Why LC more expensive than LX? (1 Viewer)

[studio19atx]

I have seen that consistently LX prices are significantly less than LCs?
Is it mainly because of the number of units sold per year are low or are there any other reasons?

 

[LBridges]

I believe there are two main reasons.

1) Lower production numbers for the LC vice LX in the USA.

2) In general luxury vehicles tend to depreciate faster.

 

[turbo8]

I have seen that consistently LX prices are significantly less than LCs?
Is it mainly because of the number of units sold per year are low or are there any other reasons?

Another reason might be because of the AHC suspension system on the LX. It is a very good system, but can be expensive to maintain if it was neglected by previous owners.

Also it was thought that you couldn't remove the system and put a conventional system on, but I did without much problem.

 

[TeCKis300]

1) Purists that identify more with the LC
2) Less examples available on the used market

I don't agree that AHC is more expensive to maintain and anecdotal information on these boards does not support that. On the contrary, it's proven exceptionally durable, moreso than even the system on the 100-series with many examples going will into 200k+ miles with nothing than onboard fluid flushes as maintenance. Beyond that, replacement globes and hydraulic struts are cheap to replace. Contrast that with aftermarket coilovers with lots of supporting information on the boards showing that they are barely validated by the aftermarket with many defects, needing an uninstall and sent in rebuild every 30-60k miles, and cost thousands to replace as a system.

The LX represents a rather large value proposition when you consider its features above and beyond the LC. Note late model year LCs got some of these as trickle down. Copied from here

LX features:
1) Substantially more sound deadening
2) Powered rear hatch for open/close
3) Soft open rear lower tailgate, with power latching
4) Surround camera system
5) Ventilated/Heated front row
6) Mark Levinson Reference (only other model to get the Reference system is the LS) w/surround
7) Power side view mirrors with auto-fold (I believe later LC's go this)
8) AHC - AVS, lift on demand, auto and multi-step damping, anti-dive/roll/squat, leveling, etc., etc.
9) AHC underbody armor
10) Shorter roof rack (LC has a longer roof rack with 3 supports per side)
11) Steering headlights (AFS)
12) Projector headlights ('16+ LCs got this)
13) Headlight washers
14) Storage in rear seat armrest
15) Power slide rear seats
16) Second row storage on front seatbacks is a panel vs net
17) 14-way adjustable driver seat vs 10-way LC (passenger 12-way vs 8-way)
18) Power stowage for 3rd row seat
19) All windows down by holding remote door open button for 3+ seconds (not sure Toyota's have this?)
20) Substantial Lexus key fob (LC uses same one as corolla)
21) Fade-To-Off interior lighting (I believe LC got this in 2014?)
22) Puddle and side step lights
23) Door sil lighting
24) Interior ambient lighting
25) Additional trunk side light and open tailgate lighting
26) +2hp / +2tq (requires 91 octane, LC is 87 octane)
27) More luxurious interior appointments
28) Ventilated outboard rear seats
29) Four-zone climate concierge
30) LED Headlamp with AHS Sequential Turn
31) LED Cornering Lamp
32) 12.3-inch high-res split-screen display (LC 9")
33) Head-up display
34) All-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (LC DRCC for 25mph and up)
35) Steering wheel paddle shifter
36) Door puddle projector lamps
37) Rear door retractable sun shades
38) 2020 gets special trims: "LX570 Sport" to "LC Heritage"
39) Dual screen rear entertainment

 

[fjcruising]

Supply and command

 

[Rando Kuruza]

Supply and command

Lol I couldn’t say it any better, in the used market people want land cruisers we can speculate all day long but people are willing to pay more for used cruisers than used LX’s

but this is my speculation.... people buy used cruisers to go off road and people feel cruisers look tougher and are easier to modify, So they will pay more for the perceived toughness and ease of modification and of course the name

more Lx’s are around and in the used market supply and demand come in play.

just try and find a clean used land cruiser lol get ready for some rough times ahead lol

 

[Reckless]

It's pretty much for people who don't like AHC. While I agree AHC is very reliable and more comfortable (need to put AT tires) some people prefer to feel the road. I don't think the LX is a driver's car especially for people who come from BMW type background of rack and pinion steering. The LC gives much better road feel (esp with aftermarket suspension) which is what offroading is about: Being connected to the road. I ended up spending $8k+ extra to get a comparable LC over an LX (plus an additional $10-15k in aftermarket goodies).



I love jumping and hitting pot holes in my LC in the urban jungle of Chiraq.

 

[coleAK]

Another reason might be because of the AHC suspension system on the LX. It is a very good system, but can be expensive to maintain if it was neglected by previous owners.

Also it was thought that you couldn't remove the system and put a conventional system on, but I did without much problem.

Not it at all. It’s simple supply and demand. Less new LCs sold, LC are kept longer, way more used LXs available so the limited number of LCs can demand a higher price.

 

[Tex68w]

1) Three times as many LX's sold every year compared to the LC. 2) LC owners tend to keep their vehicles longer where it's safe to assume that 50% or more of the LX's are lease vehicles and will find their way to the second hand market in 2-3 years. 3) Perceived durability, ruggedness, and aftermarket support of the LC vs. LX.

Stock vs. stock the LX is hands down the better vehicle, but should someone want to go all out with a build for a go anywhere truck then the LC is still king from the aftermarket support standpoint alone. That said, that is slowly changing and with the recent AHC bypass/delete findings thanks to @turbo8 and the Tundra front-end swap mod I'm willing to bet that the LX will become more popular with enthusiasts and it's value on the second hand market will increase, even more so if the LC departs the US market after 2022.

I have a 2019 LX and I still would like a 200-series LC to build a full on off-road/overland travel rig with. Im still kicking around the idea of a SAS 200-series build in a few years.

 

[Madtiger]

For new vehicles, LX outsells the LC because the average folks prefer more luxury...and you get more of it for sure in the LX for $10-15k more. In the USED market, you have the same average folks...looking for the same thing. So, in theory, LX should outsell the LC in the USED market as well.

Now, you can argue that used market has more enthusiasts.......but what percentage is that? I bet you that all the folks here on this forum won’t even make 10% of LC/LX owners (New or used).

And LC or LX used is not exactly cheap either. The off-roading crowd is tiny as it is......and the off-roading crowd that can afford $40k+ USED car is even smaller.

So, while i get the supply & demand argument, i am not sure that it explains everything. At least for me, i am still unclear as to why LC resale is better.

My theory is a combination...sure, supply and demand has something to do with it. But not the only reason. More Toyota dealerships around. Significantly lower maintenance cost...not just parts upkeep, but also Toyota dealers (and 3rd party garages) generally charge cheaper prices for maintenance. The LC shape is more conservative and thus ages a little better over time. Regular gas. And of course, for that 1% crowd, easier and cheaper to modify.

 

[JohnJerk]

I see 2016+ LX’s generally priced higher than comparable LC’s. It is the older trucks that you start to see the LC pricing higher and prior post give good justifications as to why. I am in the market for a 16+ LX - so much vehicle for $60-70k when people are paying 50k for new 4Runners.

 

[M1911]

If you are looking to modify your 200, there are more options for the LC than the LX, due to issues like the AHC.

 

[luke27617]

1) Purists that identify more with the LC
2) Less examples available on the used market

I don't agree that AHC is more expensive to maintain and anecdotal information on these boards does not support that. On the contrary, it's proven exceptionally durable, moreso than even the system on the 100-series with many examples going will into 200k+ miles with nothing than onboard fluid flushes as maintenance. Beyond that, replacement globes and hydraulic struts are cheap to replace. Contrast that with aftermarket coilovers with lots of supporting information on the boards showing that they are barely validated by the aftermarket with many defects, needing an uninstall and sent in rebuild every 30-60k miles, and cost thousands to replace as a system.

The LX represents a rather large value proposition when you consider its features above and beyond the LC. Note late model year LCs got some of these as trickle down. Copied from here

LX features:
1) Substantially more sound deadening
2) Powered rear hatch for open/close
3) Soft open rear lower tailgate, with power latching
4) Surround camera system
5) Ventilated/Heated front row
6) Mark Levinson Reference (only other model to get the Reference system is the LS) w/surround
7) Power side view mirrors with auto-fold (I believe later LC's go this)
8) AHC - AVS, lift on demand, auto and multi-step damping, anti-dive/roll/squat, leveling, etc., etc.
9) AHC underbody armor
10) Shorter roof rack (LC has a longer roof rack with 3 supports per side)
11) Steering headlights (AFS)
12) Storage in rear seat armrest
13) Headlight washers
14) Second row storage on front seatbacks is a panel vs net
15) 14-way adjustable driver seat vs 10-way LC (passenger 12-way vs 8-way)
16) Power stowage for 3rd row seat
17) All windows down by holding remote door open button for 3+ seconds (not sure Toyota's have this?)
18) Substantial Lexus key fob (LC uses same one as corolla)
19) Fade-To-Off interior lighting (I believe LC got this in 2014?)
20) Puddle and side step lights
21) Door sil lighting
22) Interior ambient lighting
23) Additional trunk light and open tailgate lighting

Most of important options are on LC from your list. I think it is supply and demand and LCs are held longer by owners. Many like the luxury cars while at the same not being flashy. As well AHC was big negative for me (expensive to repair and handling was worse, more floaty and I like more precise which KDSS provides)

 

[TeCKis300]

Most of important options are on LC from your list. I think it is supply and demand and LCs are held longer by owners. Many like the luxury cars while at the same not being flashy. As well AHC was big negative for me (expensive to repair and handling was worse, more floaty and I like more precise which KDSS provides)

I road course and drive a coilovered and spherical link suspensioned Porsche sports car that I alternate driving with my LX.

I'll say you couldn't be more wrong on AHC being floaty and handling worse. AHC is the big daddy active version of the passive KDSS system. It corners flatter than any 6,000lb rig has any business doing, with almost no brake dive.

 

[tincan45]

1) Purists that identify more with the LC
2) Less examples available on the used market

I don't agree that AHC is more expensive to maintain and anecdotal information on these boards does not support that. On the contrary, it's proven exceptionally durable, moreso than even the system on the 100-series with many examples going will into 200k+ miles with nothing than onboard fluid flushes as maintenance. Beyond that, replacement globes and hydraulic struts are cheap to replace. Contrast that with aftermarket coilovers with lots of supporting information on the boards showing that they are barely validated by the aftermarket with many defects, needing an uninstall and sent in rebuild every 30-60k miles, and cost thousands to replace as a system.

The LX represents a rather large value proposition when you consider its features above and beyond the LC. Note late model year LCs got some of these as trickle down. Copied from here

LX features:
1) Substantially more sound deadening
2) Powered rear hatch for open/close
3) Soft open rear lower tailgate, with power latching
4) Surround camera system
5) Ventilated/Heated front row
6) Mark Levinson Reference (only other model to get the Reference system is the LS) w/surround
7) Power side view mirrors with auto-fold (I believe later LC's go this)
8) AHC - AVS, lift on demand, auto and multi-step damping, anti-dive/roll/squat, leveling, etc., etc.
9) AHC underbody armor
10) Shorter roof rack (LC has a longer roof rack with 3 supports per side)
11) Steering headlights (AFS)
12) Projector headlights ('16+ LCs got this)
13) Headlight washers
14) Storage in rear seat armrest
15) Power slide rear seats
16) Second row storage on front seatbacks is a panel vs net
17) 14-way adjustable driver seat vs 10-way LC (passenger 12-way vs 8-way)
18) Power stowage for 3rd row seat
19) All windows down by holding remote door open button for 3+ seconds (not sure Toyota's have this?)
20) Substantial Lexus key fob (LC uses same one as corolla)
21) Fade-To-Off interior lighting (I believe LC got this in 2014?)
22) Puddle and side step lights
23) Door sil lighting
24) Interior ambient lighting
25) Additional trunk side light and open tailgate lighting
26) +2hp / +2tq (requires 91 octane, LC is 87 octane)
27) More luxurious interior appointments

+1 to everything @TeCKis300 mentioned. I'd also like to comment on the "AHC is expensive\unreliable\hard to maintain" conversation.

EXPENSIVE

YES! It's hugely expensive. BUT if you are buying used, you are getting it essentially for free. Take a look @turbo8's AHC tear out thread and you will see how many parts are required on the AHC system. This is one system we will likely never see again. It's only found on expensive cars like Rolls Royce and Mercedes anymore. I "think" toyota wanted to show off their flagship vehicle in the US with the best of everything they had a their disposal w/o regard to cost. The result was the LX.

Ask any Lexus service manager about AHC and they will give you a lot of voodoo and vague answers about how much it will cost to replace the system. Quite frankly, that's what dealers do. They replace entire systems. Very seldom do they only replace one component. The component costs are not high...at least the ones that are likely to fail (Actuators, Accumulators)

UNRELIABLE

There are two main things to watch out for:

1) Dust Inhalation\Fluid Contamination - As your system raises and lowers it is exhaling and inhaling the air outside via the AHC fluid
reservoir. That air may contain dust/moisture/contaminates. Eventually these will build up in the fluid and require a fluid change. Failure to do so will kill it from the inside out. This is not a system you want to wait for signs of failure. If you do, it's too late. You have already been running bad fluid through pumps, manifolds, accumulators, and actuators for too long and have probably already ruined the entire system.

2) Rust - Run if you have rusty LX. The number off small high pressure hydraulic lines connection control valves is quite numerous. AHC failure will happen if you have rust. If you are in the northeast, you might be better with an LC or buy a LX with the intent to do the AHC removal after the cancer hits a hydraulic artery.

HARD TO MAINTAIN

If you maintain AHC and avoid rust, it will likely outlive the vehicle. Maintenance should be simple. Change fluid every 50K (or check fluid color) and the accumulators every 100K. *If you do the math, it probably comes out cheaper than traditional suspension over the life of the vehicle. Both of these procedures are doable for the average guy in the garage as well.

*Cost Stock to Stock is marginally more. LX Stock to AM LC suspension, probably less. But you get 2.5"+ life with stock AHC.

 

[dnh1]

I road course and drive a coilovered and spherical link suspensioned Porsche sports car that I alternate driving with my LX.

I'll say you couldn't be more wrong on AHC being floaty and handling worse. AHC is the big daddy active version of the passive KDSS system. It corners flatter than any 6,000lb rig has any business doing, with almost no brake dive.

Agree with you wholeheartedly that an LX tuned to Sport+ is going to corner way better than any LC.

 

[Madtiger]

+1 to everything @TeCKis300 mentioned. I'd also like to comment on the "AHC is expensive\unreliable\hard to maintain" conversation.

EXPENSIVE

YES! It's hugely expensive. BUT if you are buying used, you are getting it essentially for free. Take a look @turbo8's AHC tear out thread and you will see how many parts are required on the AHC system. This is one system we will likely never see again. It's only found on hugely expensive cars like Rolls Royce and Mercedes anymore. I "think" toyota wanted to show off their flagship vehicle in the US with the best of everything they had a their disposal w/o regard to cost. The result was the LX.

Ask any Lexus service manager about AHC and they will give you a lot of voodoo and vague answers about how much it will cost to replace the system. Quite frankly, that's what dealers do. They replace entire systems. Very seldom do they only replace one component. The component costs are not high...at least the ones that are likely to fail (Actuators, Accumulators)

UNRELIABLE

There are two main things to watch out for:

1) Dust Inhalation\Fluid Contamination - As your system raises and lowers it is exhaling and inhaling the air outside via the AHC fluid
reservoir. That air may contain dust/moisture/contaminates. Eventually these will build up in the fluid and require a fluid change. Failure to do so will kill it from the inside out. This is not a system you want to wait for signs of failure. If you do, it's too late. You have already been running bad fluid through pumps, manifolds, accumulators, and actuators for too long and have probably already ruined the entire system.

2) Rust - Run if you have rusty LX. The number off small high pressure hydraulic lines connection control valves is quite numerous. AHC failure will happen if you have rust. If you are in the northeast, you might be best with an LC or buy a LX with the intent to do the AHC removal after the cancer hits a hydraulic artery.

HARD TO MAINTAIN

If you maintain AHC and avoid rust, it will likely outlive the vehicle. Maintenance should be simple. Change fluid every 50K (or check fluid color) and the accumulators every 100K. If you do the math, it probably comes out cheaper than traditional suspension over the life of the vehicle. Both of these procedures are doable for the average guy in the garage as well.

What you wrote kinda sounds like a freaking nightmare on LX older than a few years! LOL

I will defer to the experts....but dust...so, if you off-road often, then you have to change the fluid more often??!! There's no filter or something to prevent AHC from ingesting dust???

And then rust??!! Crap, i am already worried about KDSS bolt rusting...AHC seems a lot more complex in regards to rust prevention!

AHC is cheaper to maintain than LC's traditional suspension?? How?

 

[Madtiger]

I road course and drive a coilovered and spherical link suspensioned Porsche sports car that I alternate driving with my LX.

I'll say you couldn't be more wrong on AHC being floaty and handling worse. AHC is the big daddy active version of the passive KDSS system. It corners flatter than any 6,000lb rig has any business doing, with almost no brake dive.

I do agree that KDSS is ordinary at controlling LC's body movements. But then again, i drive like a grandma.

 

[coleAK]

What you wrote kinda sounds like a freaking nightmare on LX older than a few years! LOL

I will defer to the experts....but dust...so, if you off-road often, then you have to change the fluid more often??!! There's no filter or something to prevent AHC from ingesting dust???

And then rust??!! Crap, i am already worried about KDSS bolt rusting...AHC seems a lot more complex in regards to rust prevention!

AHC is cheaper to maintain than LC's traditional suspension?? How?

I off road often (and Tow a camper all summer) and glacier silt is some of the worst dust out there for getting in everything. I change the AHC fluid every 30k, it’s inexpensive and very easy, takes less than an hour between prep and clean up, my kids did then entire process at 60k with my oversight. Also I have no rust on my ‘13 LX on its 7th winter in Alaska.

 

[99toylc]

I think I agree with most reasons related to LX outselling LC 3 to 1 and supply and demand theory.
I can see however a few more reasons that people would rather drive an LC vs LX:
- LC never stands out much in the looks department and only people who know have any idea how expensive they are and they essentially fly under the radar...
I don't think most potential buyers want their bosses / co workers and / or business customers or partners to know that they can afford such vehicle and the LC fits the incognito situation nicely, while the Lexus badge and all that bling does not...
I can almost hear the " We must be paying you too much..." comments.
- Lets face it: not all of us LC/LX owners are able (financially) to go to the dealer and pick the newest model / year we want, so the fact that we can patiently wait until the depreciation puts the dream truck into our financial crosshairs has something to do with it's popularity and the fact that that Lexus image is not ideal for average Joe due to it's stigma.
- A lot of regular folks think that only a Lexus dealer will work on a Lexus and parts / labor have to cost more...
- How many off the street people know that LX570 is the Loaded up version of the LC with some relatively small diffrences ? (I know we all do, but we are not the regular people)
- On the other hand I and many others will happily take advantage of this market situation and drive the LX... just not to the business meetings and I for that matter will try to take some of the bling off...