Wheel height in regards to aired down performance

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Been oogling the Secondair internal beadlocks and they look pretty good. One question in regards to beadlocks in general though .. how will wheel height manifest itself in aired down performance on the trail?

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The IROK radials I am looking at come in 16, 17, and 20" sizes. The 20, for instance, would be losing a lot of valuable sidewall when aired down, no? Am I looking at this correctly?



TY
 
man you will have to air down alot to get over the speed bumps at the mall man. Yea you loose some height, but it depends on how much air you let loose. Most stuff at Moab you do not have to loose that much air, not engouh that I have needed bead locks. 15 psi is usually enough to get most of the stuff you may consider, unless you are planning to take some body damage on your truck. Tyler jsut go for the 20's and do not worry about anything, rim or side wall, just be sure the rims are alcoa bad ass rims. later robbie
 
Here’s my view T (so yeah, some will disagree because I don’t use a fish scale when I put the cap on the valve stem :flipoff2: )……

Forget about tire height for a moment. Now, while I have never owned Secondairs, I have wheeled with Tirelocs for about 4 seasons. The Tirelocs run a second valve for the bladder (most know this already) and they get aired up first to a higher psi than the tire. The tire then gets aired up. While you may airdown to 9-12 psi, the internal bladder, at least with the Tirelocs, does not get aired down less than 28 psi. This is what helps lock the bead. I have aired down to 3 psi just to see what would happen, but a heavy truck like the 80 simply rests on the rim and you’d damage the rim by trying to wheel that way (yeah, pretty common sense, but just fyi). To me the main benefit of running the beadlock comes when you’re sitting there offcamber, with possibly all the weight of the truck being held by one bead…. Should that bead let go, well, you may be going over (remember that pic of my 80 with 3 winch lines attached to it – the only reason the truck didn’t go, before the cables were on it was because I had the beadlocks).

How much height would you lose? Tough call and depends on the tire etc. Think of it this way though, if you would normally airdown to 15 psi, but now go to 9 psi (giving you better pull over the obstacle), then the only difference in height would be the amount between 9 psi compared to 15 psi – pretty minimal height, and in my view substantially increases the traction you can get (yes, have gotten over obstacles at 9 psi that I could not do at 15 psi).

All of the above is based on experience with running these combined with bias ply tires. If you are now adding the radial variable into the mix then I’d have to question the combination of beadlocks with a radial tire. A radial will not have the sidewall strength that a bias tire has. So to me, I would rather have a set of street radials and a set of bias ply trail tires even if this meant there was no cash left for the beadlocks. I do not think that radials and beadlocks combined, so that you could run one set all the time, really makes sense – but again, just my view. I know you have reasons to consider this, but I just don’t think I’d go that route.

Now when you get into rim size you have opened a whole ‘nutha load of variables about the sidewall and sidewall roll/fold etc. I’m tired of typing :flipoff2: :D
 
what IROK height are you looking at?

IMO, the length of the tread is much more important than the side wall bulge....that bulge is actually a disadvantage when it comes to sidewall shift and low pressure....turning becomes a chore since the front end wants to push.

I notice significantly improved steering when I switched from 38.5 SX's on 15" rims to 39.5 IROK's on 17" rims, and even more improvement with the 37" PitBull Rockers on a 17" rim. (all run at 5psi)

Junk makes a good point on radials too....running 37" tires on a 20" rim give you minimal bulge and minimal sidewall...much less area to damage on the weaker radial tire....37 less 20 divide by 2 still equals 8.5" of sidewall, probably 7 or so when aired down.
 

Looking at going with 36'' IROK radials for next few years until I am debt free. So perhaps 20x9 wheels would be my best bet. I need to retain my primary streetability, while also creating a setup that can be aired down and trailed safely.

I appreciate that some crifices will have to be made, but they will certainly be made on the side street performance for the time being, until I can go hog wild and build it right .


TY
 
If it were my rig, I'd get a set of trail 16" rims and a set of bias ply swampers for the trail for less than you'll spend on the IROK tires alone. Then I'd buy a $100 stinger platform (add $70 if you don't have a class III hitch) and carry these to the trail on the platform, then switch at the trail for distant runs like Moab. I have a platform and brought some tires home from Michigan a few summers ago and was pleased at how they were out of the way back there (upper hatch opens, cargo area available, roof available, etc).

16" rims are cheap, 16" tires are cheap, and both are easily replaced almost anywhere - again cheaply. And you've got nice and safe road tires for the DD grind. Send me the money I just saved you.....US $ of course. No, wait - buy yourself a road bike with it for cryin' out loud.

DougM
 
Junk said:
So to me, I would rather have a set of street radials and a set of bias ply trail tires even if this meant there was no cash left for the beadlocks. I do not think that radials and beadlocks combined, so that you could run one set all the time, really makes sense – but again, just my view. I know you have reasons to consider this, but I just don’t think I’d go that route.


Hate to say it TY but I agree wholeheartedly with this :ban:.

This and also what Doug mentions above are what I am considering for my rig. I believe it to supply the best of both worlds without loosing to much functionality in either one.
 
reffug said:
Hate to say it TY but I agree wholeheartedly with this :ban:.

This and also what Doug mentions above are what I am considering for my rig. I believe it to supply the best of both worlds without loosing to much functionality in either one.
Yup, then snag some bonus money or something along the way and add Secondairs when you can.
 
Does anyone have pics of the Stinger platform on a cruiser, or anything for that matter? So you'd really haul around 4 x 36" IROKS with one off those things? Having a hard time picturing it ..


I guess I'm feeling strongly that our goals might not be the same. I am many many miles from most events, so the frequency of my offroading is diminished. Therefore the radials sound like the ticket. For me to invest in a whole other set of tires just for a yearly event or two seems way off. Don't most guys do just fine on 95% of the trails at Moab anyway with radials, and 2.5" lift?


I honestly think that until I move to Cali, the 20x10 + radial IROKS are my best bet .. and internals the gravy.


When this training is done, and I am debt free in a few years, I can again assess this sickness ;p and go biggggg. I'm having to be all grownup now and buckle down and make decisions that seem right in terms of practicality and cashflow.


'Sides if I wanna go hog wide next year at Moab I'll hook up with some of the guys running bad ass rigs, and get a taste of whats to come ..



Peace,



TY
 
The way I read that T Y.......your going overboard on the wrong side. Your buying an aggressive offroad setup for your 1-2 trip a year schedule. When your truck is on pavement 95% of the time, why be so overkill on the small side?

Granted, I DD my 80 and the day I got it the swampers were off the 40 and on it, but I wheel daily. Pud trails, but still. If I had to drive to any sort of event, Im not ruining a good set of offroads to get there. Ill buy a cheapo set of roads and swap em at the trailhead.
 
It won't always be this way, but for now I'll have a great setup for taking off some sweet jumps .. catch at least 3' of air :D



TY
 
For catching 3 feet of air, you'd be best served with a vehicle transplant to a dune buggy or sand rail. Also, a controlling interest in a frame and alignment shop would be good. Dropping off a 3 foot lip in a controlled slow fashion is one thing, but letting Mr. Gravity accelerate you for 36 inches is gonna break stuff in short order.

I don't have any platform shots, but they're basically a 3feet by 5feet expanded steel mesh floor bolted to asquare tube stinger. Ya flop one stack of two tires at one end, the other two at the other end. Take a motorcycle ratchet strap over each of them and tightlly ratchet them down to the metal mesh. Do this while it's on your 80 and it's a piece o' cake since you can get to the bottom of the steel floor for securing hooks, etc AND you don't have to lift the whole shebang up to mount it afterwards. I used a couple cable locks to outwit the casual theif so I could eat lunch in peace. Stood on them several times on the trip to mess with roof loads, etc. Worked well and I wouldn't carry a set of 4 tires any other way (well, except bolted to the hubs, of course).

DougM
 
You gotta know I was kidding about the Napolean jumps, right? ;)


I'll go price separate wheels/tire sets out, and compare ... and look for pics of this expanding platform.


I wonder if there is room behind the rear seats to fit 4x 36x13.5 tires?? That would be really nice .. and still have the rear seating for stashing gear. And nothing hanging off the rear hitch.



TY
 
T Y L E R said:
Don't most guys do just fine on 95% of the trails at Moab anyway with radials, and 2.5" lift?


'Sides if I wanna go hog wide next year at Moab I'll hook up with some of the guys running bad ass rigs, and get a taste of whats to come ..

interestingly, IMO, MOAB trails that are 80-able are 95% doable with 33's....lots of guys have proven it....

those other 5% trails are body-damage, and frankly no place for a wagon with glass installed....there ARE exceptions, but the willingness to use the WHOLE truck for wheeling (like Christo) is pretty rare....

IMO, go to Moab, wheel Moab, and realize what you can do with the rig you have....I wheeled for 8 years on 31 or 33" tires, open diffs, and a stock suspension with my FJ40.....you haven't even owned yer truck that long :D As noted above, driver skill is much more appreciated with 33's....toss on 36's and people will assume you don't know how to drive and bought tires to compensate ;)
 
woody said:
interestingly, IMO, MOAB trails that are 80-able are 95% doable with 33's....lots of guys have proven it....

I agree, I've done Moab couple of times with the "other" vehicle on 245 75 16s (29-30" tires).


T Y,

somewhere in there, you'll be spending some big dollars on regearing! You sure you wanna drive around a massively tired 80 at $3.50/gallon for gas in Calli? :D I'm in Toronto this week and noticed that gas is $1.11/litre :eek:


Ali
 
For several years, I was paid to drive stock Isuzu Amigos through a wide variety of difficult Moab trails with stock 29" tires and dismal underbody ground clearance. No problem, no damage. The traction levels are amazing so obstacles can be done with control vs bashing. If Moab is the goal, as mentioned a stock 80 can easily handle 4+ Moab trails with no damage.

DougM
 
Now, why can't I get a job like that? :D
 
Alia,

Wasn't a full time job - represented them every year at a large Isuzu Moab event every year for a week. Great fun as you'd expect.

DougM
 
I've done several Moab trails with my 80. OME heavies (non-J) with 33s. No problem at all. Did it last year with the same set up except for having 35s. Still no issue.
Lockers will help you cheat over some of the stuff, but IMO, as already stated, driver experience helps a lot more.

Unless you're going for poser shots (with anything larger than 35s), what you have now is more than enough for the trails you're likely willing to take your rig on.

They only thing you might want to do is regear if you're still at the stock 4.10.
 

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