about antisquat characteristics of a wrap bar. I was wondering if anyone has ever put up the effort to make a 2 link setup with low antisquat #’s. My conclusion was that it was too complicated of a solution, I plan to just link it up soon.

I have however seen a j**p that utilizes some super hard core shock on the top link of his latter bar to control wrap, looked like a really cool solution.

 

[bad_religion_au]

hmmm how does one calculate anti squat... another thing i've been cautious of

 

[dustin]

I tried making a wrap bar like you were thinking in the first post. It broke literrally the first time I took the rig out with it- on the street. My failure point though was at a weld, where I slid a 1" piece of solid stock into the outer sleeve. So, mostly due to my poor fabwork. I am contemplating my next move on this thing. I was told that solid stock isnt as strong as tube, since tube has more wall/ surface area. So, I may try again with thick tube, and not weld at the outter part of the sleeve, but instead just do some spot weld through a hole in the sleeve. Regardless, theres an amazing amount of force down there as you can see from the bend in the solid stock. Don't underestimate it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337337&page=3

cheers-
Dustin

 

[Eskimo]

I was told that solid stock isnt as strong as tube, since tube has more wall/ surface area.

That's correct, IF, and only IF, you're talking strength per pound of weight.

Solid is always stronger than tube if weight is not a factor. Think of a 1.5" solid as being 1.5" .75 wall..

I think Triaged sent me a 4-link calc that was modified for a leaf spring/anti-wrap bar setup.. I'll dig for it tonight.

 

[bad_religion_au]

I tried making a wrap bar like you were thinking in the first post. It broke literrally the first time I took the rig out with it- on the street. My failure point though was at a weld, where I slid a 1" piece of solid stock into the outer sleeve. So, mostly due to my poor fabwork. I am contemplating my next move on this thing. I was told that solid stock isnt as strong as tube, since tube has more wall/ surface area. So, I may try again with thick tube, and not weld at the outter part of the sleeve, but instead just do some spot weld through a hole in the sleeve. Regardless, theres an amazing amount of force down there as you can see from the bend in the solid stock. Don't underestimate it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337337&page=3

cheers-
Dustin

where did it brake? i can't visualise where you'd weld the "slid in" portion..

 

[bandy rooster]

anybody ever hear about those wrap bars that use two mounting locations at each side of the axle and use 2 links that aren't attached to eachother. almost like links in a 4 link. i can't remember what or where i saw it but the guy had two links for his wrap bar 1 on each side of the diff.

what would be the downfall of that?

 

[bandy rooster]

check this out'?

 

[busiboy]

check this out'?

Looks like a good bar, but will it work under atriculation?

I see the bushing on the lower part, but wouldn't the centre of the diff move under flex,v ie side to side?

or again, the centre of the diff moving 1-2 inches from full flex to full flex on the opposite side?

ANy one understand me? Clear as mud?

Scott

 

[dustin]

where did it brake? i can't visualise where you'd weld the "slid in" portion..

I welded where the solid stock slid into the sleeve. Right where it broke. I let it cool down on its own and everything because I hoped it wouldnt fatigue the metal this way. Maybe it would have broke there either way. Not sure, but it seems my weld had something to do with it. On the other end of the solid piece that sticks out of the wrap bar, its actually bent down a bit. So that solid bar bent for about 1/2", then snapped.

I am sure theres a way to get strong enough materials to make this work though. It seems like its a good design that will alllow as much movement as necessary without allowing wrap.

cheers-
Dustin

 

[bad_religion_au]

I welded where the solid stock slid into the sleeve. Right where it broke. I let it cool down on its own and everything because I hoped it wouldnt fatigue the metal this way. Maybe it would have broke there either way. Not sure, but it seems my weld had something to do with it. On the other end of the solid piece that sticks out of the wrap bar, its actually bent down a bit. So that solid bar bent for about 1/2", then snapped.

I am sure theres a way to get strong enough materials to make this work though. It seems like its a good design that will alllow as much movement as necessary without allowing wrap.

cheers-
Dustin

sorry i'm still not understanding where you mean...

using my original drawing, did it break where i've circled on the attached pic?

 

[JDay]

The y-shaped bar I built like you have shown, bent right after the point where the two pieces are joined. I imagine it would have eventually broke. I replaced it with a full length triangulated member with gussets along the center.

Bent like this:

 

[dustin]

ah, sorry. Ok, this might complicate things a little, but heres a pic of where it broke. However, you may notice that in the pic where it broke, the piece that broke looks different. That is because I ended up running a heim joint upfront instead of the part in this pic. I was originally going to run this piece, but was worried about any kind of latteral movement needed by the axle as it twisted would bend the mount. So I remade the front part that attaches to the frame.

This pic shows the piece with an outer sleeve and the solid rod going in. I had welded right there where the rod goes into the sleeve on the one that broke. Perhaps if I ran the one in the pic, it would not have broke. Except I think it would have still bent... My design is a little different than yours, because I have the rod sleeved at the frame end, instead of just welding my fitting to the rod. The rod diameter was only 1", which wasnt big enough to weld the shackle fitting onto.

-Dustin

 

[Radd Cruisers]

/Right were your tub bent is were my shackle is located to eliminate bending under force.

I tried sliding a piece of tube inside but the heat of the welding had warped the tube to much and I ended up using a heim joint.


Rob





[


QUOTE=JDay]The y-shaped bar I built like you have shown, bent right after the point where the two pieces are joined. I imagine it would have eventually broke. I replaced it with a full length triangulated member with gussets along the center.

Bent like this:[/QUOTE]

 

[Mace]

1" solid bar stock is not strong enough.

A full A style ladder bar is the strongest if made with the correct materials.

 

[bad_religion_au]

1" solid bar stock is not strong enough.

A full A style ladder bar is the strongest if made with the correct materials.

do you have any pics of a "full style ladder bar"

 

[Mace]

Woody made one...

 

[bad_religion_au]

now if i stole that design, and instead of the heim, ran my booty fab bit of tube in to the top tube, would i be pushing sh!t uphill?

 

[Mace]

I personaly do not like the tube design, an interferrence fit is not going to work so you have to have a certain amount of slop in the "twisty" portion. Which will only get worse over time. Also, you are putting the most stress on the weakest portion of the A arm..


There are prople that have made that sort of bar work tho..

 

[Eskimo]

do you have any pics of a "full style ladder bar"

http://www.rnrfab.com/rich/misc/wrapbar/

Like I said, this one works to stop wrap, but has a ton of anti-squat. even if I bought the heim down 6", it wouldn't make much difference...

1.5" .250 DOM, 43,000lb heim.