wheeling a diesel

[harveya]

Only place I would prefer a Gas powered vehicle for off roading would be in San, lots of revs etc, everywhere else apart from descents Diesel is king. I also prefer automatics off road than manuals but that is a personal preference.

I also find for descents, locking the auto in low gear helps but there isn't any substite for good brakes.

Overall I don't think there is much difference really if we are talking diesel to large V8 with lots of torque - 350ci or bigger. However the fuel economy on road is a bitch compared to a diesel of comparable size so as a daily driver the diesel wins again.

I've had both for off road use - Petrol Cherokee and Discovery V8 plus Hilux Surf 2.4TD and now the Land Cruiser.

I love the LC best with the 1HD-T which to me is the ideal engine for both dialy driving and off road use.

 

[FL cruiser]

I prefer the V8....as long as it's a diesel

 

[wesintl]

Compression braking works on normally asperated diesels, not so good with turbo.

Mine sure doesn't seem to... any down hill the RPM climbs right up instantly. Maybe they have less but it's not compression braking of a gas engine. I *always* have to use the brake downhill.

 

[mjohn7]

I've been driving a diesel for the past ten years. Great fuel ecomony, less maintenance then a gasser,no problems wheeling. Only downside, the need to plug in at low temp.

1992 Dodge Cummings
1990 Delica 4x4 2.5 Diesel
1989 BJ74 13BT

 

[Tapage]

Only place I would prefer a Gas powered vehicle for off roading would be in San, lots of revs etc

We do mud here .. and trust me a big V8 with auto tranny make a big diference with huge boggers under it ..

And if I have long heavy swamp ahead in my dream world I can swith from my diesel to big V8 with 400 HP .. and 500 lb torq .. but in my real worl .. I put my chains gear in 3rd and smile .. !!!

I love the LC best with the 1HD-T which to me is the ideal engine for both dialy driving and off road use.

The 1HD-T engine is other history .. the kick that you recive over 2000 rpm make you smile ..

 

[Greg_B]

Mine sure doesn't seem to... any down hill the RPM climbs right up instantly. Maybe they have less but it's not compression braking of a gas engine. I *always* have to use the brake downhill.

I dunno...maybe it's my driving style, but I hardly use the brakes, prefering to use the gearbox and engine to slow me down. I've never found it to be a problem and usually in the mtns on the highway I find I have to keep my foot into the throttle a bit to maintain speed (likely the wind dynamics of a brick at work here).

On the 3B with the butterfly throttle, compression braking is even more pronounced. The times I needed to use brakes to go slower when off road and going downhill in 1st low were usually due to lack of gearing, and the brakes fighting the engines desire for revolution...

gb

 

[wesintl]

Overall it's not all that big a deal and I'm usually always in 4 lo rest stock with 4.11 diffs.

On a steep down hill like many on hells revenge or some other 10+ mile mountains the rpms just want to climb right past 3k with anything more than 6% or 7% grade.

I really doubt it's my driving style. In Moab I'd be glad to give any of you my vehicle and we can go do baby lions back in reverse and you'll see how fast those rpms climb in 1st low..

I guess I've been riding/wheeling in to many orion/dual case rigs. I want to go slower than 4low

 

[Greg_B]

Overall it's not all that big a deal and I'm usually always in 4 lo rest stock with 4.11 diffs.

On a steep down hill like many on hells revenge or some other 10+ mile mountains the rpms just want to climb right past 3k with anything more than 6% or 7% grade.

I really doubt it's my driving style. In Moab I'd be glad to give any of you my vehicle and we can go do baby lions back in reverse and you'll see how fast those rpms climb in 1st low..

I guess I've been riding/wheeling in to many orion/dual case rigs. I want to go slower than 4low

Ya...gearing gearing gearing...

Cheesman took a few of us on the 1st 1/2 of Hells Revenge late one day after a run. Going up some of those grades with 33" tires and an H42 with 4:11 was not a nice feeling. It did not feel like I had much response left at the throttle. Coming back down the same way I was on the brakes all the time as there was NO way I was letting the rpms get away, because I did not have the gearing...I hear ya!

I still remember the 1st time on slickrock and the amazment at what traction there was and what could be done. Pucker power!

Here's a pic coming down the entrance to Hells in my BJ42.

I'm thinking gearing would be even more of an issue with any other diesel, as the butterfly valve in the 3B will give you similar compression breaking as in a gasser...if I am recalling the basics right.

gb

EDIT..oh, and what we were doing was mild. Simply amazing to consider some of the places and runs there. If anyone reading this has never gone...put it on your list. The Cruiser Moab crew did a bang up job both times I was there, and the location is amazing.

 

[wesintl]

Here's a pic coming down the baby LB in my BJ42. Which way is reverse from that pic?

I'm thinking gearing would be even more of an issue with any other diesel, as the butterfly valve in the 3B will give you similar compression breaking as in a gasser...if I am recalling the basics right.

That's the real one.. you have to pay now to do it.

I'm thinking the butterfly valve on the 3b doesn't really close as well as a gasser does. It may provide some compression braking, but honestly IMHO I think it provides very little.

 

[Diescipel]

uh.. that's an issue for me wheeling Diesels don't have as good of compression braking due to a throttle plate. I have to ride the brake on some decents with mine or the rpms climb right up and I pick up speed in a hurry. It's really the only aspect I hate with the diesel. That's why rigs need a jake brake..

I mean, yah on the jake brake but what's this about the throttle plate? Okay, I see some info in the other posts--I'll follow up.

Not my experience, which admittedly is not too broad in regards to wheeling... Maybe I haven't had it on a steep enough hill All diesels I've driven (VW rabbit, Mercedes 240D, BJ42) have noticeably better compression braking than any gasser, including my old Porsche 944 with ~11:1.

Literally scared myself the other day when I downshifted 4th to 3rd and let the clutch out too fast/didn't rev match with the throttle. Almost gave myself whiplash.

B

 

[wesintl]

Since diesel is a compression ignition if you cut the fuel it no longer is producing power but it's still compressing air and the air is producing power by pushing the piston. Power is given to the crank on compression and thus the only fiction left is the moving parts of the engine and drivetrain. I guess you can argue that the butterfly limits some airflow but again I would say it's not enough to fully brake the engine in a naturally aspirated 3B.

Brenden, take the cruiser to the top of a steep hill. Put it in 1st and don't touch the gas(ok accelerator ) pedal and watch your cruiser continue to pick up momentum...

 

[Stone]

The 1HZ and the 3B have less smoke out the tailpipe because they are an indirect injected engine. The older direct injected engines like my 13B-T seem to smoke a little bit more and emit a distinctive aroma.

 

[Greg_B]

Not my experience, which admittedly is not too broad in regards to wheeling... Maybe I haven't had it on a steep enough hill All diesels I've driven (VW rabbit, Mercedes 240D, BJ42) have noticeably better compression braking than any gasser, including my old Porsche 944 with ~11:1B

For a good read on pumping losses, air throttled and fuel throttled engines read this: http://www.bankspower.com/Tech_todaysdiesel.cfm

Consider, and keep in mind the 3B governs it's fuel by pressure differential, by placing a butterfly valve in the intake neck of the intake manifold; An anomaly in diesel engines.

gb

 

[wesintl]

wesintl...really, that is the baby lionback. We came up the one end and down the end you can see in the picture.

Oh.. I know what your talking about now.. it's at the enterence to hells if you make a right.. You go up and then down, around the blm shack.

I dunno what that is called mini lions back. The real baby lions back is around that corner. You go up the rock bend to the left and down and drive to the right back around the rock. I dunno maybe the names change and my memory tends to get bad at my relativly young age

 

[Tapage]

including my old Porsche 944 with ~11:1.

oooooo good to know other Porsche maniac near here .. good feelings in my 951 86 ..

 

[Greg_B]

Oh.. I know what your talking about now.. it's at the enterence to hells if you make a right.. You go up and then down, around the blm shack.

I dunno what that is called mini lions back. The real baby lions back is around that corner. You go up the rock bend to the left and down and drive to the right back around the rock. I dunno maybe the names change and my memory tends to get bad at my relativly young age

It's been a number of years since I was there, so lets call it my RF addled memory that is incorrect. I'll edit the other posts for posterity...


gb

 

[tlcruiserman]

Any 1 here rolling a diesel in there cruiser how do you like it overall for wheeling , daily driver, etc? Would you prefer a v8 to wheel with? I am considering one in a fj40 rockcrawler

I will also say that a stock Toyota 6 gasser does very well off-roading, and I think the Toyota diesels are very close to the gas 6's for offroading, that being said I will take the diesel over the gasser and here are the things that I noticed and like about the diesel once I started running them.

The Diesel has no electrical ignition, so if it gets wet (perhaps you wheel in a lot of water) the diesel is for the most part unaffected by water. The diesel will idle down very low and not stall, this is a trait of stock Toyota 6 gasser as well but I can tell you that it is very nice on the diesel. I find that I can keep my foot out of the throttle and let the diesel with its low end torque do its thing and it climbs over stuff great. I personally have found that the diesels that I have run (mostly 3B 40 and 7x series) seem to like the higher gears over the gas 40's, I run no higher than 4.11's with 35" tires and my diesel's love it. I even have one of my 70 series still running 3.70 gears and has 35" tires (and no turbo) and it does amazingly well off-road, every time I take it out whomever is with me, always asks, what gears to you have in it, does it have mods to the engine, and my reply is - it is as stock as you can get, with the exception of the suspension and oversize tires.

One other great thing about the diesel is I am always getting great mileage compared to my 40 series friends. Now granted they usually have older models with the smaller tank and my 40 and 70 series all have 21 (or greater) sized tank but even at that I still find I need to fill up far less than they do.

Michael

 

[tlcruiserman]

uh.. that's an issue for me wheeling Diesels don't have as good of compression braking due to a throttle plate. I have to ride the brake on some decents with mine or the rpms climb right up and I pick up speed in a hurry. It's really the only aspect I hate with the diesel. That's why rigs need a jake brake..

I find the same issue with my diesel's that have 3.70 gears but not with my ones that have 4.11's

Michael

 

[Diescipel]

oooooo good to know other Porsche maniac near here .. good feelings in my 951 86 ..

Ay cabron... I have to pay off the BJ before I can look at another P-car. I'll be looking at 87+ 951s and 968s (which all got airbags and anti-lock breaks in the U.S.A....). Such a fabolous handling line of vehicles...


Thanks for the read Greg, now 1) I see I've been duped by the term "compression braking" all my life, and 2) I kinda want a common rail engine in the BJ42 . Very good info there and I see better how different diesels are from gassers (where most of my previous mech experience comes from).



B

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Vancouver to Black Hills ralley then back to Texas, now thats an iron butt.

Seen pics of your rig Nick and looks better than when you purchased it..

I understand the give and take, the tubed LT1 buggies are trailor babbies that are good for one thing.


I think head to head a stock FJ40 and BJ42, the BJ42 would be easier to learn with the amount of torque that little engine builds.

IMO......

There's more smoke from my pipe tobacco than my 3B...

Most of the hard core wheelers in my club look like funny cars. My BJ42 can't compete with 'em. However, among the stock rigs, my truck will outperform anybody. And since I drive it to and from the event, I don't have to mess with trailers and tow rigs.

Happy Trails! N

P.S. I'm another satisfied owner because of Radd Cruisers. I drove my rig about 3,000 miles home after importing it through Bellingham.
Fun time.