Warping rotors theory

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I always use the parking brake and always have on all vehicles and do have salt and have never had issues. Hummmmm ponderous.
 
landtank said:
Every Toyota truck that I've owned for any length of time has seized the bellcranks.
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Don't know tank, this is my 3rd cruiser and on at least my 6th honda and never had an issue. Just had to do proper maintenance and replace parts when necessary but hever had a bellcrank sieze. (reffug going outside to knock on wood)
 
elmariachi said:
FWIW, let me tell you how this happened to me twice on two of my 6 FJ-80s. The first time was in the winter of 1995 in my 1991 FJ-80 and I was en route to Virginia for Christmas. We were on the interstate in 45 degree weather and I had been running for about 2 hours at road speed, no stops whatsoever. I came sailing off the highway onto the exit ramp and slammed on my brakes. I literally felt the rotors go from smooth to warped in a matter of three seconds. They were previously fine and not one issue and instantly they got so bad that it dramatically changed the way we drove throughout the balance of the trip. I replaced them within a week of arriving home.

Next instance was back here in Texas in my 1996 FJ-80, coming down the interstate again after a couple hours of solid running in 65 degree weather. I leaned hard on my brakes at road speed to get stopped to pick up something lying in the road. In the process of braking, I again felt the rotors go from A-OK to totally warped. It was so bad I replaced the rotors and pads the next weekend.
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a couple of thoughts

remember that from 74 to 95 we had a nationwide 55 mph speed limit

seems like Toyota's brakes might just be asked to do too much of a job slowing that beast down from 75-80 mph

the oversized tires, welded steel bumpers front and rear and sliders in the middle, two spare tires, and extra fuel tank just make things worse

and all that is before you load up all your crap in the back


brake cooling anyone?
 
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_brake_cooling/mult_brake_cooling.htm

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=AIRHOSE

using water misting

http://www.opentracking.com/<a sty...'; return true;">water_cooling</a>_brakes.htm

from the open track site

Background:
The idea behind brake spraying is rooted firmly in thermodynamics. As water changes phases from liquid to gas an enormous amount of heat energy is absorbed. We want to use the heat absorbing properties of the water to gas phase transformation to cool our brakes.

The idea is to get a fine mist of water into the cooling vanes inside our rotors. The fine mist will evaporate and cool the rotors as it travels through the vanes. We want to avoid a constant stream of water that may come in contact with our rotors and cause warpage. By spraying a fine mist we will ensure that we expose the maximum surface area of the water sprayed at the brakes giving us the best possible distribution and evaporation of the water. For this reason, nozzle choice and pump pressure are very important.....better atomization of the water will make the entire braking system work better.

Application:
Brake spraying can improve the cooling of ANY brake system that uses a vented rotor. Many of you probably saw the Tran-Am race this past weekend won by Bobby Archer. Those big heavy cars all use brake sprayers to assist cooling.

I would NOT suggest using this for any solid rotor. Spraying water on one side of a rotor can cause uneven pad wear, rotor warpage and other problems.

I have a 94 AWD Talon which is under braked from the factory. In the past I would have to have my rotors skimmed after every event due to warpage. Since installing brake sprayers, I have not had to skim the rotors one single time after four events (8 track days) despite using them much harder than I have in the past (because my brakes work better). I am buying an upgraded brake kit for my car in the near future (about two hours:-)) and I will continue to use the sprayers.
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Im thinking a small fan with some ducting to blow air over the front rotors all the time, and a small water injection system to mist water into the duct when the brake light is on
 
Last edited:
Gumby, don't know how you are missing the obvious.

They obviously use that special brake fluid additive that assures you get 50% more life out of the rotors. How did you not know that. :confused: :doh: :flipoff2:

I'm just assuming that you ride the brake harder - ie. they drive more highway for extended periods - possibly during less crowded times - they don't have as much weight on their brakes (arb bars, sliders etc)
 
I went through this with a customers truck, turned down the cheapo aftermarket rotors and they continued to pulsate.


Firstly I would use nothing but OEM rotors, everthing else less expensive is junk. You would not believe the pocket from casting in the rotor, it was almost the size of a roll of electrical tap and very deep.

Also the problem with turning your brake rotors down that much you greatly loose brake performance for a varitety of reasons.


For my customers I do also bed the brakes.

The same 80 series which was 1994 with high milage also showed the calipers to not be retracting very well, so I replaced them.


Only complaint after this brake job was getting use to the new brakes, he claimed the braking power was extremely better.


Rob
 
Junk said:
Gumby, don't know how you are missing the obvious.

They obviously use that special brake fluid additive that assures you get 50% more life out of the rotors. How did you not know that. :confused: :doh: :flipoff2:

I'm just assuming that you ride the brake harder - ie. they drive more highway for extended periods - possibly during less crowded times - they don't have as much weight on their brakes (arb bars, sliders etc)
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Other way 'round. I have 133K on my rotors. They are going through rear rotors.

maybe they have the super secret brake fluid? :eek:
 
italian tune-up

Hi Gumby,

Another vote for the brake-deposits-on-rotor theory. I buy cheapie pads, occasionally a cheapie rotor pair, when I do brake jobs (because its usually on a Sunday afternoon, only Autozone/Kragen is open, and I'm too dumb to think ahead). Often, I've experienced pulsing brakes awhile after a new brake job. Or, I'll feel pulsing brakes when riding with friends and relatives cars after THEY got a brake job.

In those situations, I recall my father's method of fixing auto problems-- he called it an "italian tune-up". For brakes, you find some back roads and speed up/brake hard until they fade and you smell brakes (usually only 3 or 4 times on most vehicles). If it was running rough, he'd scrape off the distributor/rotor tips with his jack-knife, pour water in the carb and let the smoke roll out, then drive it at high rpm on those same local back-roads. 90% of the time it ran fine. Then, the other 10%, the poor car would s*** the bed completely and he'd have to face an unhappy friend! :)

Anyway, I wouldn't turn Toyota rotors until trying the hot-brakes/bedding-in method first-- its at least more fun! Only those newer, thin (disposable) composite rotors on econo-boxes are candidates for warpage, IMNSHO.

My braking technique in the past few years is to try to stop 10 feet before the 'line', and then slowly creep up to the line. My theory is it allows the hot brakes to spread the heat around the rotor for another 10 seconds. Don't know if it works, but it keeps me entertained, and sure alarms people (and motorcyclists!) crossing an intersection in front of me. Especially when my tranny clunk gives a small surge forward. "Is he gonna stop or not?"

Kenton

Gumby said:
I have two customers with pulsating brakes issues. Both have been to others before me and both have had me install new fronts and turn the rears. In both cases the pulsating returned after a few months. In the one case I just repaired the rears were warped and non turnable. Replacing the rears solved the problem again.

I tried to figure out why I have 133K on my rotors and they are having problems after a few months. the calipers are releasing just fine. they are getting better life from their pads than I am, because I drive a lot of city miles with over size tires and heavy extra goodies, ( and a fat ass driver) . They are generally a LOT easier on their 80s than I am.

What do they do differently than I do? I noticed when I picked up her truck today.

i beleive the issue is caused by Chicago area weather and Toyota weird engineering.

Anybody got a guess? :)
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Well I think most of you use your brakes way too much. I have never had a warped rotor, but I down shift the tranny. But then we open the can of worms of if the newer 343 tranny will hold up to being used as a tranny should. I do know the 442 will hold up. Any how, I currently run the club spec DBA with 100 series pads in the front and in the rear the stock brake pads and DBA gold (cros and sloted). The truck (which weighs well over 6klbs) stops great. Calipers are rebuilt (front and rear). This could be a major problem for most of you. If the pistons are not retracting properly then heat build up in the rotor from the pad not retracting well.
Good luck later powderpig
 
Thanks for the opinion, but I have never had a brake job cost as much as a tranny rebuild. No downshifting an auto for me. Brake pads are far cheaper to replace than auto tranny clutches and bands, no matter what trans you have.

Still, if it works for you, great.
 
The whole deposit thing for me is utter Bull****!! Yes I spelled it out! Anyone who has done brake jobs and actually has turned drums and rotors will tell you that they can warp.

Some a****** starts a web site that states that all pulsing problems are deposits on the rotors and a bunch of lemmings start jumping on the band wagon.

I have personally seen warped rotors! Now someone who has done 100 or so brake jobs and fixed pulsing problems without ever turning the drums or rotors please reply.
 
While brake pads are cheaper than a rebuild auto. toyotas autos are strong and are designed to be down shifted. In a past thread even rodney spoke up to that effect that down shifting is not going to hurt the auto. By down shifting you have more control over the drive train and the engine, thus the vechicle. It almost like having a stick shift. I do believe a domestic auto has left you high and dry at one point and you can not get past this. later powderpig
 
I always downshift as necessary to prevent overheating brakes on steep downgrades. I never downshift for engine braking otherwise.

I've got 30K on a set of stock pads. At last measurment they are 66% worn to the replace limit.
 
I don't know that it would hurt a LC auto, but I have to think it would wear on the soft parts. Lots of people downshift manuals as well. No harm to the manual, but a slight increase in clutch wear.

it's just my opinion that brakes are easier to replace than clutches, whether in a manual or an auto.

JMHO. To be honest, between you and Rodney, ya'll are probably far more right than me. :)

I also live in the flatlands. We don't have much in the way of hills around here.
 
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