wideband? (1 Viewer)

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The O2 Sensor is already responsible for sending a deadly accurate signal to the ECU, with the ECU responsible for providing the proper air/fuel mixture. The questions are:
(a) Are you about to spend time and money on something that does not work as well as what you already have?
(b) Is what you already have defective?
(c) Will your O2 Sensor feeding two devices (terminiation points) give one or the other, or both bogus readings?
 
I'm pretty sure that the 3FE sensor is narrow band. While accurate, it wont pickup the wide AFR swings that a wideband is good for. Most wideband kits use the Bosch WB sensor and are VERY accurate, much more so than narrow bands.

The ECU only controls the AFR, based on O2 readings in closed loop, which is not used all of the time, especially during WOT, where tuning is important.

The above info is based on my experience with GM EFI, so take it with a grain of salt. Is there tuning software available to change the fueling/ spark maps for the Toyota ECU?
 
sixty said:
The above info is based on my experience with GM EFI, so take it with a grain of salt. Is there tuning software available to change the fueling/ spark maps for the Toyota ECU?
Click to expand...

Not that I have ever heard of...
 
80s vintage Toyota ECUs do not have removable E/EPROM based boards like Chevy TPI ECUs. You have to de-solder a chip from the board. For a very detailed look at this process see the similar vintage MR2 project in Amazon.com: How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems (Motorbooks Workshop): Jeff Hartman: Books

I use a Innovate Wideband O2 handheld unit that will datalog ~45 minutes of a wideband O2 sensor (it comes with a Bosch 5 wire) and up to 5 additional 0-5v sources (with an add on piece). My dual entry/dual exit cat has an aux O2 bung right in the front of it so the wideband sensor will see exhaust from all cylinders.
 
Desoldering and programming the chip is the easy part, cracking the programming is the hard part. if it has a;lready been cracked & tuning software has been developed, it should be pretty easy.
 
[ My dual entry/dual exit cat has an aux O2 bung right in the front of it so the wideband sensor will see exhaust from all cylinders.[/QUOTE]

Joel,
Where did you source your dual entry/ exit cat? My exhaust currently sounds like a mixture of fart noises & rocks tubling in a can.:hillbilly: Do you have pics of your system?
As for the question about ECU's- you could ditch the OEM & go with a stand alone system such as SDS, Mega squirt, Haltec. I'm not sure you would gain much of a performance edge unless you have some signigicant mods (turbo charger, etc). THEN a wideband sensor is pretty much mandatory- unless you hit the dyno and empty your wallet.
 
rdublt1 said:
[ My dual entry/dual exit cat has an aux O2 bung right in the front of it so the wideband sensor will see exhaust from all cylinders.
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Joel,
Where did you source your dual entry/ exit cat? My exhaust currently sounds like a mixture of fart noises & rocks tubling in a can.:hillbilly: Do you have pics of your system?
As for the question about ECU's- you could ditch the OEM & go with a stand alone system such as SDS, Mega squirt, Haltec. I'm not sure you would gain much of a performance edge unless you have some signigicant mods (turbo charger, etc). THEN a wideband sensor is pretty much mandatory- unless you hit the dyno and empty your wallet.[/quote]

I got my cat from the local exhaust shop, any reasonably decent exhaust specialty shop should be able to get you one.

Modifying the stock engine calibration or going to a standalone system might be worth a little in stock form but probably not much (substantiated by those that have had JET do their chips - little if any noticeable difference). However Tonkota is far from stock and depending on how his ECU is able to adapt to his specific engine configuration he may be able to get more performance (or more safety if he is running lean) with a modified chip. A wideband is a great way to assess if modifications would be of any help.
 
sixty said:
Desoldering and programming the chip is the easy part, cracking the programming is the hard part. if it has a;lready been cracked & tuning software has been developed, it should be pretty easy.
Click to expand...

JET has been doing 3FE chips for years, they will do new configurations for stock motors or work with you on a custom calibration.
 
Downey said:
The O2 Sensor is already responsible for sending a deadly accurate signal to the ECU, with the ECU responsible for providing the proper air/fuel mixture. The questions are:
(a) Are you about to spend time and money on something that does not work as well as what you already have?
(b) Is what you already have defective?
(c) Will your O2 Sensor feeding two devices (terminiation points) give one or the other, or both bogus readings?
Click to expand...

A) I am about to spend money, but it will be to achieve better performance/efficiency over the entire RPM range.

B) My O2 sensors are fine (not throwing codes).

C) I won't be using the stock O2 sensors, see above.

Now, I have more questions.

For the O2 sensors to get a good reading, is there a maximum and minimum velocity of exhaust gas?

What about temperature? If I am running rich will it make the exhaust temps soar?

And I think I will do this, but I'd better hold off for awhile on the spending so the wife isn't upset that the LC gets more gifts than her!!
 
i have used Zeitronix
Wide Band Air Fuel Ratio Meter

in the past on several cars and it has worked well. Priced pretty competitively. I think a general rule of thumb is to keep wide band o2 sensors at least a foot away from exhaust ports or turbo outlets since they are more sensitive to heat than narrow band o2 sensors... but I have run them much closer... like 4 inches from turbine outlets.


PLX makes a pretty slick setup too, but i don't have the same experience with them. PLX Devices Inc.
 
tonkota said:
A) I am about to spend money, but it will be to achieve better performance/efficiency over the entire RPM range.

B) My O2 sensors are fine (not throwing codes).

C) I won't be using the stock O2 sensors, see above.

Now, I have more questions.

For the O2 sensors to get a good reading, is there a maximum and minimum velocity of exhaust gas?

What about temperature? If I am running rich will it make the exhaust temps soar?

And I think I will do this, but I'd better hold off for awhile on the spending so the wife isn't upset that the LC gets more gifts than her!!
Click to expand...

Running LEAN will make your EGT's soar. Running too rich can screw up your O2 sensors. I am not sure about your min/ max velocity question.
 
rdublt1 said:
Running LEAN will make your EGT's soar. Running too rich can screw up your O2 sensors. I am not sure about your min/ max velocity question.
Click to expand...

Don't know much about all the other stuff, but aircraft have exhaust gas temp gages and the process is to lean to max egt then back off a few turns , excess fuel actually cool's the cht. So 2X on LEAN will make temp soar. :cheers:
 
Arron, did you ever run a wideband set-up on your 2FE? If so, did it show any problems in mixture at WOT?
 
I've never seen mine go lean.
 
Moby said:
I've never seen mine go lean.
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That's reassuring. :) You have a bored out TB, cam and porting work, don't you? (trying to reassure myself that it isn't a concern with my 2FE)
 
unless your getting into tuning a wide ban o2 is a waste of money.


If you have a tunable ECU it's an absolute MUST have in the tune process.

I ran mine on a turbo ls/vtec honda engine for years to keep tabs on my a/f ratios both during and after the tune.

tuned it right before the EPA and oil companies decided to put ethanol in EVERYTHING so it was nice to keep tabs on an boosted engine that put out about 200+ more ponies than the Honda engineers intended.



i took a down pipe from a pick-in-pull integra and cut the O2 bung out of it and then welded it into my down pipe about 2-3 inches from the OEM o2 sensor. You can buy the O2 bungs for less than 10 bucks each.

So long as you keep it 12 inches away from manifold collector/turbo you'll be fine, and in front of the cat.

I used the PLX wideban 300 series. Very reliable unit and worth every dime for my usage. I also had a chipped/socketed ECU tuned with CHROME.

those that purchase an O2 sensor just to see what he a/f ratio is might aswell just buy a narrow band gauge from your local autoparts store, save some cash if thats your only issue. It's not 100% accurate but essentially if you can't change your a/f settings it's just for looks anyway.

Unless you can go as far as tuning the engine engine to change those a/f ratios why would you need to watch it?
 
RockDoc said:
That's reassuring. :) You have a bored out TB, cam and porting work, don't you? (trying to reassure myself that it isn't a concern with my 2FE)
Click to expand...

Yup. However I've not had it at WOT up to redline. The stock injectors should be good up to about 190-200 crank hp at 80% duty cycle. I can't confirm that the AFM and ECU calibration will actually support that. Hopefully I'll get the MAF conversion done in the next month or so and get it on a dyno.
 
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