275/70 18s in E rating. They are fantastic.
Where does LC end and Rubicon begin?
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People not from CO have know idea how bad the Yellowjacket population is. I put up traps every year around my property and have easily killed over a thousand just in my backyard early, not including every other neighbor who does the same. I would never own a convertible of any sort in CO. It’s sucks getting bitten while driving. Happened twice when the windows were down. Once in vail and another time in Louisville. Windows up!
Growing up in Tahoe yellow jackets are very bad there as well.People not from CO have know idea how bad the Yellowjacket population is. I put up traps every year around my property and have easily killed over a thousand just in my backyard early, not including every other neighbor who does the same. I would never own a convertible of any sort in CO. It’s sucks getting bitten while driving. Happened twice when the windows were down. Once in vail and another time in Louisville. Windows up!
I had my run in with a swarm of stinging insects in Florida. Never did figure out what kind they were.People not from CO have know idea how bad the Yellowjacket population is. I put up traps every year around my property and have easily killed over a thousand just in my backyard early, not including every other neighbor who does the same. I would never own a convertible of any sort in CO. It’s sucks getting bitten while driving. Happened twice when the windows were down. Once in vail and another time in Louisville. Windows up!
Maybe chiggers or no-see-ums. Both are nasty in summer. Just keep the top closed during spring and summer.
No see’ums get on you generally in sandy areas near the beach. They’re the size of fleas and irritating...but no safety concern.
I’ve never come across chiggers that I’m aware of in Florida. I’m sure they’re around, but whatever nuisance bite they have, it’s never risen to the level that I’ve googled to see what it was that bit/stung me.
the swarm that was on my truck was bees, wasps, or hornets...had my windows been down when I hit their nest, even putting the windows up might not have solved things. Bees are the only ones that sting once...hornets and wasps sting repeatedly.
being in Florida I’ve been stung by lots of bees, wasps, etc...but that’s the only time I was ever chased like that for so long. It was bizarre. Reminded me of the stories of Africanized bees following someone for miles.
Africanized Honey Bees - Solutions for Your Life - University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences - UF/IFAS
UF/IFAS Extension bring the power of UF’s research and education to every county in Florida. We support farmers and growers, home and business owners, youth and families through science-based programs, information and accessible expertise.
I've owned 3 Wranglers (still have my favorite one) and 2 LC's (have a 2020 now). They're 2 completely different animals, yet both good choices depending on what you want to do and your wallet. Jeeps aren't as comfortable, aren't as durable but more fun and cheaper to work on. LCs are more durable, more comfortable, more daily drivable, but more expensive, and less fun. Most people who buy Jeeps for the fun factor usually end up trading it in once they realize how uncomfortable and inconvenient they are (lack of interior room).
Best Of 2021: Jeep Wrangler Engine Explodes After Owner Tows Vehicle In Gear And Revs It To 50,000 RPM - Jalopnik
Was 2021 a great year? Not exactly! But we did have some posts that did good traffic. Take a walk down memory lane with us, as we think back on 2021, a year that will seem much better by this time in 2022.
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If that was the LC, the RV engine would have exploded first.
No-see-ums are all over the Southern states, not just sandy areas. Many folks in FL. with swimming pools have no-see-um bug screen cages and patios screens for a reason. Sometimes unnecessary, just depends where they are seen most often. I’ve never been attacked by them on the beaches of Florida but it does happen...generally when the air is thick and zero breeze. They are generally near water sources without constant flow. I saw a video of a family on a sailing boat just off Fl in the gulf swarmed in no-see-ums. They had to go into the down cabin and tape every single access point, including vents. They are nasty bugs. The worst one in my opinion is the Yellow Fly. It looks like a bee and it will chase and bite you. These suckers are worse. FYI- They are attracted to dark colors. So wear light colored clothing in the summer. Have you been bitten by one being from FL.? I know along Destin beach,Seaside area, they use these huge sticky black balls. Very effective at killing these ridiculous things.No see’ums get on you generally in sandy areas near the beach. They’re the size of fleas and irritating...but no safety concern.
I’ve never come across chiggers that I’m aware of in Florida. I’m sure they’re around, but whatever nuisance bite they have, it’s never risen to the level that I’ve googled to see what it was that bit/stung me.
the swarm that was on my truck was bees, wasps, or hornets...had my windows been down when I hit their nest, even putting the windows up might not have solved things. Bees are the only ones that sting once...hornets and wasps sting repeatedly.
being in Florida I’ve been stung by lots of bees, wasps, etc...but that’s the only time I was ever chased like that for so long. It was bizarre. Reminded me of the stories of Africanized bees following someone for miles.
Africanized Honey Bees - Solutions for Your Life - University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences - UF/IFAS
UF/IFAS Extension bring the power of UF’s research and education to every county in Florida. We support farmers and growers, home and business owners, youth and families through science-based programs, information and accessible expertise.sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu
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I've seen the Yellow Fly, down along the 30A corridor in Florida but it's been a while. A buddy and I were chased by African Killer Bees back in the 90's when we were growing up. We were both on riding lawn mowers and the vibration of the mower is what triggered them. My buddy got hit over 30 times but was lucky enough to outrun them as he got to safety in the house, I was already 50 yards in front of him lol.
Lol yeah those yellow flies we call deer flies. And they will chase you. When they got on you on the water you either have to kill them or get on a plane and go a decent distance. In the woods when they get on you, if you run a quarter of a mile or so, you can usually lose them. And they’re not normally a swarm. You might get into a mess of them but they don’t swarm like bees or wasps-they’re more like horse flies.No-see-ums are all over the Southern states, not just sandy areas. Many folks in FL. with swimming pools have no-see-um bug screen cages and patios screens for a reason. Sometimes unnecessary, just depends where they are seen most often. I’ve never been attacked by them on the beaches of Florida but it does happen...generally when the air is thick and zero breeze. They are generally near water sources without constant flow. I saw a video of a family on a sailing boat just off Fl in the gulf swarmed in no-see-ums. They had to go into the down cabin and tape every single access point, including vents. They are nasty bugs. The worst one in my opinion is the Yellow Fly. It looks like a bee and it will chase and bite you. These suckers are worse. FYI- They are attracted to dark colors. So wear light colored clothing in the summer. Have you been bitten by one being from FL.? I know along Destin beach,Seaside area, they use these huge sticky black balls. Very effective at killing these ridiculous things.
the no seeums are pretty much exclusively near salt or brackish water. I’ve got a fish camp about a mile from the coast in north Florida and the no seeums will eat you alive. Much further than that and they don’t really get on you...then it’s just mosquitoes for the most part.
I’ve never been bitten by a no see um freshwater fishing-just mosquitoes. The screens on my patio are for the mosquitoes.
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Yikes! We are looking at a home in Inlet beach area and Jupiter.
we have no-see-ums in E.Tennessee but they stay near water and aren’t a problem like Gulf Coast. You ever SUP board in Brackish water? I know people swim in it but it’s pretty cool to see it from above.
-I wonder if the original poster ended up buying a Jeep or maybe scared by all the flying insect stories.
If I had room, I would seriously consider the new 392 Jeep just for the perfect weather day...top down kind of fun along the coast. I know they get a bad wrap for dependability but honestly who cares if you’ve got the cash and it’s just another quiver in the garage to play with.
I own a 200 Series and a Jeep Wrangler. They are complimentary I and love them both.
The Cruiser is quiet, comfortable, fast, voluminous and suited to everything but technical off road terrain. Yes it can be driven on technical routes but this is stressful because it is outside the sweet spot of it's design envelope. It excels in covering long distances at speed and on open tracks and washboard. Often this is ideal for any given trip.
The Jeep is loud, slow, uncomfortable, poor handling on pavement and small by comparison. But when the trails are tight, rocky, require high ground clearance, high approach/departure/breakover angles or a high crawl ratio then the Jeep is in it's element and is fit for purpose. I use a hardtop on the Jeep year round. The convertible aspect is unimportant and has been mentioned by others, overrated. The Jeep is light, nimble and has an undeniable fun factor when driving it, traits the Cruiser does not share.
It is an exaggeration to say that the Cruiser can do everything the Wrangler can. It cannot, certainly if you have any desire to maintain mechanical sympathy. This is in large part because the Cruiser has a curb weight that is 1200 more pounds than the Wrangler. Combine that with larger overall size, smaller tires and less suspension travel and the Cruiser is simply outclassed on technical routes. This is not a criticism of the Cruiser, it is without peer most of the time. But when the route is difficult or narrow the Jeep wins. That said for drivers who have no desire to travel technical routes then owning a Jeep would be irrational given the multitude of shortcomings on all other terrain and on pavement.
The animosity towards Jeeps by everyone who is not a Jeep owner is puzzling. No one complains that a Porsche is a bad daily driver because it is understood to have a specific purpose and design intent. Wranglers are no different, they are built to purpose and should not be compared to traditional SUVs or other cars. And I have had no maintenance issues in over 100K+ miles of driving and 1000s of trail miles. Yes repairs have been required as a result of wear and tear but nothing that has ever come close to leaving me stranded. The issues with reliability are exaggerated and often (not always) the result of "overbuilding" with too much stuff or too large a tire or frankly straight out abuse. And for running around town the Jeep is actually quite enjoyable. It is easy to park, plenty fast at city speeds and you never give a second thought to door dings or to other issues as a result of careless drivers. Working on the Jeep is also simple and enjoyable as very little is covered up by panels with hidden fasteners and the high ground clearance makes getting under it a breeze, no lift or ramps needed. As for winter driving, it is a non issue with proper AT or snow tires.
The vehicles are simply two different tools. Having both rigs in the stable covers most off road travel scenarios, short of high speed Baja style driving. It is simply about having more tools in the tool box. And if you have the means, more tools are always better.
The Cruiser is quiet, comfortable, fast, voluminous and suited to everything but technical off road terrain. Yes it can be driven on technical routes but this is stressful because it is outside the sweet spot of it's design envelope. It excels in covering long distances at speed and on open tracks and washboard. Often this is ideal for any given trip.
The Jeep is loud, slow, uncomfortable, poor handling on pavement and small by comparison. But when the trails are tight, rocky, require high ground clearance, high approach/departure/breakover angles or a high crawl ratio then the Jeep is in it's element and is fit for purpose. I use a hardtop on the Jeep year round. The convertible aspect is unimportant and has been mentioned by others, overrated. The Jeep is light, nimble and has an undeniable fun factor when driving it, traits the Cruiser does not share.
It is an exaggeration to say that the Cruiser can do everything the Wrangler can. It cannot, certainly if you have any desire to maintain mechanical sympathy. This is in large part because the Cruiser has a curb weight that is 1200 more pounds than the Wrangler. Combine that with larger overall size, smaller tires and less suspension travel and the Cruiser is simply outclassed on technical routes. This is not a criticism of the Cruiser, it is without peer most of the time. But when the route is difficult or narrow the Jeep wins. That said for drivers who have no desire to travel technical routes then owning a Jeep would be irrational given the multitude of shortcomings on all other terrain and on pavement.
The animosity towards Jeeps by everyone who is not a Jeep owner is puzzling. No one complains that a Porsche is a bad daily driver because it is understood to have a specific purpose and design intent. Wranglers are no different, they are built to purpose and should not be compared to traditional SUVs or other cars. And I have had no maintenance issues in over 100K+ miles of driving and 1000s of trail miles. Yes repairs have been required as a result of wear and tear but nothing that has ever come close to leaving me stranded. The issues with reliability are exaggerated and often (not always) the result of "overbuilding" with too much stuff or too large a tire or frankly straight out abuse. And for running around town the Jeep is actually quite enjoyable. It is easy to park, plenty fast at city speeds and you never give a second thought to door dings or to other issues as a result of careless drivers. Working on the Jeep is also simple and enjoyable as very little is covered up by panels with hidden fasteners and the high ground clearance makes getting under it a breeze, no lift or ramps needed. As for winter driving, it is a non issue with proper AT or snow tires.
The vehicles are simply two different tools. Having both rigs in the stable covers most off road travel scenarios, short of high speed Baja style driving. It is simply about having more tools in the tool box. And if you have the means, more tools are always better.
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Jupiter is great...it’s far enough north you’re not messing around with the snarl that is Miami...but far enough south that you can still dive for lobster and surf. And deep sea fishing (in the blue water) isn’t too far offshore.Yikes! We are looking at a home in Inlet beach area and Jupiter.
we have no-see-ums in E.Tennessee but they stay near water and aren’t a problem like Gulf Coast. You ever SUP board in Brackish water? I know people swim in it but it’s pretty cool to see it from above.
-I wonder if the original poster ended up buying a Jeep or maybe scared by all the flying insect stories.
And yes I’ve paddleboarded salt, brackish, and freshwater. This past weekend I actually rigged up a retractable skeg for my “scary water” paddleboard...funny thing about paddleboarding rivers is if you hit a submerged log with your skeg, you’re IMMEDIATELY off the board and underwater. There’s no recovering. And a lot of our freshwater lakes and rivers are quite murky due to fertilizer runoff from golf courses and lawns.
in Florida I sometimes wish I had a motorcycle for the beautiful days...but Florida is generally hot and humid...so it’s generally a sweaty ordeal by the end of those beautiful days on a motorcycle. Sunroofs and windows down with a muscle car and nice exhaust is the preferred long term “motorcycle” for me...and the land cruiser is the preferred wrangler.
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Every time I spot a log, I take a longer look.
I SUP board everywhere, including lakes with gators and have never seen one. But boy oh boy, will some tourists point out to you that you’re SUP boarding in water with alligators because they see the sign saying so. 
While I was SUP boarding on Western lake(Grayton Beach) I was near the pedestrian bridge and I hear some lady tell me the sign says “watch for Alligators” and I replied nicely, “thanks but gators prefer sidewalks because they are attracted to the heat”. She just looked at me all confused while looking around. . I just kept boarding.
Couldn't have said it better and both are exemplars in their respective areas of intended use.
Not to counter anything but I think where the fuzziness comes is that there is significant overlap and most don't have the benefit of singular tools in the stable. Unlike a Porsche that has distinctly diametric qualities. Then there's the aftermarket allowing one to further tailor their vehicle one way or another. Out of curiosity, I dug up some numbers.
RTI - 200-series articulation scores exists in the same rarefied air
Suspension travel - measurements are from wheel center to fender lip so they are comparable without tire variables. Jeep stuff referenced here
| Front Max Compression | Front Max Droop | Front Travel | Rear Max Compression | Rear Max Droop | Rear Travel | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| LX stock | *16" | 24.5" | *8.5" or ~9" | - | 26.625" | ~10" |
| LX, Sensor Lift, OEM Front Spacer | *16" | 25.375" | *9.375" or ~10" | *17.5" | 26.625" | *9.125 or ~10" |
| LX, AHC delete, Tundra arms, Kings suspension @turbo8 | 26" | ~12.00" | 27.5" | ~10.5" | ||
| LC, Tundra arms, Stock shocks, OME 440lb spring @WesSiler | ~11" | ~10" | ||||
| JL & JLU Sport S | 15.63" | 21.50" | 5.88" | 16.88" | 24.00" | 7.13" |
| JS, JLU, & JT Rubicon | 15.75" | 23.63" | 7.88 | 17.50" | 26.00" | 8.5" |
| JL w/ Fox 2.0 | 16.20" | 25.8" | 9.5" | 16.7" | 26.8" | 10.10" |
| JL w/ King 2.5 | 18.11 | 28.87" | 10.76" | 19.24" | 30.00" | 10.76" |
*Measured, Not Maxed Out
So while the 200-series can put up serious numbers, to your point, Jeeps can be more specialized with advantages and clearances for certain tasks.
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Over a technical trail, there is nothing out there (at this time) that can compete with a Wrangler Rubicon...stock vs. stock.
And if we take into consideration aftermarket mods, then there is even a wider gap because you can get so much more in terms of value than you can get in a LC/LX. Aftermarket support for Wrangler is second to none...far surpassing anything for LC/LX. The closet Toyota vehicle with off-road support is the Tacoma...and that is far behind Wrangler.
Two totally different vehicle with different priorities. No one would ever make claim that Wrangler can match the versatility, comfort, towing, and durability of the LC. And we should make the claim that LC is a mountain goat on par with Wrangler Rubicon over the toughest technical terrain.
And if we take into consideration aftermarket mods, then there is even a wider gap because you can get so much more in terms of value than you can get in a LC/LX. Aftermarket support for Wrangler is second to none...far surpassing anything for LC/LX. The closet Toyota vehicle with off-road support is the Tacoma...and that is far behind Wrangler.
Two totally different vehicle with different priorities. No one would ever make claim that Wrangler can match the versatility, comfort, towing, and durability of the LC. And we should make the claim that LC is a mountain goat on par with Wrangler Rubicon over the toughest technical terrain.
That’s interesting data. Generally the 200 does close to or as good as keep by those metrics if I’m reading them right.
Would you say that makes a Jeep’s approach, departure, and narrowness its main advantages?
