Wanting to turbo a 5L Hilux (1 Viewer)

[maxdaaxe]

I have a 1999 2wd Hilux and I'm wanting to turbo it. I've been looking through previous threads on here about putting a turbo on a 5L though I'm not that experienced with diesels, and feeling that the answers aren't as specific as my knowledge requires. I currently have extractors, so I'm assuming they will have to be removed and replaced with a cast log manifold as my current budget most likely wouldn't allow me to buy a tubular manifold. I've seen that the TD04-13T is suitable for this application. I'm not sure how much boost I want just yet, not looking to go too silly, how much would be safe to put through an engine with 315 000 kms? I hear that @gerg and @Dougal are quite knowledgeable on the subject.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide!

 

[Dougal]

Pretty much. Keep it to single digits of boost and don't wind the fuel past an EGT of 650 or AFR of 20 and you'll be fine.

How the air filters have been maintained is a better indicator of engine health than mileage. If it's still starting well your compression is still good.

 

[maxdaaxe]

Pretty much. Keep it to single digits of boost and don't wind the fuel past an EGT of 650 or AFR of 20 and you'll be fine.

How the air filters have been maintained is a better indicator of engine health than mileage. If it's still starting well your compression is still good.

Thanks for your help!
I have a K&N filter so there's no real indication coming from that. But she has been struggling to start recently, likely because its so cold in Aus at the moment. I have an old Mazda B2500 with a WL84 turbo on it, and I'm thinking about possibly using that, and the intercooler from it too. It seems like it makes about 13-15 psi stock on the WL-T engine, am I able to keep that within those single digits, or do I just need to go with a different turbo anyway?

 

[Dougal]

Thanks for your help!
I have a K&N filter so there's no real indication coming from that. But she has been struggling to start recently, likely because its so cold in Aus at the moment. I have an old Mazda B2500 with a WL84 turbo on it, and I'm thinking about possibly using that, and the intercooler from it too. It seems like it makes about 13-15 psi stock on the WL-T engine, am I able to keep that within those single digits, or do I just need to go with a different turbo anyway?

A K&N filter will have let in dust and caused wear. Get a compression test.

 

[maxdaaxe]

A K&N filter will have let in dust and caused wear. Get a compression test.

I did recently oil the filter and there was no sign of dust anywhere on the clean side of the filter and air hoses

 

[Dougal]

I did recently oil the filter and there was no sign of dust anywhere on the clean side of the filter and air hoses

The particles they let through are too small to see. They're absolutely terrible things for engines. You will need a compression test.

 

[maxdaaxe]

The particles they let through are too small to see. They're absolutely terrible things for engines. You will need a compression test.

Right. I'll try to do it this weekend

 

[maxdaaxe]

The particles they let through are too small to see. They're absolutely terrible things for engines. You will need a compression test.

Ok I've just done the compression test.
All 4 cylinders are at exactly 400psi after 8 cycles (the gauge ticks up 8 times).
I've had no luck so far finding a TD04 near me that isn't priced ridiculously or needs a rebuild. The only working one is a Maxpeedingrods copy and they don't seem to review well.
Is the WL84 turbo suitable because I do have one already with intercooler too.

 

[Dougal]

Ok I've just done the compression test.
All 4 cylinders are at exactly 400psi after 8 cycles (the gauge ticks up 8 times).
I've had no luck so far finding a TD04 near me that isn't priced ridiculously or needs a rebuild. The only working one is a Maxpeedingrods copy and they don't seem to review well.
Is the WL84 turbo suitable because I do have one already with intercooler too.

That's weird. No-one gets exactly the same result on all cylinders. But oh well.

TD04 you'll be looking at aftermarket copies. The Mazda turbo will work but I don't know anything else about them.

 

[maxdaaxe]

That's weird. No-one gets exactly the same result on all cylinders. But oh well.

TD04 you'll be looking at aftermarket copies. The Mazda turbo will work but I don't know anything else about them.

Yes the gauge goes up to 1000 psi which is insane but that means it is harder to tell exactly where it is.
I think I'll pull apart the Mazda this week and just have a look. I might end up just modifying all the parts from it to fit to my ute, plus I remembered yesterday that it actually has a boost controller so I won't have to muck around with wastegates.

 

[maxdaaxe]

Ok so I've finished pulling all the parts off the Mazda and I think I'll just modify the manifold to fit the 5L as it seems very similar.
Also ignore what I said about a boost controller I do not have one I'm not sure where I got that idea from.
In terms of plumbing oil and coolant to the turbo, where should I be pulling those from and returning them to?
The WL-T seemed to have EGR so I'll have to plug that hole somehow.

 

[gigantorr]

The particles they let through are too small to see. They're absolutely terrible things for engines. You will need a compression test.

I don't hold shares in any of the companies whose products were tested in this article:
http://genieperformance.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/4WD-Action-air-filter-test.pdf
This site uses a Land Cruiser 200 as its test bed:
LandCruiser 200 Air Filter Testing - Project 200 - https://www.project200.com.au/filter-testing/
and makes reference to the 4WD Action test report with commentary around the test method used. For me a key difference between the two is that the 4WD Action test was performed by a NATA (Australian) certified test lab. From my knowledge of fluid flow (I've got a bit from design process piping system hydraulics), I'm not concerned whether fluid flow is motivated by forced draft (FD) or induced draft (ID). As long as the flowrate across the medium is representative of field conditions, I wouldn't be that concerned if the air is pushed or pull through. The key is mass flow and the differential pressure involved (refer below). I'd suggest that the method of dust addition will have greater impact on results. The project2000 method (refer the youtube review) is a bit rough, to be fair.

From my copy of ISO 5011 (see link below for a test involving that method), it does not dictate the use of an ID flow system, even though I'd agree that it does make intuitive sense, but refers to "typical test arrangements" where an ID fan is shown. Flow performance is reported at standard volumetric flow conditions, i.e. mass flow, which is insensitive to pressure effects. The various tests reference differential pressure and flow (for standard conditions of 20 °C and 101.3 kPa(abs), as per Annex G). Dust addition is continuous and constant and measured to insure that this occurs.

The project2000 site also publishes another report applying ISO 5011:
ISO5011 air filter comparison - https://www.project200.com.au/dm-iso5011/

What all that means, over to you.

However, I would say, that if I had a vehicle fitted with an elevated air intake (aka "snorkel"), then as project2000 dude suggests in his test youtube review, I'd be running with a cyclonic air pre-cleaner if I knew I was about to head off into bulldust country. Other than that, I'd be mindful of the installed filter's maintenance limitations and service it accordingly.

 

[gigantorr]

Regarding this question:

In terms of plumbing oil and coolant to the turbo, where should I be pulling those from and returning them to?

I'd defer to the experience of the HD Auto guys down at Rocklea:

The vid is cued to the segment relating to the oil return and the fun & games associated with a 4WD IFS front end. Note that they supply a Garrett turbo that uses metallurgy that can handle high temperatures, so the unit doesn't require water cooling. Even so, the vid is probably worth a watch the whole way through. You may pick up some useful pointers.

Regarding a water cooled unit, this blow-by-blow write up:
NewHilux.net • View topic - Fitting Turbo to 2.8 (3L) HiLux - https://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=13196
reads to my eyes as probably a good reference point to fill any remaining big gaps that you might need to deal with.

 

[maxdaaxe]

Regarding this question:

I'd defer to the experience of the HD Auto guys down at Rocklea:

The vid is cued to the segment relating to the oil return and the fun & games associated with a 4WD IFS front end. Note that they supply a Garrett turbo that uses metallurgy that can handle high temperatures, so the unit doesn't require water cooling. Even so, the vid is probably worth a watch the whole way through. You may pick up some useful pointers.

Regarding a water cooled unit, this blow-by-blow write up:
NewHilux.net • View topic - Fitting Turbo to 2.8 (3L) HiLux - https://www.newhilux.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=13196
reads to my eyes as probably a good reference point to fill any remaining big gaps that you might need to deal with.

Thank you that's all very informative.
I terms of my air filter, I'm not too worried as I live somewhere without much dust at all and won't be taking it to where there is lots of dust, so I'm just enjoying the reusability of my filter.
I should be right now to get the oil and water lines fitted thanks to those sources, however I'm still unsure about the wastegate and boost pressure control. If I want lower boost pressures (around 9 psi) should I be buying a boost controller tee, or will I be alright without? Also, what will I need to do to plumb the blow off valve onto the engine, and where?

Edit: I only have a 2wd so I shouldn't have the same issues with the front suspension as they did, granted the steering rod has enough clearance of course.

 

[gigantorr]

A vid popped into my feed that shows the RAG method of plumbing in the oil return (RAG = rough as guts) - cued for convenience (it's a 3L but the principle is the same):

Your choice on how you go. The fan on my ute has the oil sump fitting welded - I prefer a good job over a quick job.

Also note their experience with the clutch (bearing in mind that their vehicle has ~450,000 km on it). A note of caution there. My ute blew its clutch about 80,000 km or so before I did the turbo. I replaced the OEM with an HD organic with a claimed rating of 480 Nm of torque. So, I had no qualms about putting a blower on the 5L. You will read commentary out there about the G52 box that runs in an LN167 in terms of its strength / durability (they also talk about it in the vid). The reviews are mixed, however there is significant commentary that I've tapped into that as long as the turbo job isn't boosted to the max and AFRs are sensible, then what I've got should last with appropriate care. I'm not about to go hard core rock crawling, so I think it's a case of treating matters to suit how you'll use your vehicle.

What you've got in terms of your driveline is one to think about. Your comments sound like you're not planning to go nutz, so you can't go too far wrong with good sense behind you.

Regarding boost pressure, that's tech detail that I can't speak to with confidence. With my deal, I went for an HD Auto kit including a Garrett turbo (GBC17-250 36mm) that's set up with out of the box standard actuator set at a nominal 0.5 bar (7.3 psi) and had the job done by the kit supplier. The setup's final dyno tune reported a pretty flat 15 psi manifold pressure and an AFR of 22 down low and then flattening out to 20-21 across the mid to upper rev range.

By blow off valve, do you mean waste gate? Excuse my ignorance but doesn't the waste gate, simply bypass boost across to the exhaust? For the Garrett that I've got, the waste gate is integral to the whole unit so no plumbing required. If I've got the wrong end of the stick, forgive me. I'm not a turbo guru by any stretch. Your turbo sounds like its similar to Toyota unit used in the newhilux.net post that I linked to above. From a quick search of the first page, I'm not seeing reference to either waste gate or blow off discussion.

From my research, there's good value in planning in a dyno tune so that you can make sure that the fuel delivery is sweet. The last thing you'd want to do is run the engine rich and give yourself engine temperature problems. Hopefully, that's part of your thinking as well. Sounds like you're wanting to minimise outlay but even so, that's another thing to consider.

 

[maxdaaxe]

Yep I put in a new clutch probably only 7000 kms ago so there'll be no issues there.
I terms of the wastegate/blow-off valve I'm really not sure either I do think they are the same thing but I'm just throwing terms around trying to wrap my head around things.
I'm looking back now on the photos and the blue line that runs to the wastegate actually has a little t-joint in it so I'm just wondering where that could possibly lead to, maybe a gauge?
I do see where you're coming from in recommending a dyno tune so I'll try and find someone to do that for me before I go and fiddle with the fuel myself. Though, would it be better to turn it up just a touch before running it so it doesn't run too lean and cause even worse issues for me?

 

[gigantorr]

I'm looking back now on the photos and the blue line that runs to the wastegate actually has a little t-joint in it so I'm just wondering where that could possibly lead to, maybe a gauge?

Now your talking. A pressure sensor needs to tap in somewhere to get a reading.

I do see where you're coming from in recommending a dyno tune so I'll try and find someone to do that for me before I go and fiddle with the fuel myself. Though, would it be better to turn it up just a touch before running it so it doesn't run too lean and cause even worse issues for me?

Do your research (check youtube for vids put up by Berrima Diesel on tuning as one starting point) but mine tells me that lean will be OK, the engine just won't run !!!great!!!

Running rich (according to sources like Berrima Diesel) is the best way to cook an engine. The DIY instructions that came with the HD Auto Garrett turbo kit that I got for my LN167, advises to just install the turbo and then head over to your nearest competent dyno tuner. If you can figure out a way of measuring your AFR in DIY mode - then you could do some field tuning. What I've read online is old mate just dialing up the injection pump screw by X turns, giving themselves a thumbs up, heading down the road for a test drive, thinking "awesome I smoked the tyres, she must be about right", calling it job done and then heading to the pub. If you can suss out a way to do a half decent DIY job and not cook your engine because you've overfuelled it, then the internet community with diesel engines will be giving you a big round of applause. That would be a youtube vid worth watching. All the best.

 

[maxdaaxe]

If you can figure out a way of measuring your AFR in DIY mode - then you could do some field tuning.

Yes! What I might do is buy an AFR gauge and if I can get that hooked up, I'll be able to do it myself pretty easily I would think. With that in mind it may be easier to just buy a gauge cluster with boost, AFR and EGT, because it's probably a good idea to be keeping an eye on all those.

 

[Dougal]

I don't hold shares in any of the companies whose products were tested in this article:
http://genieperformance.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/4WD-Action-air-filter-test.pdf
This site uses a Land Cruiser 200 as its test bed:
LandCruiser 200 Air Filter Testing - Project 200 - https://www.project200.com.au/filter-testing/
and makes reference to the 4WD Action test report with commentary around the test method used. For me a key difference between the two is that the 4WD Action test was performed by a NATA (Australian) certified test lab. From my knowledge of fluid flow (I've got a bit from design process piping system hydraulics), I'm not concerned whether fluid flow is motivated by forced draft (FD) or induced draft (ID). As long as the flowrate across the medium is representative of field conditions, I wouldn't be that concerned if the air is pushed or pull through. The key is mass flow and the differential pressure involved (refer below). I'd suggest that the method of dust addition will have greater impact on results. The project2000 method (refer the youtube review) is a bit rough, to be fair.

From my copy of ISO 5011 (see link below for a test involving that method), it does not dictate the use of an ID flow system, even though I'd agree that it does make intuitive sense, but refers to "typical test arrangements" where an ID fan is shown. Flow performance is reported at standard volumetric flow conditions, i.e. mass flow, which is insensitive to pressure effects. The various tests reference differential pressure and flow (for standard conditions of 20 °C and 101.3 kPa(abs), as per Annex G). Dust addition is continuous and constant and measured to insure that this occurs.

The project2000 site also publishes another report applying ISO 5011:
ISO5011 air filter comparison - https://www.project200.com.au/dm-iso5011/

What all that means, over to you.

However, I would say, that if I had a vehicle fitted with an elevated air intake (aka "snorkel"), then as project2000 dude suggests in his test youtube review, I'd be running with a cyclonic air pre-cleaner if I knew I was about to head off into bulldust country. Other than that, I'd be mindful of the installed filter's maintenance limitations and service it accordingly.

You might have noticed that all heavy machinery run donaldson or equivalent cyclonic filters. Because nothing beats them for the ability to throw out dust and keep filtering.

The 4wd action test was using 5 micron particles which are relatively coarse. Even the 'coarse dust" test has ~11% of it's particles finer than that. The AULRO tests by Ben showed a graph of filtration efficiency vs particle size and it's damning: Air Filter Tests (Finally) - https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/50650-air-filter-tests-finally.html

At 4 micron the K&N filter is only filtering 50% where the coopers (genuine LR) filter is well over 90%. It gets worse as the particles get finer.

I've dusted an engine once so I run a donaldson cyclonic housing now.