What is your experience with Cat, J.D and or Case backhoes

[Gus]

I've got a backyard full of projects, site clearing, drainage, building boulder/retaining walls, driveway construction and a shop to eventually build, thus I'm looking to pick up a backhoe between now and spring. I'm a total newbie with the backhoe, though I grew up on(and still put in some time here and there) a farm with skid loaders, tractors and an old International dozer, I've also run a few Cat and Bobcat excavators enough to have a rudimentary understanding of them, so I'm pretty comfortable with equipment in general.
It seems that the mid to late 80s 4x4 Cat 416s, John Deere 310, 410 & 510s and Case 580s fit my budget(Under $20k), although I'd entertain other name brands if the right machine came along. Most of the machines I've found have around 4-5k hours and are second owner machines. I've searched here and found some helpful info, especially on the Case 580s and all the extras. I have not found as much info on the JD 310, 410 and 510 or the Cats; for example, there's a mid 80's Cat 416 and a mid 80's JD 410 for sale close by. So, what are peoples experiences with these or similar machines, things to look out for as far as issues, notorious week spots, etc. I'm somewhat familiar with all the cool extras, Extend-a-hoe, twist wrist, 4 in 1 bucket, hydraulic or manual thumb, etc; I'd like to get a machine with all that stuff but I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen. Thanks in advance

 

[D'Animal]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/workshop-home-improvement/278339-buying-backhoe.html

 

[Gus]

D'animal, thanks for the link, I read that thread, tons of good info, especially for the Case 580s. I was wondering if anyone had experience with specifically the Cat 416 and JD 310, 410 or 510 as these are the machines I haven't learned as much about.

 

[KliersLC]

I grew up running my Dad's 310A. He still uses it today. It is pretty basic, no bells and whistles but very reliable.

 

[Joe_E]

All three of the machines you mentioned are all good choices. They all have good and bads but they are the best out there in my opinion. Going with a JD, i would look for a 410.

I would say the biggest tip would be to get any of the three with 4WD! Alot of maneuverability is lost without it.

 

[Gus]

KliersLC, Joe_E, thanks for the tips. 4x4 is a necessity around here with the snow and mud, the area I'll be doing a lot of work in is pretty wet in places(I plan on changing that).

 

[nspctr1]

I am partial to the case 580 just because the controls are easier to learn and operate than a JD wobble stick, imho. Plus, you can probably pick up the extend-a-hoe pretty reasonable... Between the 2 on the jobsite the JD seemed a little less stable but that could be just me....

 

[Weedhopper]

I don't run any of this stuff myself, but I have subs that do. By far the most valuable option I have seen is the Extend A Hoe. It saves moving the machine when you want to get at just ... two more feet.

 

[Gus]

Nspctr1, Weedhopper, I appreciate the info. There are enough 4x4 Case 580s around New England I can be somewhat selective, at least half of them have extend-a-hoe, which would be nice when working near all the wet spots or in the tight spots. I plan on building a lot of stone retaining walls I could see the extend-a-hoe working well there(in addition to a thumb and 4in1 bucket). As I said in an earlier post, just about all of these machines have 5000-6000 hours, anything to watch out for particularly with twenty year old machine with these kind of hours; how long, roughly, will a well cared for engine, transmission, hydraulic system, go before needing a rebuild? Thanks again for the info on this.

 

[inthewall]

Ask if you can get oil samples( hydraulic and engine) before you buy. Have the samples tested, the test will show you what is going on with the internals. As above, all three are good machines. You might ask around, about how the dealerships are in your area. I would go with the dealer with the best support.

 

[Gus]

Inthewall, I've heard of sending out oil samples to some place like Blackstone laboritories, but never done it myself; sounds like a good idea. I have yet to deal with any of the local dealerships(none of them have any machinery in stock in my price range) but checking them out for service is a good call, Thanks.

 

[inthewall]

Service and parts. You can get filters for these machines at most auto parts stores, but there are a lot of parts that have to come from the dealer. Ask a few contractors, which one is the best at taking care of them.

 

[craptabulous]

as a heavy duty mechanic , if i was to go out and buy a backhoe i would get a case or a cat .

joy stick controls are a must .
4x4 is a must
extendaboom is a must
a clam bucket is a plus
diff lock is a plus
hyd thumb is very usefull


a cat will cost more to buy and will cost more to have it fixed . there is a lot of specialized tools you need to own to work on a cat , a manual is about 1500$ etc .

finning charges 180$/hr up here . parker pacific is only about 130-140$/hr . generally any one will work on a case not everyone knows how to work on a cat .

personally i like cat better . something like a 16b would be nice .

i don't care for anything john deere makes , excluding there excavators . which are made by hitachi , there bunchers and skidders are also not half bad but thats due to the fact that they bought timberjack however many years ago . there skid steers are absolute junk .

 

[CruisenSurfin]

I worked in the rental industry for 8 years and can give you my opinion.
Personally I love Cats, but I would never own one myself due to the extremely high cost of maintenance.

So that leaves us with Case and John Deere.
The Case is a machine that you cannot kill (like a FJ-40) and has an awesome engine(Cummins 4bt) but at the end of the day it feels like you have been in a boxing match. Also I personally hate the three stick control system, although the machine is faster than the JD the 3 stick controls will slow you down(I know some people love them and will argue the opposite). It seems like the older guys that used to rent from us loved the case controls, but the younger guys love the wobble stick design(JD, Cat, etc)

The JD is more like a (FJ-60) way more comfortable and the wobble sticks are far more efficient(faster) than the Case design.

In our rental fleet we ran both the Case and JD. Both machines lasted just as long as the others, it always came down what you were used to using.

Other than that the things you should look out for are:
- Get the fluids checked(this is a must of older machines)
- Check out how badly the bushings are worn in the bucket and any other joint. You must really check
because people will allow the joints to wear past the actual bushing and into the metal, and it cost a
lot of money to get this fixed correctly.
- Finally with a machine with 3000 hours the hydraulic cylinders will need to be repacked. This can get
costly very fast. Look at the rod(the shiny part that sticks out of the cylinder) for any signs that they have been scratched, if they are you are looking at replacing the rod$$$ The outriggers are the first to go because people pile dirt on them when they are excavating.

Finally if you get one remember that grease is the most important part of maintenance. You will go though 1 tube of grease every 20 hours, if you don't then you will be replacing bushings often.

Jesse

 

[Gus]

Inthewall, Craptabulous, Cruisensurfin, Thanks, very helpful info there. I plan on doing all the minor work on this machine, with normal tools, as much as possible. I prefer Joy stick/wobble stick controls but really don't care enough to worry about it.

 

[KliersLC]

I forgot to mention the 310A is 2wd. My brother runs a Case 580? I don't remember the number. I talked to him about it last night and he is having some problems. Lots of small stuff, but his front bucket raises when working the Hoe, and sometimes working with the front bucket will move the Hoe. Just make sure it is well maintained--My brother's isn't.

 

[Gus]

KliersLC, thanks. I've got a couple buddys that have and/or still do run construction equipment that will help inspect any of the machines I'm looking at. My old bulldozer was a prime example of a machine that had not been properly maintained when I got a hold of it, nothing but a headache, I'm done with neglected equipment.

 

[nspctr1]

X 2 on the Cat maintenance but I would throw JD in that pile also. In my experience, Case equipment will take baldwin filters that you can pick up just about anywhere. I've worked these hoe's to death and have not had one problem with them with the proper maintenance. An experienced operator should be able to tell you if there is an issue with a piece of machinery by doing the pre trip inspection and operating it, (cylinders and bearings etc). In my experience the larger the contractor the better the maintenance will be on them but then again, not always.

Good Luck

 

[mminter1973]

I own a case 580 and am extremely happy with it. It is a no frills machine except it has 4wd. I would love to have all the extras but my one priority before i bought one was that it had 4wd. I have done pretty much everything i have needed to with it 4wd is a must!!! if the ground is even a little wet you cant do squat without locking it in. BTW i leave mine locked in all the time, except on pavement.

 

[Gus]

Nspctr1, Mminter1973; thanks for recommendations, I'm hearing tons of positive stuff about the 580's. I'm only looking at 4x4s, my property is very muddy in a few spots where I'll be doing a lot of work; we started running 4x4 tractors exclusively on the family farm back in the 80s and have never thought twice about it. My biggest priority is finding a tight, clean machine with as low hours as I can find; I'd rather buy a low hour clean machine without the extras than a loaded beat up machine. A good friend who's run/owned a bunch of Case(and Cat) equipment including two 580s is going to be checking out a few machines out for me.