wompser's m416 trailer build

[CO_Hunter]

Sikaflex is a product someone else here used but that was for steel. I'm pretty sure they have something will work for aluminum. One of the fabricators I talked to said regular clear silicon would bond it tight and seal out water for cheaper than Sikaflex.

 

[Koffer]

Sikaflex 552 is the stuff I used when I put on my Aqualu tub where the steel cowl and the alloy tub came together. when it cured there was no way of getting it apart after that

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Love the frame. Good work!

 

[Phulcrum]

you may already know this, but that pump is made for yachts n junk. so like you turn it on, and once it hits 40 psi it turns off. the idea being it provides full time water pressure without killing your battery(s). i dont know if that makes cents. i see what you're saying though about not having a permanent water tank. i recommend adding a water tank somewhere. it's a nice feature on mine.

again, AWESOME job. i can't say it enough.

 

[wompser]

you may already know this, but that pump is made for yachts n junk. so like you turn it on, and once it hits 40 psi it turns off. the idea being it provides full time water pressure without killing your battery(s). i dont know if that makes cents. i see what you're saying though about not having a permanent water tank. i recommend adding a water tank somewhere. it's a nice feature on mine.

again, AWESOME job. i can't say it enough.

thanks to everyone for the kind words. regarding the pump and tank, I've definitely thought about putting a permanant tank on it, I really like the idea of those who've put them inside the frame rails. maybe if I can find the right tank. actually, a tank (or frame) with a expandable bladder might be even better, so it expands up to fill the entire area. anyway, maybe in a future revision.

the reason I did my water the way I did was so that I can easily reverse the hoses, and pump water from a stream or other water source into my 5 gallon tanks. I can also toss the pick up hose in a stream if I want to take a quick shower, vs. depleting my drinking water.

also, the pump does shut off at a certain PSI, but if there's air in the lines, sometimes it runs continually because it can't build up enough pressure to shut off. I thought having a hard switch might be best to ensure it was not constantly running.

 

[wompser]

for what it's worth, it turns out an m416 trailer can hold exactly 1/3 of a cord of wood, loaded to the top of the rails. (just got some wood this week)

I was hoping to get a lot of work done on the trailer over the holidays, but have been pretty under the weather. I did however get the gas can holder pretty much welded up:

this will fit on the back of the trailer above the bumper and hold two gas cans in an upright configuration. I decided to go with upright in the end vs. horizontal. hopefully I can finish up the paint and hardware this weekend.

it's really a headache to weld thin metal with my welder... lots of grinding and re-welding. I really need a wirefeed welder, because even with a 3/32" rod and 40 amps of power it takes a delicate touch not to blow through the thin tubing. oh well, at least i'm mostly done with the welding on this project.


I've also contacted my local metal shop about building me an aluminum top, based on this design I drew up:

they actually made some interesting suggestions:
+they suggested doing the front and back pieces seperately and then fastening them on vs. one giant sheet. (makes sense to me)
+while they can only bend 5052 aluminum, they suggested a different shop who can build it out of tempered aluminum (a T6 alloy of some kind?)
+they were thinking it needed to be only about 1/16" thick, but I think maybe it might need to be a little thicker. I have not yet done the weight calculations.
+they also suggested using a combination of mechanical fasteners (rivets) and basically a double stick tape to hold the ribs onto the frame. apparently the busses in seattle are made this way. I contacted RS Hughes in seattle and they told me that they have the perfect tape in 3/4" width. it's a 36 yard roll, but kinda expensive at $119 per roll. at least I'd only need one!

don't yet have a quote on what the top is going to cost, I'll work on that this week.

 

[wompser]

something kind of cool happened this week. a forum member (Rem28ga) has been following this build and contacted me...then gave me a free top for the trailer! that's maybe the nicest thing in the history of the internet!

it turns out he is building a (very nice) trailer too, and has decided to go with a steel flat top, as this one was getting a little too high with his rig.

it's really light, I'd say it only weighs 35 pounds or so. basically it's a fairly thin skin, but it's watertight, and heavy duty enough that you can easily set heavy things on top of it, though a roof top tent would require some reinforcement. here's some pictures so you can see how it's constructed:

it's prett cool! it does make the trailer look like a coffin though, according to a friend. maybe that's fitting!

it dosen't quite fit over the rails because I extended the bedliner to wrap over the rails. I'll probably fix this by grinding down the corners just enough that it'll fit. I might still wind up making a custom top, but for now, this works

getting the paint off is going to be a challenge. I don't know what the military uses, but the paint on this thing is really, really hard. so hard that it is pretty much impossible to get off with stripper (haven't tried airline stripper yet though, that's what everyone seems to recommend, however it's not carried by any of the 5 places I looked for it!) i borrowed a friends pressure washer, because I think I can convince a lot of the paint to flake off, but I couldn't get the pressure washer started, I think it needs to be repaired.

at any rate, I also got some other work done this weekend, mainly finishing up the winch cover, and gas can rack:

tapping the holes for the bolt mounts

finished!

still need to coat the gas cans with bedliner, i've been waiting for the weather to get a bit warmer first.


I went a little bit overboard with the wiring for the license plate light. the braided stainless cover was definitely not necessary, but I thought it looked cool!

thanks again to Rem28ga for helping me out!

 

[wompser]

call me crazy, but i'm strongly considering refinishing the top using an engine turned finish... here's a example of what i'm talking about from a panel I made for my computer.

click the link, it's a video that shows how cool this looks in person (pictures dont' do it justice)
engine turning example on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

it's actually not that hard to do, though it does take some attention to detail to do it right. for the piece in the video, I used a drill press, but for a large piece of aluminum, i'd make a machine to do it for me. (and make the individual circles bigger.)

you might wonder what that panel was for... it's not trailer/jeep related, but it became an i/o panel for the WOPR.

the WOPR is the War Operations Planned Response. (hoping some children of the 80s have seen "War Games," otherwise you'll have no idea what I'm talking about.

it's not quite finished in that picture, but you get the idea. pretty wild, right? my wife calls my trailer "the WOPR of trailers" clearly, she's never seen some of the other builds on this forum!

 

[titanpat57]

WOW..top looks great..(hell, for free!)

Big shoutout for one Mud Brudder looking out for another!!!!

Hats off to Rem28GA

Looking terrific...and your computer is completely and totally out of control...and the back rack is sweeeeeeeet

 

[wompser]

did a little more work this weekend on the trailer.

first up, a table for the side. I wanted a surface to cook/set stuff on, and so came up with a design that connects in about 20 seconds, and can fit on either side of the trailer. plus, it's just a tiny bit under 4 feet long, so it can also sit sidways in the tub and create a ledge at the front or back of the trailer. I also recessed the hardware on the underside, I may make this the storage location for the solar panel, as I envision this lid hanging from the underside of the trailer top. (when finished)

a little detail on the edges: after sealing the plywood, I countersunk the screws so there woudn't be anything to catch on/scratch stuff.

the back edge is cut at a 45 degree angle so that it snugs up against the trailer. the tighter you turn the tunrbuckles, the more stable the table becomes.

still need to put some durabak on the edge that connects to the trailer to keep the plywood from scratching the finish.

you can see 3 cutouts below, two are for the tie-downs, the one in the middle is to clear the bolt that is in the center of the fender.

i recessed the top slightly
and the underside a fair amount so that there are no protrusions.

the other activity for this weekend was finishing up the gas can mount. I thought I'd simply cover the gas cans with smooth durabak so there would not be a problem with them rattling against the holder. I was not very happy with the surface it created though, it was both too drippy, and too foamy. (i really tried several different thicknesses and application styles, I just couldn't get it right.)

in the end, I just decided to spraypant the gas cans themselves, and make a rubber protector for the inside of the cage to try and minimize vibration/movement.

here you can see what it looks like. though these rivets sit pretty flush, i did coat them with silicone sealant to keep them from rubbing on the paint.

needed to stretch the rubber just a little bit to keep it taught.

back when boeing surplus sales was around, I picked up a giant sheet of that rubber for around $2. it's 3/8 of an inch thick, and I have found dozens of uses for it. i sure wish boeing surplus was still around!
lift: I know that going with a SOA (spring over axle) lift is the standard way of getting a few extra inches clearance, but I think i've decided against it. measuring it up, it looks like an SOA will gain 6 inches of height, but i'm worried it's going to be TOO high if I do it that way. I still want easy access over the tub. I'm about 6'3" but my wife is shorter, and I think that 6" might be too much for her.

so...

I think i'm going to build 2" or 3" spacers that fit between where the shackles connect and the frame. basically four "T" shaped pieces welded out of steel that will give just the right amount of boost, and will allow for larger tires (if I ever get around to it.) I don't think I've seen anyone else do it this way, but that's what these forums are here for, right?

left to do:
* finish top. may build one from scratch if I can't get the paint off the free one I got, haven't decided yet
* finish electrical. still need to hook up 3rd brake light and running lights.
* finish placement of spotlight(s)
* figure out a wheel for the landing leg
* get propane extension and upright distribution tube.
* get a small rubbermaid cargo box for small parts in the tongue box.
* polish the tongue box.
* make spare carrier underneath in the back.
* fabricate/install lift (probably need to lengthen brake cables and maybe get new shocks too.)
* disassemble wheels and double-check bearings.
* go camping!

 

[Panzer]

Very nice job.
1st - the military paint is called CARC and its nasty stuff. Use a mask when your trying to sand it off.
2nd - Kuddos to the other mudder for hooking you up.
3rd - Nice work on the electronics. That is phase II for my 101 build this summer so I appreciate seeing your work.

 

[loki646]

Any updates?

 

[wompser]

sorry, not really!

i filled up the water and gas tanks, and the trailer really balances nicely now, fixing my center of gravity problem. it's now much more realistic for me to move the trailer (empty) without a spotter.

i've decided i'm definitely going to give the suspention lift a shot, but have not made it down to the steel yard yet.

i'm also in the process of investigating a lift combination for the tow rig... i'm thinking a 3 inch lift with 35 inch tires, but I'm undecided because 35s are so big! I'm not worried about the cost factor as much as I am the "wife factor" to high up in the air and i'm going to be in big trouble! I think i'm going to stay with the stock tires and wheels on the trailer for now, changing them to match the tow rig seems more cosmetic than functional, and it's a headache with bolt patterns, etc.

the pressure washer is now fixed, so i'm going to pick it up and try to blast paint of the top tonight. i'm still leaning towards building my own top though. I have a couple of different designs i've been rolling around in my head, I'll post them up and share for others to consider when i get the time. I think i may have come up with a top design that requires minimal welding and sheet metal bending. I defintely don't want to go into the business of making tops for m416's, but maybe some other ambitious person out there can use my designs to build a couple for themselves/friends.

wish it was easier to find reasonably priced trailers. there's been two in seattle lately: one for $700 that appeared to need a LOT of work, and one for $1600 that didn't appear to be anything special. guess I got mine a the right time.

 

[wompser]

oh, and to panzer (and others considering a similar modification)

I'd really recommend thinking hard before making the toungue too long. I can definitely see the attraction as it is easier to back the trailer up with a longer tongue (and harder to jack knife it) but especailly with a long wheelbase tow rig, there's two main sacrifices with long tongues:

1. the more stuff you put on your tongue, the further your CG moves forward. especially if you're putting gas cans/batteries up there. this makes the trailer harder to manouver when empty, and puts a lot more strain on your hitch.

2. clearance: unless both your tow rig and trailer are WAY up in the air, I can see how you could fairly easily high center your trailer (in betwen the tow rig and trailer) with a longer trailer. this may not be a concern to everyone, but my trailer + jeep is now a really long combination.

just something to think about, as I didn't really think it through before I started welding. if I could do it all over again, I would definitely use a shorter tongue box. in my opinion, the most functional design would be to have a trailer tongue that is extendable, with a range of distance you can select between trailer and tow rig. (i've seen this somewhere else in other builds)

 

[wompser]

one other small update: got the pressure washer fixed to take the paint of the top, but it didn't exactly make the paint explode off the top in the way I was hoping.... in fact, it didn't seem to do much at all. it seems like in some areas the paint adhered the way it was originally intended to, in some areas, it just didn't.

I could maybe have it blasted off with some kind of gentle abrasive, but i'm not sure its worth it. somehow I also wonder if dry ice would help. it might get it cold enough to slightly shrink the aluminum and loosen the paint. looks more and more like I'll be building a custom top though.

 

[wompser]

it's been a little while since my last update, but thought I'd show a little progress: the trailer got a 4" lift. (the jeep's next!)

I was concerned that I SOA lift would be too high, so I did it a little differently than most. basically, it's a box made of 2X4 steel:

in my natural weekend enviornment!

the dog was not impressed, and prefered to sleep it off in the sun.

i really like the height it turned out. the shocks were JUST BARELY long enough to fit, so I have a feeling that they might not last too long, as they're now at maximum extension. i'm also not 100% sure how strong this whole arrangement is. it'll be fine for the highway, but i'll take it easy on off camber situations under load. i'm also not wild about the look, it feels like its kind of hanging out up high. I think there's going to be some sheet metal work done to hide the gap a bit. (when I'm certain it's strong enough.) if I were to do it all over, i'd make these pieces longer and extend down the frame further, however, my chop saw can't cut a 45 degree angle on something this wide, so this was a compromise.




once the lift was done, I also had to adjust the brakes. stealing from someone else on the forum, i made a simple extender:

also needed to lengthen some stuff in the linkages, below is how i did it.

next up is the landing leg. at harbor freight, I got a cheapo toungue jack, which i've taken apart to shorten.

actually, since it appears to be made out of somekind of zinc-based metal, i'm going to be scrapping most of it except the lead screw, and gears and building a new, shorter leg that will fit where the stock landing leg is currently.





everything is working pretty well, but i'm a little disheartened by how quickly we're getting a little rust:

it's not really that bad, but, well, a disappointment. I've taken to storing it indoors. wondering if it has anything to do with galvanic corrision from having a battery grounded to the frame.

 

[tgreening]

it's been a little while since my last update, but thought I'd show a little progress: the trailer got a 4" lift. (the jeep's next!)

I have to say, love the trailer, but not in love at all with the lift. A spring over on a full size truck only nets about 5-6". I can't imagine that on the trailer you'd get much more than 4" considering the dia. of the axle. I know it's "done" at this point but at the very least, if it were me, I'd connect the two lift blocks together to give them some side to side support and ability to resist rolling over.

[]===========[]

Very similar to what people do when doing a front end shackle reversal. It will add a lot more strength to the setup.

I probably missed it in your thread but... where did you get those propane tanks? When the time comes, I'm up for some of those vs the standard fat tanks.

 

[wompser]

fair comment, that's not a bad idea to connect them. I'm not sure it will work in the back because I was planning on mounting a spare in there, but up front it would.

the SOA lift, if memory serves, adds about 6-8 inches. it's a lot, and mostly it's because the spring pack is so thick.

the propane tank came from pro tank supply. at about $160, im not sure I'd get it again over a steel tank, but I plan on using it for other stuff too, where size and weight are at a premium.

 

[tgreening]

fair comment, that's not a bad idea to connect them. I'm not sure it will work in the back because I was planning on mounting a spare in there, but up front it would.

the SOA lift, if memory serves, adds about 6-8 inches. it's a lot, and mostly it's because the spring pack is so thick.

the propane tank came from pro tank supply. at about $160, im not sure I'd get it again over a steel tank, but I plan on using it for other stuff too, where size and weight are at a premium.

I wouldn't have thought that much. I've never bothered to check the spring packs on mine. That aside, why do you want to lift it? As an example I have a CJ with SOA and 37" tires and my 416 is still riding on the factory suspension and tires. I use an adjustable pintle hitch and "may" have moved the lunette on the the trailer. I can't remember right now. It sits just perfect behind the jeep and as it worked out it sits perfect behind my wagoneer with 6" lift and 33s. Got lucky there. I just bought a M101 (US model) and as big as it is, IT sits just right behind the wagoneer as well. Lucky again!

I'm not criticizing your build, it's yours do what you want, I just want to understand the why of it.

 

[fjfar80]

I like your trailer build-up...nice job. Is your dog a GSP?

Cheers.

- Mark