Wandering all over the road

[carwashguy]

I’m new to this rig and cruisers in general so bear with me. I’ve put maybe 300 miles on this one since I’ve purchased it.
This thing is all over the road. It’s a 2 hand white knuckle ride. Faster you get the worse it is. It looks like a Dobson lift. Maybe 6 inches. No way to tell. It’s wearing both front tires on the inside quickly. The wheel bearings are tight when you jack it up and wiggle the tires. It does have a roaring noise coming from passenger side front when you let off the gas and slow down. Steering box has no noticeable play in it.
Had the front end aligned at my local shop and it was out a lot. We pulled it back in to Toyotas spec it’s still all over the place.
Seal on the drive line going into the front diff is leaking.
The bar that ties the tires together on the backside has witness marks on it from hitting the arms. What’s going on here?

 

[skateordiet]

I’m new to this rig and cruisers in general so bear with me. I’ve put maybe 300 miles on this one since I’ve purchased it.
This thing is all over the road. It’s a 2 hand white knuckle ride. Faster you get the worse it is. It looks like a Dobson lift. Maybe 6 inches. No way to tell. It’s wearing both front tires on the inside quickly. The wheel bearings are tight when you jack it up and wiggle the tires. It does have a roaring noise coming from passenger side front when you let off the gas and slow down. Steering box has no noticeable play in it.
Had the front end aligned at my local shop and it was out a lot. We pulled it back in to Toyotas spec it’s still all over the place.
Seal on the drive line going into the front diff is leaking.
The bar that ties the tires together on the backside has witness marks on it from hitting the arms. What’s going on here?

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How are the tie rod ends, panhard bushings, and radius arm bushings? If this is new to you it would be a great start to change those items since all of them could contribute to what you are describing.

 

[skateordiet]

How are the tie rod ends, panhard bushings, and radius arm bushings? If this is new to you it would be a great start to change those items since all of them could contribute to what you are describing.

That is the tie rod - and what they are hitting is the radius arm. It could be that the caster is not correct and allowing the arms to rub on the tie rod.

 

[subzali]

Can you post up a pic of the alignment report? The only thing a shop can adjust is the toe. Would be interesting to see what caster angle was measured. I think I see caster correction plates in your pics, but wonder if they are doing enough.

With a 6” lift what size tires are you running?

 

[Fj80oregon]

If the previous owner didn’t spend a significant amount of time and money on fixing the steering geometry than you got an uphill battle. You can figure out your lift easily, Measure from the center of the hub to the bottom of the fender flare at all four corners. It's generally accepted that about 20" is "stock" so if you measure 24" then you've got about 4" lift.
A six” lift is way overkill unless you’re doing some serious s***.
I would bet your castor is crazy out of spec!

 

[Nframe]

As mentioned, check your panhard bushings.

 

[Augustiron]

You can see caster correction plates in one of the photos, but that doesn't mean that they are correct for the amount of lift.
My first thought was to see the alignment report as well.

Also a big lift without an adjustable pan hard bracket, or Delta panhard relocation bracket in the rear will put the front and rear axles out of line with each other.

Post the alignment report and axle to flare measurements as mentioned.

 

[Kabanstva]

You can see caster correction plates in one of the photos, but that doesn't mean that they are correct for the amount of lift.
My first thought was to see the alignment report as well.

Also a big lift without an adjustable pan hard bracket, or Delta panhard relocation bracket in the rear will put the front and rear axles out of line with each other.

Post the alignment report and axle to flare measurements as mentioned.

I always wondered why nobody does a FRONT panhard relocation bracket? It's been a minute since I've been under there but is there no space for that up front or another reason?

 

[carwashguy]

It’s setting at 27 inches from center of hub to fender flare on all 4 corners give or take a 1/4 or so. Tires are 37x13.5 r22.Bushings look good without taking everything apart. Only suspicious ones are on the front seat bar.

 

[Augustiron]

Alignment and Caster #s?

Also, big tires like more toe in

22s?!? Yikes

I'd imagine there are sizable spacers on those wheels? I've had problems with bad spacers before causing vibrations and poor driving

 

[carwashguy]

Bushings in the rear look good as well.

 

[carwashguy]

I did not get a printout on the alignment. As soon as I can get it in my garage I’ll pull tires and measure it.
The all over the road feels like it starts in the front like it’s wandering at the slightest correction it comes back and wants to go the other way with just the smallest of movements from the steering wheel. I’ve had loose steering in other lifted trucks. I saw the wheel out of habit. Not this one. It’s super touchy. It almost feels like the back is loose when you start correcting it.

 

[Augustiron]

Adjustable links and panhard is good to see in the rear. Aftermarket links' bushings do tend to wear out faster than OEM ones though. Also hard to tell just by looking at them sometimes.

That LSPV lift bracket looks crazy long

Edit to your reply... Sounds like caster is out

If you really have a 7-in lift on that (just caught that!), it will be difficult to make handle properly.
I don't know of any caster correction plates that can go that far, really your only option to get caster properly is a set of Delta trailing arms.

In the future, always get a printout of an alignment

 

[carwashguy]

The shop that does all of my sketchy alignment jobs more than likely doesn’t have a printer honestly. I’ll measure it out in a day or two.
I dont have any history on this vehicle so I’m shooting blind. I believe the frame and all suspension components are fairly new. It’s almost like the body and motor was set on this frame. The frame is still shiny. Not a spec of rust anywhere. Transmission crossmember looks like it came off of a 30 year old truck. Frame is slick like it came from the showroom a few weeks ago. Was the land cruisers part of the frame recall like the tacomas?

 

[Augustiron]

Caster is likely the culprit with that much lift, and can't be measured easily at home...

Do some reading here about caster with taller lifts, The problems it presents and the solutions that are available.
It's all been covered before

 

[carwashguy]

Been reading on this forum for a few months. Forums like this are life savers for do it yourself guys. Appreciate the suggestions. Thank you for the quick responses.

 

[SpenserAK]

I always wondered why nobody does a FRONT panhard relocation bracket? It's been a minute since I've been under there but is there no space for that up front or another reason?

You want the relay rod/drag link pretty parallel with the panhard for proper handling purposes, which would get out of whack with a bracket, hence only using an adjustable panhard to center the axle. Rear is a different story given there's no steering.

7" is way overkill. If it were me, I would start by swapping in a reasonable lift, which will probably help a lot of the issue. Otherwise there's a lot to address to try to make the current unnecessary lift work well.

Mine came with an OME J-lift that sat at about 4", with 35s, and could have easily cleared 37s. I wanted to lower it to 2.5" but never got around to it. It simply had caster brackets, swaybar drop, and I added a rear panhard bracket. Handled really well IMO.

 

[FIDO96]

I did a 3” lift and it was like walking two Labrador puppies through a park full of squirrels before I got Delta VS radius arms and rear panhard bracket. Wasted money on correction bushing and plates first And yeah, sorry but anything over 3” is going to be a fight and for serious rock crawling. I’d start with a new lift, delta radius arms and panhard bracket and it will drive, ride and track like a brand new LC.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Had the front end aligned at my local shop and it was out a lot. We pulled it back in to Toyotas spec it’s still all over the place.

Someone else commented on this.

The only thing that can be changed with a typical alignment is toe IN/OUT just about anything else requires aftermarket parts.

7" lift is NEVER going to drive stable IMO
7" lift, so much of this is miles beyond toyota specs. You've got your work cut out for you, and your wallet to bring steering and suspension back to good road manners territory.

You have caster correction plates on standard radius arms.
About the most caster correction you can get with plates is about 5⁰. Any more, and the tire rod well rub on the radius arms (this looks to already be happening).
7" lift will shift caster angles by about 12⁰ (~1.7⁰ per inch of lift).
Standard caster is around 2-3⁰, yours has changed by 12⁰ due to stupid 7" lift, corrected by maybe 5⁰.
3⁰ - 12⁰ = -9⁰
-9⁰ + 5⁰ = -4⁰, aka it's gonna drive like a shopping cart loaded with sackcrete.

With that amount of lift, every millimetre of play in bearings, bushes, steering boxes etc is going to be amplified.

A good start would be reading threads on what it takes to fit 37" tires.
And, search threads talking about Delta VS radius arms @Delta VS

 

[Delta VS]

Correcting caster with as few of parts as possible is good (along with all of the stuff mentioned by others in this thread), and understanding that you likely won't be able to get to factory spec caster with that much lift without:

A: getting vibrations from bad pinion angles
which will lead you to
B: doing a part time conversion (locking front hubs and the associated parts)
OR
C: settling on some amount less than ideal caster that you find through trial and error which gives acceptable (to you) driving characteristics

You would also benefit greatly from a panhard lift bracket, specifically the 5" version, read about why in first post here: Delta Vehicle Systems Panhard Lift Bracket, 3" & 5" - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/delta-vehicle-systems-panhard-lift-bracket-3-5.1085308/ This is actually a really good place to start, as it will eliminate the part of "fighting your way down the road" your current rear panhard bar angle is contributing. After addressing that you can focus on the front suspension and tuning things up there.