Would like some opinions on fuel injection please (1 Viewer)

[flightmedic]

Happy New Year all.

I am at the point where I need to decide to use a 3fe head and all associated FI components or go the GM 4.3l route. Or stay stock, I don't know (see below).

Can anybody give me an idea on ease of (or not) installation and overall cost for each.

Some real world fuel milage and any maintenence issues as well.

I picked up an '87 FJ60 with no rust, no dents, factory original everything except tires and radio, owners manual and tool kit. Vehicle has 165,000 miles and runs pretty good. I did OEM plugs, wires, rotor, cap, and filters. The only issue is it is hard to start when it is cold (more so than the POS '84 I have). I have set all fuel, idle adjustments, timing, valves to FSM specs with no real improvement. Also follow cold starting per the owner's manual.

So I wondered about the FI option or carb rebuild, distributor recurve, and desmog. No smog issue where I live.

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[esh]

2FE is probably your cheapest route, but you will see no improvement to speak of in mileage. For that, buy a lightweight econobox, like an 80s honda, toyota or VW.

If you go for an entire swap, little things will add up fast. Be realistic in your expectations, you own a heavy brick that was designed to go slow really well.

If you *do* want to do a GM swap, I still like the 5.3L vortecs. you can get an '02 with 10 miles on it for about $1700. I think the oklahoma wrecking yard that does clean pulls also has 6L's around the same years for not much more. With the 5.3L you could de-tune via programming and maybe eek more mileage. I was going to do this route but went diesel instead.


Or... sell yours and buy the FJ62 in vehicles forsale with the 13B-T swap. I have driven it and it gets about 23mpg. It is a great truck.

 

[rchalmers3]

Flightmedic,

I don't have any answers regarding prices, performance or maintenance of your proposed ideas.

If, as you say hard starting cold is your only problem, why not adress that instead?

Rick

 

[Texx]

Cheapest way out is to dump the 60 and pick up a 62. that way it's all stock, factory oem. You asked....

 

[Tinker]

You probably need to change all the vacuum hoses & verify that all the smog stuff works. Then send the carb to JimC. Everything else is quite time-consuming & relatively expensive, including changing vehicles.

It's very difficult to justify spending big bucks on a Vortec or diesel swap based on mileage gains. Most everyone I know is hoarding what cash they have now.

 

[fowldarr]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you talk about the chevy 4.3, you mean just swapping the TBI onto your existing engine using the downey kit right? I haven't heard much about it, but seems like it would work, a lot of people have been happy with the 2FE, but would probably be cheaper to figure out why your cruiser is so cold blooded

 

[MO-Troopy]

Fuel injection

I have 2 FJ60's. I did the desmog, then I put in the Weber. It was not that impressive. It was a dog. People are going to say all kinds of things - but I would not do a weber. Then I decided to do the Fuel injection using the throttle body and the Downey conversion. No matter what anyone says doing the throttle body injection absolutely requires that you do a retuning of the chip. using the 4.3 from an Astro van does not work well at all. I now have my 85 with TBI and properly tuned and it is a whole different vehicle. Like a sports car. It has a 5 speed and I got the DUI distributor. It takes alot of work but it is a whole different vehicle. Starts right up, idles right down after warm up. No manual choke nu pedal pumping. Still gets 15 mpg. Can climb hills in 4th gear. Runs great on the highway in 5th gear.
Jeff

 

[esh]

I have 2 FJ60's. I did the desmog, then I put in the Weber. It was not that impressive. It was a dog. People are going to say all kinds of things - but I would not do a weber. Then I decided to do the Fuel injection using the throttle body and the Downey conversion. No matter what anyone says doing the throttle body injection absolutely requires that you do a retuning of the chip. using the 4.3 from an Astro van does not work well at all. I now have my 85 with TBI and properly tuned and it is a whole different vehicle. Like a sports car. It has a 5 speed and I got the DUI distributor. It takes alot of work but it is a whole different vehicle. Starts right up, idles right down after warm up. No manual choke nu pedal pumping. Still gets 15 mpg. Can climb hills in 4th gear. Runs great on the highway in 5th gear.
Jeff

Good anecdotal stuff! Sounds like for all your efforts you now have a better-running, more powerful setup that gets a minimal improvement in mileage. About what I would expect for injection conversion.

What size tires and diff gearing are you running? And what kind of extra weight do you carry?

 

[cruiser88]

The 2fe is one damn awesome conversion. Keep checking the classifieds and EBay for old rusty 62's. You really need to whole rig.....its far less headache and cheaper but in the end your 4.2(60 motor) will be a little more fuel efficient (not that much) and a little more horsepower. Of course the better benefit is the off road performance. The 3fe is a easy motor to work on once you become accustomed to it.You do not need any computer diog. equipment just a manual and parts are still plentiful.

 

[candograge]

ok i think you may be haveing a vacume leak when its cold my son has had same problem we found that it did require some retightening of the intake and exhuast manifold .he has 71 fj40 with 85 engine trans and transfercase. just some place to look hope it helps .

 

[flightmedic]

Thanks for the answers.

Has anyone done the 2fe into a 60?

It does seem like all the options are expensive or time consuming. I really am not sure I want to do the 2fe if the gains are as minimal as they seem, plus I hate to mess with a vehicle that is in such good condition.

As far as the econo car suggestion, I usually drive a Tercel, so that is covered.

So, with the stock set-up and a little help from JimC, I could probably address the issues with the vehicle? I have checked and re-checked the vacuum lines and can't find a problem.

Thanks.

 

[lehiguy]

Frankly, I'd take the simplicity, durability and availability of the GM TBI setup over the Toyota 3F hardware. I have a highly modified TBI setup on my 350 and it was not hard to do once you study the wire harness and cut out all the junk you don't need.

 

[Joshua993]

Flightmedic - did you just sell an FJ62 this last summer? A nice tan in color pristine one...?

 

[esh]

Frankly, I'd take the simplicity, durability and availability of the GM TBI setup over the Toyota 3F hardware. I have a highly modified TBI setup on my 350 and it was not hard to do once you study the wire harness and cut out all the junk you don't need.

That is pretty much the same opinion for the 3FE head conversion. The computer is bullet-proof and adjusts immediately to the block, great OEM exhaust manifold.. and you're keeping everything Toyota. Still have to deal with wiring, Still have to choose whether some kind of desmog is done. Still get to pay higher prices for better quality OEM parts. Parts are built better and last longer, and you don't have to fiddle with them for 100s of thousands of miles. Nothing new under the sun.

 

[lehiguy]

That is pretty much the same opinion for the 3FE head conversion. The computer is bullet-proof and adjusts immediately to the block, great OEM exhaust manifold.. and you're keeping everything Toyota. Still have to deal with wiring, Still have to choose whether some kind of desmog is done. Still get to pay higher prices for better quality OEM parts. Parts are built better and last longer, and you don't have to fiddle with them for 100s of thousands of miles. Nothing new under the sun.

I don't think there has EVER been anything more durable, available or reliable than GM TBI. And it's cheap! You can use an external fuel pump without any problems. If those aren't good reasons to go that route, I don't know what is. Or you could get more complex, less available, less tunable and have to put in an in-tank pump. Everybody has thier opinion, but the more GM stuff ends up on my rig, the better it works. Go ahead, stone me now.

 

[Tinker]

Looks to me like GM fuel injection as in CustomEFIS would be a "custom junkey's" delight. I'm thankful for guys like Lehigh who take pleasure in building something unique. Myself, I'm trying to quit doing that kind of s**t by chanting "No More Custom. No More Custom. No More Custom". So maybe I can learn to control myself. Ultimately, it's a lot better if you get to drive it instead of just working on it.

I guess the deciding factor is whether you'll ever drive it to work. If so, you want reliability & maintainability. When I finally decided to do the 5.7 Vortec & 4L60E 5 years ago, I homed in on reliability & maintainability since my wife would be driving it more than me (still hasn't happened: see brake/axle/suspension upgrade). I needed something I could take to any modern garage, hook up to their machines, & buy parts for off the shelf.

So if you want it relatively soon, straighten out the stock Aisin carb & emissions stuff. If you want it relatively simple, get a 3F head & all the EFI stuff from a 62. If you want a thorough education in EFI, go the GM route.

 

[flightmedic]

Thanks for the replies.

I got it to start 2 mornings in a row with the temperature 6 and 9 degrees respectively. Some stumbling but not too bad.

I think I will go the 3F EFI route, mainly to keep things Toyota.

I just have to convince myself it is OK to alter this rig (it is in really good shape). I don't feel good about tearing into it and changing things, so I guess I need to make up my mind soon.

I did not sell a FJ62, never owned one.

Thanks.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

You can do a lot with a 2FE skys the limit, but deep pockets maybe required.

2F- ETI in red