*** WARNING *** Man-A-Fre panhard drop bracket issue

[landtank]

I've had my Man-A-Fre rear panhard drop bracket on for some time. I started noticing some clunk and sway coming from the rear and today I had some time to investigate.

Well, the 4PLUS team decided that a Class 8.8 bolt was good enough where Toyota specs out a Class 10.9. Add to that the fact that they supply a course threaded bolt to boot.

For those who might not know a Class 10.9 is equivalent to a grade 8 and class 8.8 is the same as any run of the mill bolt.

Luckily I've been cleaning out my garage and stumbled on a box of bolts from about 6 years ago and they had a set for the rear mount for our front control arms. Right size, class and thread pitch for this repair.

Toyota part numbers are:

bolt = 90105-18006
nut = 90170-18007
washer = 90201-19011

I realize that a M18 is an automotive size bolt and extremely hard to source but this really isn't the place to skimp out.

 

[Ebag333]

So what exactly was causing the clunking/swaying?

 

[landtank]

if you look at the bolt the shaft has worn away and it was sloppy in the bushing's hole. The bolt also had loosened some. Right now I'm in the middle of making a raised bracket for the axle and eliminating the drop bracket completely.

 

[Nay]

A grade 8 fine thread bolt with lock nut should be plenty sufficient for this application, but this is a good catch and people with the drop bracket should make the change either to the actual Toyota bolt or at least to a grade 8 setup.

Or just ditch that thing

Edit: you are ditching that thing

 

[landtank]

A grade 8 fine thread bolt with lock nut should be plenty sufficient for this application, but this is a good catch and people with the drop bracket should make the change either to the actual Toyota bolt or at least to a grade 8 setup.

Or just ditch that thing

Edit: you are ditching that thing

the problem is that it's an M18 which is automotive and the equivalent sae is 11/16 which is also automotive.

FWIW I've never had an issue with this bracket at all before this bolt thing. If you stuf that side of the axle it sits right behind the bracket for the lower leading arm and never got caught on anything.

I'm looking into a riser to raise my axle's rolling center and maybe get rid of the slight tire rub on the frame.

 

[FJBen]

Nothing to comment on the product rather than the rust! But I guess thats what you get back east. How long has that been on?

 

[landtank]

Nothing to comment on the product rather than the rust! But I guess thats what you get back east. How long has that been on?

3 or 4 years now. Crap hardware rusts like no tomorrow around here. Some of the original Toyota stuff looks a hell of a lot better and it's original.

And the riser is a dead project. To build it correctly with a 4" rise it will hit the cross member above it. So I buttoned up the panhard with the new hardware and am calling it done.

 

[sleeoffroad]

It is not the bolt to sleave interface that needs to be tight to prevent clunking. The bushings are held in place by clamping the sleeve. If the bolt loosens up then you will get clunking.

 

[landtank]

It is not the bolt to sleave interface that needs to be tight to prevent clunking. The bushings are held in place by clamping the sleeve. If the bolt loosens up then you will get clunking.

yes and that is one reason Toyota uses all fine thread bolts. The one supplied was a very course thread.

 

[FJBen]

3 or 4 years now. Crap hardware rusts like no tomorrow around here. Some of the original Toyota stuff looks a hell of a lot better and it's original.

And the riser is a dead project. To build it correctly with a 4" rise it will hit the cross member above it. So I buttoned up the panhard with the new hardware and am calling it done.

So no way to move the axle mount up without body/frame interference? It looks close, but I imagine you definitely want to error on the safe side here.

 

[Nay]

And the riser is a dead project. To build it correctly with a 4" rise it will hit the cross member above it. So I buttoned up the panhard with the new hardware and am calling it done.

Yup - you can't go to a fully horizontal panhard raising the axle end without somewhat restricting up travel. Probably a 6" lift with ~38" tires before it works fully.

Still not sure why you can't just buy a metric grade 8 18mm bolt in fine thread with washer and lock nut vs. spending a mint at your friendly dealer for a factory bolt? Not a big deal of course.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Still not sure why you can't just buy a metric grade 8 18mm bolt in fine thread with washer and lock nut vs. spending a mint at your friendly dealer for a factory bolt? Not a big deal of course.

Sourcing the correct bolts for these applications is not always easy and cost money. Sometimes you just have to buy the Toyota bolts. Like we do with our 100 series rear bumpers. Since you can not get the 14mm rear bolt in a flange bolt and we need that

For example, I doubt you could get a 10.9 fine thread 18mm bolt that is zinc coated. You probably get them black oxide. Then they will rust more. The 18mm and 16mm bolts that we use on our caster kits (10.9) we have specially coated after we buy them.

 

[Nay]

So no way to move the axle mount up without body/frame interference? It looks close, but I imagine you definitely want to error on the safe side here.

You can do it, just not to fully horizontal. The more lift/bigger tires, i.e. less up travel towards the crossmember over a greater distance, the better.

I'd still do it to get a 2" raise and leave the other 2" to a bit of angle over a drop bracket. You'll still improve roll axis rather than decreasing it with the drop and you'll never feel that remaining bit of angle.

Of course, that link is pretty long at ~41", and it handles a 4" lift fine (I have no frame rubbing), so I'm not sure how significant the problem is that is being solved on a lower lift. On a 6" lift I'd be raising the axle mount, but I'd probably also be raising some other mounts as well.

 

[Nay]

Sourcing the correct bolts for these applications is not always easy and cost money. Sometimes you just have to buy the Toyota bolts. Like we do with our 100 series rear bumpers. Since you can not get the 14mm rear bolt in a flange bolt and we need that

For example, I doubt you could get a 10.9 fine thread 18mm bolt that is zinc coated. You probably get them black oxide. Then they will rust more. The 18mm and 16mm bolts that we use on our caster kits (10.9) we have specially coated after we buy them.

Yea, maybe not in a fine thread. Of course, my days of sourcing all of this stuff at my local hardware store stopped when I sold my Heep , but those guys had the best collection of metric and SAE zinc coated grade 8(10.9) I've ever seen.

The best thing to do with a MAF drop bracket, in any case, is what I did with mine: Sell it on MUD for 75% of what you paid for it and move on

 

[landtank]

the only way to get the riser to work is to have it not be vertical. If it were to rise at an angle toward the frame bracket so that it wasn't as tall but still centered the axle with the stock panhard you could get a little gain. But that would take some AutoCad work.

For now the drop bracket stays and will continue to perform perfectly I'm sure.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

18mm fine thread we have to order here, and as Christo said, get them plated afterward. We use them for our control arm relocation brackets to move the front diff forward.

watts link is one way to do fix the panhard also, and make roll centre adjustment, where the pivot moves to the middle, but the a frame bolt in, is what we have been playing with, to remove the panhard rod all together.

 

[unwiredadventures]

A photo of the offending bolt (and drop bracket):



I've had this in the box waiting to be installed. It'll wait a bit longer so I can get the correct parts.

 

[Ivan80]

The best thing to do with a MAF drop bracket, in any case, is what I did with mine: Sell it on MUD for 75% of what you paid for it and move on

You're welcome

 

[Nay]

You're welcome

Hey, it was a good deal. I saved you an hour of grinding at least just to make the thing fit

 

[Dusty]

the only way to get the riser to work is to have it not be vertical. If it were to rise at an angle toward the frame bracket so that it wasn't as tall but still centered the axle with the stock panhard you could get a little gain. But that would take some AutoCad work.

For now the drop bracket stays and will continue to perform perfectly I'm sure.

i was working on the rear axle panhard bracket only last night for my dana 70 swap. Rick there is plenty of room to go verticle with the axle side mount and there are multiple ways to do it. in my case I moved the rear axle back a few inches and am using the factory frame side panhard mount. trackbar is almost horizontal. only 4" lift but will be extending the factory bump stop the equivalent of about 3" and will need to cut out the fender/fender well somewhat toward the back of the fender.

I dont see how the crossmember is a problem but my rearend doesn't look anything like it did before the swap

and all else being equal raising the axle side panhard will likely make frame rubbing worse not better