Which Winch "Mode" To Use When Snatching? (12K Milemarker Hydraulic)

[Chaldaean]

I've got a Milemarker Hydraulic HI12000 winch (install thread here) and a question.

To preface my question, here's some basic info that you may already know. There are four modes that the winch can be set to:

(1) Low Gear
(2) High Gear
(3) Mechanically Locked. This is where both High and Low gear are both engaged at the same time, which mechanically locks the winch in order to hold a load (for more info, see page 11 of the Milemarker instruction manual here).
(4) Freespool

Firstly, I do have a few snatch straps and realize that the proper way to pull another vehicle out with "a running start" is to use one. My question concerns the situation where a snatch strap is either not long enough or not available.

Secondly, I'll give the following fictional scenario to illustrate my question:

Let's say that a buddy is stuck and needs to be pulled out. However, the only ground around his vehicle is pure ice. If you try to winch him out slowly, your truck will just slide toward his on the ice. The only way to pull him out would be to spool out some cable, leave some slack, get "a running start" and use the momentum of your rig to generate enough force to yank him out. Basically, this is putting the winch in place of a snatch strap.

Which of the three modes above (High, Low or Mechanically Locked) would be best for pulling your buddy out?

I would think that if the winch were in High or Low, the force of pulling another vehicle would be first transferred to the mechanical gears within the drum and then the hydraulic pressure would stop the spool from turning. In this scenario, the force would be, ultimately, stopped by hydraulic pressure against the normally-closed solenoid valve (I think).

If the winch were in Mechanically Locked mode, the force of pulling another vehicle would be only transferred to the gears within the drum. In this scenario, the solenoid valve would not experience any force.

I guess my basic question is: Which mode would be more robust; less prone to breakage when pulling another vehicle?

Thanks,

- Josh

 

[GulfShoresFJ60]

The issue with snatching with a winch is that is winch cable is not rated for any impulse force. The winch is not designed to be snatched with and the cable will most likely break. A snatch strap can handle much more force than a cable, and are actually designed for the impulse force.

In addition, the snatch straps also stretch and then use a rubber band effect which "snatches" the vehicle out. A winch cable just gets all the force applied at once without the building up of the force due to stretch.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Excellent install. I plan on doing the exact same thing.

He's running synthetic line. Does synthetic line have any stretch to it like a snatch strap?

I'd be more worried about shattering the internals of the winch. It's a lot cheaper to replace a snatch strap than a winch.

 

[yycranger4x4]

Use only a snatch strap when performing a snatch recovery. If you use a winch line when doing this, I hope that no one else is around, cause someone is going to be killed.

Synthetic or not, winch cable is not designed for this. It is designed for a constant and gently applied load. A snatch strap is designed to be elastic and thus pulls vehicles out of where they may be stuck by using kinetic energy.

Attaching a snatch strap to the end of a winch cable to gain length is also bad. The winch cable will still see the impact forces from the snatch strap and will break. Use only the proper recovery points on a vehicle for winching or snatch recoveries.

 

[stuckinnz]

x2

if the cable doesn't break your winch bar proberly will and that's gotta hurt

 

[roalco]

X3, no, X a million!
Snatch recoveries are the most dangerous recovery practice as the insantaneous dynamic loading (forces) can be astronomical (depending on the speed, the masses of the two vehicles and the ground force of the stuck vehicle). With a good, high stretch (30%) nylon line (or strap) forces can easily be in the tens of thousands of pounds. Using a non stretch line the insantaneous dynamic forces easily reach the multiples of tens of thousands of pounds far exceeding the breaking strength of your winch cable (wire or amsteel, both stretch about 3%), not to mention your winch body and gears, winch attachment bolts, bumper mounts and on down the chain.
If you need to lock a hydraulic milemarker, lock the gear train, as sudden shock loading in a hydraulic setting (remember, there is no major difference between a hydraulic motor and a hydraulic pump) could easily blow a line, solenoid, or your power steering pump seals. Unpleasant.
Questions for all, is your snatch strap in 100% condition??? Is it from a reputable (tested and marked) supply or offshore??? Do you know it's range of stretch (versus load)??? Do you know the ground foce of the disabled vehicle?? What grade bolts (and what condition...) are your attachment points??? Are they genuine hi-tens, or cheap offshore from a farmars supply???
30% stretch at 30-45 thousand pounds is one helluva snap.
Be safe.

 

[craptabulous]

don't tug on some one using a winch you will blow the planetery's apart . seriously that winch will blow apart internally or get ripped right off . but in reality the gears will break. seen it done, laughed at the owner . again "Kaboom" this is the noise you will hear .

hook your snatch strap onto a secure recovery point with shackles and give it .

personally i just strap my vehicle to a tree and then winch some one out if i don't have the traction . if the closest tree is 300' away then i get out my 300' of straps cables and chains, be prepared .

 

[greentruck]

I'm with craptabulous on this. The place to use the snatch strap is on the anchor side of things. Use only the winch cable (or a chain as an extender only if absolutely necessary and nothing else if available as an extender) on the winch side of things.

 

[craptabulous]

winches are for winching, that is all they are for .

you might as well hook a come along up for a snatch strap while your at it.

 

[greentruck]

Hey, don't knock come-alongs.
That's all I got in the magazine right now. I better not plan on getting very stuck in an 80 with two of those, three snatch straps and whatever chain I have stashed on board...

Actually, knowing that's all I got to work with is a pretty serious deterrent to getting stuck. It's worked for the last couple of decades.

 

[Chaldaean]

Thanks for all the replies. I hear you all loud and clear.

The winch is from snatching!

Although the scenario I gave was fictitious, the impetus for the question was not.

A buddy and I (each in our own rig) were out wheeling when we reached a water crossing that neither of us were familiar with. It looked deep (turned out it was -- over the hood at some points ) and was 500 yards or so wide.

We thought it was a good idea to tether during the crossing for quicker extraction, if needed, so I spooled out 50' of line, hooked it to his rear tow hook and we ventured slowly across (the winch mode was in the "Low" position during the traverse, by the way).

The water was deep so I couldn't see how taut or slack the line was and every so often the vehicle in front of me would speed up (or I'd slow down) and I'd get an abrupt jolt. This caused me to wonder what sort of damage I might be risking by loading the winch line/winch this way.

Thanks, again, for the replies

 

[GulfShoresFJ60]

I know this has already happened, but that would be a good use for a snatch strap. The jolt wouldn't be so pronounced and the possibility for damage is significantly reduced.

 

[Chaldaean]

I know this has already happened, but that would be a good use for a snatch strap. The jolt wouldn't be so pronounced and the possibility for damage is significantly reduced.

Yeah, good point; definitely the way to go next time. Thanks.