One of the things I love about this board is that there is a good awareness of what is going on outside this group as well. If there were more failures, even off this board, I suspect there would be an awareness. But that’s just my speculation based on the expansive and extensive knowledge base here.
Why LC more expensive than LX? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter studio19atx
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One of the things I love about this board is that there is a good awareness of what is going on outside this group as well. If there were more failures, even off this board, I suspect there would be an awareness. But that’s just my speculation based on the expansive and extensive knowledge base here.
I really don't understand the complaining about Premium gas. It's maybe 30-60 cents more a gallon. Assuming you ran the tank dry, that's what, $12 bucks at fill up? You are driving a mid-high 5 figure truck used and pushing 6 figures new. Most have probably dumped 5-15K into tires, wheels, lifts, bumpers, extended range gas tanks, suspension and whatever else but $10 bucks a fill-up is where "it get expensive soon"? I don't understand the economics of that thinking.........
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- Thread starter
- #43
the rationale is high performance sedan had performance advantage. What advantage does premium fuel has in case of LX?
- Thread starter
- #44
I almost feel like because the prices have come down a lot recently on LX as compared to LC plus availability of good vehicle
There i a huge difference in principals and execution of said principals. Good to be educated on hydraulic suspension theory but in no sane world could you compare Mercedes build quality to Toyota. Mercedes builds vehicles to last the life of a lease. 50 years ago they had reputation like Toyota does now for reliability. Today not so much.
I am guessing if AHC was so fragile Toyota would not put it on LCs in certain markets.
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- Thread starter
- #46
Is it part of Lexus service schedule?
The relevant question is not KDSS vs AHC in reliability. They are both incredibly durable and reliable as Toyota validated 200-series OEM parts.
The real question is upgraded LC suspension vs AHC. aka aftermarket vs OEM.
Hypothetical can be answered with the info on these boards. I've read of way way more coilover this or aftermarket suspension that failures.
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No idea but why complain about $10 a fill-up in an 86K truck? How does that even make sense. How does that get expensive fast?
I never drove an LC of the same year as my LX, I assume they accelerate almost the same. Could not tell you if there is a performance gain. Fuel type was not a factor in my decision. $10 a fill-up is a big deal to a lot of folks, I get that. But not folks who are driving a late model LC/LX.
There are many, many reasons to pick an LX or LC, but I don't see fuel requirements and $10 at the gas station as one of them.
Yes, it is listed in the service schedule. Fluid flush every 60K miles. I just did mine, $250 at the dealer. I don't have the tools, time, work space or mechanical prowess to complete myself. So $250 or so every 4-5 years of average driving doesn't seem outrageous.
Most things that fail are expensive to replace. Not sure why AHC is always singled out. Also, having been a member and LX owner for about 4 months now I see in a lot of threads that people expect to never have any issues, with any Toyota product, ever. So when something fails it's like the end of the world. I bought mine used, I expect there will be things that pop up (why I bought an extended warranty)
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hoser
SILVER Star
I keep hearing the LX was sold 3:1 to the LC. What?
It's less than 2:1
(1.63 to 1 actually)
It's less than 2:1
(1.63 to 1 actually)
| Year | LX570 | LC200 | Total Combined |
| 2020 | 4,512 | 3,146 | |
| 2019 | 4,718 | 3,536 | |
| 2018 | 4,753 | 3,235 | |
| 2017 | 6,004 | 3,100 | |
| 2016 | 5,707 | 3,705 | |
| 2015 | 3,884 | 2,687 | |
| 2014 | 4,052 | 3,158 | |
| 2013 | 4,625 | 3,082 | |
| 2012 | 5,005 | 2,895 | |
| 2011 | 3,167 | 1,662 | |
| 2010 | 3,983 | 1,807 | |
| 2009 | 3,616 | 2,261 | |
| 2008 | 7,915 | 3,801 | |
| 61,941 | 38,075 | 100,016 |
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Where were those numbers pulled from and do they include only sales or are leases included as well? More than half of all new LX's sold are on lease.
hoser
SILVER Star
You can get the sales figures here or even Toyota USA as they publish them every year for every month. Note: the numbers are the # of vehicles sold that year, not sales per model year.
I believe when you lease a vehicle, the lessor (leasing company) holds title to the vehicle as the vehicle was sold to them. So leasing is not even a factor.
I believe when you lease a vehicle, the lessor (leasing company) holds title to the vehicle as the vehicle was sold to them. So leasing is not even a factor.
Exactly! So if leases aren't factored in then that explains the lower ratio between the two models in regards to those figures. New vs. New, LC's are rarely leased while LX's are overwhelmingly leased more so than purchased. Even with that extreme difference the LX is still outselling the LC 2:1. This would explain the larger delta between the available units on the second hand market in conjunction with the lower number of LC units available for sale. Purchase or lease, these units are still out there being driven and ultimately available on the second hand market with the LX in much larger numbers than the LC.
I spoke with the sales manager at my Lexus dealer the last time I was in there for service and I asked him about this very subject (we came close to buying a new LC instead of the LX ourselves so I was curious). He told me that maybe two or three out of every LX they sell is actually on a purchase, the other seven or eight leave on a lease. He also mentioned that of those who lease maybe one or two will actually purchase the vehicle at the end of the lease, the overwhelming majority simply lease another new LX. This is where a large majority of the two to four year old clean LX's on the used market originate from.
hoser
SILVER Star
Just semantics, I guess. There's only ONE original sale of the vehicle. Most definitely, LX's exchange hands more frequently after the initial sale... maybe leased again at the 2 yr mark and maybe again at the <4 yr mark.
To summarize, there are not 3 times more LX's floating around than LC's. LX's are often leased at 2 year intervals which make them more abundant on the used market. So, I do agree with you.
To summarize, there are not 3 times more LX's floating around than LC's. LX's are often leased at 2 year intervals which make them more abundant on the used market. So, I do agree with you.
AHC handles better on-road? Do you have data to support this? Car & Driver compared the two in 2018 and roadholding was within 0.01g of each other. Criticism of handling by C&D applied to both...so it is not like AHC has much (if at all) advantage over KDSS on the highway...both kinda lumbers around on-road.
Off-road. More capable? KDSS has RTI of 647 per Edmunds. I still don't see how AHC offers more compression and droop when it still has the sway bars fully active vs. KDSS disconnecting them.
How is AHC more capable? Even at its highest state, approach/departure angles are still less than LC (stock vs. stock). AHC has those pump/canister exposed to damage off-road. If you take that out with a rock, what happens?
And then AHC HIGH mode is only active below 18 mph. At higher speeds, it slams you down to street/highway height.
As for compliant ride off-road, KDSS relaxes the sways below 40 mph i think.......AHC slams you down on anything above 18 mph.
Finally, you have significantly more maintenance cost along the way to prevent (rare) catastrophic failure.
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wrong. AHC fluid is 40 bucks a liter. do the service every 50 k miles and you are at what? $160 dollars over 200k miles.
AHC might not be ideal for everyone, but in stock form its darn near bulletproof. Cheap to maintain too.
How much does it cost to have dealer flush and maintain it over 200k miles? (because that is what most [non-MUD] LX owners would do.)
CharlieS
GOLD Star
I'm no expert, but I can think of two classic reasons for a difference like this - supply and demand & aspirational product value.
There are more LX on the used market than there are LC, so it is a buyer's market, and sellers will have to offer more competitive prices to move their vehicles.
In terms of aspirational product value, the LC brand is incredibly valuable, and has been for a long time. They are expensive, limited production, and a lot of people want them because of the heritage, as well as the way they are used around the world (UN, Australian outback, middle east deserts). Emotional value is created. The LX may be the same thing in many mechanical ways, but it doesn't carry the branding - at the end of the day it isn't a Land Cruiser.
One of my favorite old Porsche ads captures a similar sentiment: the wording on the ad is "Honestly now, did you spend your youth dreaming about someday owning a Nissan or Mitsubishi?"
There are more LX on the used market than there are LC, so it is a buyer's market, and sellers will have to offer more competitive prices to move their vehicles.
In terms of aspirational product value, the LC brand is incredibly valuable, and has been for a long time. They are expensive, limited production, and a lot of people want them because of the heritage, as well as the way they are used around the world (UN, Australian outback, middle east deserts). Emotional value is created. The LX may be the same thing in many mechanical ways, but it doesn't carry the branding - at the end of the day it isn't a Land Cruiser.
One of my favorite old Porsche ads captures a similar sentiment: the wording on the ad is "Honestly now, did you spend your youth dreaming about someday owning a Nissan or Mitsubishi?"
