Wintergreen FZJ80 (2 Viewers)

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Joined
Feb 9, 2023
Threads
8
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86
Location
Richmond, Virginia
@matzell & BBRC crew:

Initially was just going to DM this to you Rob, but thought this might be an interesting conversation for a BBRC thread.

Wanted to see if folks would share some thoughts with me on this FZJ80 -- understanding of course you all very likely haven't actually seen this truck.

Has 299k miles on the odometer, but the engine is a swapped out 1FZFE from a LX450. PO says that his dad did that about 16 years ago, but didn't know the specifics. I think pretty safe to say though, it's a very high mileage engine. There's for sure a new radiator and seems relatively well maintained for its age. Body's pretty clean and frame and underbody seem to be in decent shape. My thought it was a good starting point and with some TLC, I could breathe some new life into it for its 300k mile era.

I initially went out to Wintergreen last week and test drove with the guy - maybe 10 miles or so. He has just been using it he says to haul trash to the dump and take his canoe around. Obvious really low compression / power on our little test drive, but it sounded okay and transmission felt good. So while I didn't know exactly what I was looking at under the hood, I knew I was getting a project and for $6k that seemed fine to me.

I probably should have babied it a whole lot more driving back to RVA and taken it home real slow on 250, but I just drove it pretty normally around 60mph down 64. Coming in around Gaskins, a pretty loud rod knock started. I got off the highway and to my driveway and here we are.

As with all LC projects, the sky seems to be the limit on truly excellent engine re-builds, exotic swaps, super-charging, etc. It also seems like you can pretty economically find salvage engines as donors and drop them in.

Do you think its even worth trying to deconstruct this 1FZFE and diagnose what's going wrong? Or should I just try and source a decent donor?

Rob - would you all be able to help and do the swap @ Willow Lawn?

I guess the other important thing here is that my goal here is to have some fun / learn fixing and cleaning up the truck up into a nicer looking reasonably reliable daily driver and back-up to the eurodiesel (when the eurodiesel isn't the back-up to this guy) --- not looking to push the limits on mods or performance or offroading (which is leading me toward the salvage donor thought). In my dream world / next house, I'd have a garage and space to pull the engine out and do some real learning about rebuilds, but I'm stuck with a gravel driveway and small basement for now.
 
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@matzell & BBRC crew:

Initially was just going to DM this to you Rob, but thought this might be an interesting conversation for a BBRC thread.

Wanted to see if folks would share some thoughts with me on this FZJ80 -- understanding of course you all very likely haven't actually seen this truck.

Has 299k miles on the odometer, but the engine is a swapped out 1FZFE from a LX450. PO says that his dad did that about 16 years ago, but didn't know the specifics. I think pretty safe to say though, it's a very high mileage engine. There's for sure a new radiator and seems relatively well maintained for its age. Body's pretty clean and frame and underbody seem to be in decent shape. My thought it was a good starting point and with some TLC, I could breathe some new life into it for its 300k mile era.

I initially went out to Wintergreen last week and test drove with the guy - maybe 10 miles or so. He has just been using it he says to haul trash to the dump and take his canoe around. Obvious really low compression / power on our little test drive, but it sounded okay and transmission felt good. So while I didn't know exactly what I was looking at under the hood, I knew I was getting a project and for $6k that seemed fine to me.

I probably should have babied it a whole lot more driving back to RVA and taken it home real slow on 250, but I just drove it pretty normally around 60mph down 64. Coming in around Gaskins, a pretty loud rod knock started. I got off the highway and to my driveway and here we are.

As with all LC projects, the sky seems to be the limit on truly excellent engine re-builds, exotic swaps, super-charging, etc. It also seems like you can pretty economically find salvage engines as donors and drop them in.

Do you think its even worth trying to deconstruct this 1FZFE and diagnose what's going wrong? Or should I just try and source a decent donor?

Rob - would you all be able to help and do the swap @ Willow Lawn?

I guess the other important thing here is that my goal here is to have some fun / learn fixing and cleaning up the truck up into a nicer looking reasonably reliable daily driver and back-up to the eurodiesel (when the eurodiesel isn't the back-up to this guy) --- not looking to push the limits on mods or performance or offroading (which is leading me toward the salvage donor thought). In my dream world / next house, I'd have a garage and space to pull the engine out and do some real learning about rebuilds, but I'm stuck with a gravel driveway and small basement for now.
I would need to see it in person, I saw the ad on FB. Not sure why I still look but I do?? :) I just happen to have a nice engine with a fresh head gasket and top end overhauled from a wrecked 80 I bought, but the 341k engine in my 96 seems to run really good and I decided to reseal it and drive it. Ideally I would swap in the LS 5.3/ 6L80 combo I have if it ever blew up. With that said, I may have a good engine to swap into yours. I would have to think about the swap at WLSC. It is a big multi day job. I swapped one at my house and it was a lot easier and I have more room there and a gantry crane. I pulled the whole drivetrain complete. And I would still have to pull the engine from the parts truck. I am not afraid of overall mileage on a vehicle, shoot I have one with 296k and the 96 has 341k on it.

lets here what others have to say, and we can talk at the meeting this week.
 
I would need to see it in person, I saw the ad on FB. Not sure why I still look but I do?? :) I just happen to have a nice engine with a fresh head gasket and top end overhauled from a wrecked 80 I bought, but the 341k engine in my 96 seems to run really good and I decided to reseal it and drive it. Ideally I would swap in the LS 5.3/ 6L80 combo I have if it ever blew up. With that said, I may have a good engine to swap into yours. I would have to think about the swap at WLSC. It is a big multi day job. I swapped one at my house and it was a lot easier and I have more room there and a gantry crane. I pulled the whole drivetrain complete. And I would still have to pull the engine from the parts truck. I am not afraid of overall mileage on a vehicle, shoot I have one with 296k and the 96 has 341k on it.

lets here what others have to say, and we can talk at the meeting this week.
Thanks Rob! Great reason to come to my first meeting. I see it’s on Wednesday - what time and where do you all meet up?
 
Mexico on Horsepen. Wed 7 pm
 
Charles,

Definitely look forward to seeing you at the meeting on Wednesday. Like Rob said higher mileage on these is not something to steer away from per se. If I had it to do all over again I probably would have swapped an LS or 2UZ in my old 80. However, if there is a good used 1FZFE floating around at a decent price that also is not a bad option. If this is a learning project for why not do the 1FZ swap yourself?

Is it Wednesday yet?!?! Ready for cervezas and tacos.....
 
Both these guys would swap in something with a little more power and I’m in that same boat. However since you just got the 80 I think getting it running the easiest way possible is best.

If this is for learning then there is no harm in you tearing into the motor yourself to see what’s wrong with it, IMHO. When you figure out what is making the knocking noise it will be easier to make an informed decision on getting the 80 running again. Checking for sparkles in the oil is where I would start however.

Look forward to meeting you Wednesday. 🍻
 
So after spending an ungodly amount of time researching reman engines, car-part.com, talking to Jarco, and reading just about every engine swap thread on mud, I think I’m settled: going to do a GM swap into the 80 series and do it myself (maybe with a little / lot of BBRC help!).

Going to base it all around the LT conversion kit from torfab. It uses the factory engine mounts w a conversion bracket to drop a L83/84/86/87 short block and bolts either an 8 or 10L90 trans to the 80 transfer case w no cuts to the driveline. Looks like there will be a whole bunch of wiring and accessory function solves to work through, but that’s fun of it right?

First things first though: a whole lot more spreadsheet making and getting a concrete guy to pour me a car sized pad in the gravel driveway.

Also went to this guy Mark’s shop @ Performance Automotive on Dickens yesterday to check out his dry ice machine handiwork. Amazing results.

Don’t think i’ll actually be pulling anything til March, but I will keep you all posted. And if anyone is in need of a well worn 4spd transmission or a fzfe core, let me know.
 
So after spending an ungodly amount of time researching reman engines, car-part.com, talking to Jarco, and reading just about every engine swap thread on mud, I think I’m settled: going to do a GM swap into the 80 series and do it myself (maybe with a little / lot of BBRC help!).

Going to base it all around the LT conversion kit from torfab. It uses the factory engine mounts w a conversion bracket to drop a L83/84/86/87 short block and bolts either an 8 or 10L90 trans to the 80 transfer case w no cuts to the driveline. Looks like there will be a whole bunch of wiring and accessory function solves to work through, but that’s fun of it right?

First things first though: a whole lot more spreadsheet making and getting a concrete guy to pour me a car sized pad in the gravel driveway.

Also went to this guy Mark’s shop @ Performance Automotive on Dickens yesterday to check out his dry ice machine handiwork. Amazing results.

Don’t think i’ll actually be pulling anything til March, but I will keep you all posted. And if anyone is in need of a well worn 4spd transmission or a fzfe core, let me know.
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Might want to look at a 6.0/6.2 and 6l80/90 combo. less money and less gears. Plenty of 3/4 ton trucks out there. The more gears the more it wants to hunt for a gear.

Either way, it should be a good build. Might look into buying a whole car from Co-parts or somewhere like that to get all the little parts.
 
For market research. What is a good used 1FZ engine going for?
 
You're going to be the club guinea pig for LS swapping all of our 80s? Thats awesome!!
 
You're going to be the club guinea pig for LS swapping all of our 80s? Thats awesome!!
Thats what I should have done with my old 97. Dropped an LS in it and vroom vroom !!!
 
there's a guy in Oregon, fj80oregon I think, that seems to have made a business out of rebuilding and selling 1fz's. Not sure what his prices are but I do know he ships them.

I've often wondered what I'd do if/when I'm in the same position. LS seems like the it would make the 80 a (slightly) more practical car. (better MPGs, more HP) but not cheap or easy. Putting a new 1fz short block is probably easiest, but not cheap. Rob is obviously more knowledgeable and experienced on these matters, so I'd consider his opinion way more valuable.
 
there's a guy in Oregon, fj80oregon I think, that seems to have made a business out of rebuilding and selling 1fz's. Not sure what his prices are but I do know he ships them.

I've often wondered what I'd do if/when I'm in the same position. LS seems like the it would make the 80 a (slightly) more practical car. (better MPGs, more HP) but not cheap or easy. Putting a new 1fz short block is probably easiest, but not cheap. Rob is obviously more knowledgeable and experienced on these matters, so I'd consider his opinion way more valuable.
I have too many other projects going on right now that need to get done. I am going to run the 1fz in my 96 for now it runs too good. If it blows up in the near future, I will drop the spare one in that I have. It would be just too easy to plug and play. There are several companies coming along with "kits" to do a ls swap, they are just not 100% yet. bolting the engine in is the easy part. making all the gauges play with each other, the shifter to work all the gears, exhaust system, fuel is pretty easy, cooling is easy, Plus the cost of the engine/tranny combo that may go in. Buy a complete wrecked vehicle, buy a crate engine set up $$$$. Most companies are charging $25k plus to do a swap. I would think with a reman 1fz engine, doing it yourself you could be in the 6k range, maybe. Or buy a rusted out 80 with a good engine and go from there.

Not to say that I will not sell my spare 1fz, but I need to get some miles on my 96 before I let it go.
 

I don’t think I am going to do a super detailed step by step build thread - or at least not real time - but I already have a lot of notes and will take a bunch more and turn it into something hopefully useful to publish here.

Rob - hear your point on fewer gears and the well tread path on the LS engines. I drove an 8 speed Tahoe for a couple years tho and I thought it was excellent. This video kinda sold me on the LT vs LS:



It sounds like from Tor (and felt like when driving the Tahoe) that engine and transmission control computers have got a lot better at talking to one another. I’m not quite ready yet to pull the trigger on the car / drivetrain buy just yet, but seeing a number of lower mileage pull outs for sale at prices that’ll fit in my budget for this. The swaptime guy that Tor recommends also seems legit and has some great youtube tutorials.

Right now, I am just researching my way through what I think I will do for each system: returnless pwm fuel pump, power steering, fans, ac, sensors, getting everything to talk to the gauges, etc. Some great muscle car website threads on some of these topics.

While I get my swap plans in place, just finished removing, cleaning and plastic restoring just about every trim piece, making stencils for some of my patches, giving the non-torn leather back seats some TLC, finding the various missing bolts and pieces that got ignored over the years, diagnosing some power lock issuess, dropping the headliner (which I'm going to re-cover), and doing some sunroof maintenance. This weekend i’ll be getting underneath with a paint brush and some cans of chassis saver. The dry ice cleaning mercifully did not reveal any new hidden rust problems and it actually looks pretty incredible aside from the several body panel / rear crossmember issues I already found.

I also did a “spare bedroom delete” and put it all in the attic so I can have some better indoor work and storage space (the things you can do w / no wife or kids!). I found a cement guy who does small jobs off the clock to pour me a land cruiser sized pad in the gravel driveway. Looking forward to that very soon!

All that said, I am sure there will be days I am cursing myself for the project, but having fun thus far.

I’m also following this guy closely: Project "Sparkles"-1997 LX450 Gen V 6.2 Swap - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/project-sparkles-1997-lx450-gen-v-6-2-swap.1328684/ . He's got his drivetrain and the Torfab kit in hand and seems like he's just about ready to start in earnest.
 
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I don’t think I am going to do a super detailed step by step build thread - or at least not real time - but I already have a lot of notes and will take a bunch more and turn it into something hopefully useful to publish here.

Rob - hear your point on fewer gears and the well tread path on the LS engines. I drove an 8 speed Tahoe for a couple years tho and I thought it was excellent. This video kinda sold me on the LT vs LS:



It sounds like from Tor (and felt like when driving the Tahoe) that engine and transmission control computers have got a lot better at talking to one another. I’m not quite ready yet to pull the trigger on the car / drivetrain buy just yet, but seeing a number of lower mileage pull outs for sale at prices that’ll fit in my budget for this. The swaptime guy that Tor recommends also seems legit and has some great youtube tutorials.

Right now, I am just researching my way through what I think I will do for each system: returnless pwm fuel pump, power steering, fans, ac, sensors, getting everything to talk to the gauges, etc. Some great muscle car website threads on some of these topics.

While I get my swap plans in place, just finished removing, cleaning and plastic restoring just about every trim piece, making stencils for some of my patches, giving the non-torn leather back seats some TLC, finding the various missing bolts and pieces that got ignored over the years, diagnosing some power lock issuess, dropping the headliner (which I'm going to re-cover), and doing some sunroof maintenance. This weekend i’ll be getting underneath with a paint brush and some cans of chassis saver. The dry ice cleaning mercifully did not reveal any new hidden rust problems and it actually looks pretty incredible aside from the several body panel / rear crossmember issues I already found.

I also did a “spare bedroom delete” and put it all in the attic so I can have some better indoor work and storage space (the things you can do w / no wife or kids!). I found a cement guy who does small jobs off the clock to pour me a land cruiser sized pad in the gravel driveway. Looking forward to that very soon!

All that said, I am sure there will be days I am cursing myself for the project, but having fun thus far.

I’m also following this guy closely: Project "Sparkles"-1997 LX450 Gen V 6.2 Swap - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/project-sparkles-1997-lx450-gen-v-6-2-swap.1328684/ . He's got his drivetrain and the Torfab kit in hand and seems like he's just about ready to start in earnest.

Sounds like a plan! Warmer weather is only a few months away and a great time to work on it. I have v8 swapped two of my current 40's and have the one for the 80, so one day I am sure I will follow in your footsteps. I have seen that video before, it does look nice and smooth. With the lower gears in the tranny, there is really no need to swap axle gears.
 

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