Vortec 5.3 or 5.7 for my 60?

[Elbert]

I have a Mark's Adapter in my truck with an H55 and a 5.3 and like Lehiguy says, I'd be tempted to skip the Mark's adapter no matter what you do to simplify things. The work to move the cross member will not be a big deal compared to the rest of the job. And, for what it's worth, you should probably have your driveshafts looked at while they are out... shortening and lengthening them while the shop is at it won't be a huge hit on the budget.

I considered doing an NV4500 because I might be able to use a regular bellhousing and not move stuff too much. I'll decide for sure when I take mine apart to look at the clutch and tranny in a few weeks. I think there is funkyness going on in the Mark's adapter. As for how they drive, I can only say i've driven one truck (cruiser with a 350) with the NV4500, and the shifting seemed fine, the big difference was the gear ratios. Drive something with both trannys and see what you prefer. The NV4500's can be had with really deep 1st gears which is nice. My H55 felt like a car tranny in comparison...

Funny you should mention clutch thing...."we" are having to look at my clutch at present time (I too run marks adapter)... Some work was done that included adjusting the clutch by a shop...waiting to see results of the disassembly... slipping at present. Initial view is that clutch adjustment was not done correctly ...still waiting to see.

 

[orangefj45]

anyone know which chevy trucks used a 5.7 with a NV4500??

Looks like 2006-7 Chevy silverado 6.0 only from what I can find

Can a 4500 be positioned with the LC t/c with out chopping the dog house? I recall having to relocate the shifter hole on the last conversion. I really want keep it clean and stock looking. Thanks

uhmmm, the 5.7 ended in 2001 afaik.

 

[rover67]

"like a car tranny" how do you mean?

I mean in two ways... the gearing and the feel.

The H55 feels less notchy than the NV4500 that I drove and has more even and closely spaced gears. The evenly spaced gears in the H55 make it feel like a tranny out of a car (to me) because each gear drops relatively few RPMS and the RPM change is more consistent. Also, it feels kinda more "vauge" than the NV4500 but pretty easy to push into gear and tight. Kinda more like a tranny with a shift linkage.

The NV4500 had much more of a hard "click" into gear. It felt more direct in it's shifting, and the gear spacing was pretty different between the gears. The nice tight shift feel reminded me of how a tranny with no shift linkage should feel. The bigger differences in the gears are necessary since they are trying to bridge the gap between that deep first gear and the 1:1 4th gear, so the drops in RPM are reflective of that. In other words it felt obvious that 1st was an especially low gear, and shifting into second came really quick. Then the 2-3 shift felt like it dropped the rpm's a ton. 3-4th felt nice, and 5th is a nice tall overdrive.

I ended up driving it without using 1st which made it feel a bit more normal (and I think is what most folks do on the street), but it still felt like a widely spaced tranny with only 4 gears at that point. It seems to me that the NV4500 is a truck tranny that is built to be used in truck environment where a deep 1st gear is important. The H55 strikes me more as a tranny for something that is driven on the street more.

So, they both have their benefits and compromises. I personally like my H55 and its gearing for the street. BUT that NV4500 had a damn nice 1st gear that is nice in the rocks, and it had a taller overdrive.. which I like. The taller OD means you can run bigger final drive gears and keep a lower cruising RPM. So, using the NV4500 can net you a decent crawl ratio without sacrificing too much HWY driveability. The H55 has nice closely spaced gears that feel nice driving around, but you can't get the same crawl ratio with it's taller 1st gear.. and the OD is not as tall so you have to go with slightly taller final drive gears to make up for it..

Does this make sense?

To those of you that have driven both, does this sound like a fair assessment?

 

[rover67]

Funny you should mention clutch thing...."we" are having to look at my clutch at present time (I too run marks adapter)... Some work was done that included adjusting the clutch by a shop...waiting to see results of tear down... slipping at present. Initial view is that clutch adjustment was not done correctly ...still waiting to see.

Seems like we are always riding each others coat tails on the evolution of our swaps!

My clutch still grabs pretty well (not enough to do a burn out anymore.. but it'll chirp 'em goin' into second) but there is a vibration that I think is originating from it or the combination of it and the Mark's Adapter.

 

[orangefj45]

i'd put it this way:

h55f = 2011 honda goldwing

NV4500 = harley knucklehead

they both get the job done. one does so with brute strength , the other with finesse........

georg

 

[Elbert]

yeah... no doubt that the NV4500 is HD truck transmission with long throws between gears and somewhat rough gear change feel, while the yota 5 speed is very smooth and precise. Of course the NV4500 is a 3/4 and 1 ton transmission so you should not expect somethign that shifts like a sports car. When I use the word rough...its not bad...just not nearly as smooth as the yota 5 speed.

The toyota manuals I've driven to include my own 60 and a tacoma I had in the past along with other toyota products shifted precise and smooth all the time. The NV4500 trucks I've driven (GM 3/4 and 1 ton trucks) shifted fine but you certainly had the feel of a large truck and its not like running through the gears on a Z/28 or the sports car of your choice. More rugged with long throws between gears...

Basically the NV4500 colors show and you have no doubt you are working a HD truck transmission. As noted above..generally a pretty low 1st gear, reasonable splits between teh gear ratios..(suitable for a GM V-8...)and a nice 5th gear for the hwy. I like the NV4500 and think its a good transmission, and its probally a personal view but I think it would be very well suited for off-road as well. Low first gear is a good thing, as I've spent many rides off road trying to contol speeds down in the fist gear range to include low range. I presently have 4.11 gears and run 33 tires, soon to change to 4.88 gears and 35 tires when teh present tires wear out.

I'm looking at my issues with the clutch/ marks adapter (with my friends help)... if I do consider other alternatives...my next choice is a NV4500. I don't have any problem with the yota 5 speed...I think my issues relate to what's between the transmisison and the flywheel.

I agree with other's assessments above...

 

[Elbert]

Seems like we are always riding each others coat tails on the evolution of our swaps!

My clutch still grabs pretty well (not enough to do a burn out anymore.. but it'll chirp 'em goin' into second) but there is a vibration that I think is originating from it or the combination of it and the Mark's Adapter.

yeah.. I need to take a job overseas or something and then come back and you'll have solved all my issues

another funny thing note: I did not ask for the clutch pedal to be adjusted...I don't know the factual results just yet but I do know clutch slips, and when you have the clutch pedal on teh floor whilte in gear you can hear a bearing type noise...if you then let off the clutch pedal just a little the noise goes away (release bearing). (I'm learning more about this stuff every day).. its slipping when you first engage 3rd and 5th...


I noticed when I drove your truck that the clutch grabs when the clutch pedal is just barely off the bottom of its travel....mine was very close to the same thing (pre adjustment)... post adjustment the clutch did not release until all the way at the top of the pedals travel, and until we know more we (friend and I) question if it was releasing properly then. I'll post more once more is known.

I don't think anyone around my area has a NV4500 in their cruiser, and I don't see that many 60's out anyway.

Anyone know if the NV4500 has a built in place for a VSS?

 

[weak-link]

In California how do you get around the fact an OBDII swap, it needs the stock fuel tank from the vehicle the engine is from?

 

[weak-link]

In cali here is our vague guide lines

Engine Change Guidelines



per above gov web site a 6.0 is totally legal, 1ton and down are light duty. medium duty would be something like a Kodiak or an f-550,etc...right?

 

[lehiguy]

yeah... no doubt that the NV4500 is HD truck transmission with long throws between gears and somewhat rough gear change feel, while the yota 5 speed is very smooth and precise. Of course the NV4500 is a 3/4 and 1 ton transmission so you should not expect somethign that shifts like a sports car. When I use the word rough...its not bad...just not nearly as smooth as the yota 5 speed.

The toyota manuals I've driven to include my own 60 and a tacoma I had in the past along with other toyota products shifted precise and smooth all the time. The NV4500 trucks I've driven (GM 3/4 and 1 ton trucks) shifted fine but you certainly had the feel of a large truck and its not like running through the gears on a Z/28 or the sports car of your choice. More rugged with long throws between gears...

Basically the NV4500 colors show and you have no doubt you are working a HD truck transmission. As noted above..generally a pretty low 1st gear, reasonable splits between teh gear ratios..(suitable for a GM V-8...)and a nice 5th gear for the hwy. I like the NV4500 and think its a good transmission, and its probally a personal view but I think it would be very well suited for off-road as well. Low first gear is a good thing, as I've spent many rides off road trying to contol speeds down in the fist gear range to include low range. I presently have 4.11 gears and run 33 tires, soon to change to 4.88 gears and 35 tires when teh present tires wear out.

I'm looking at my issues with the clutch/ marks adapter (with my friends help)... if I do consider other alternatives...my next choice is a NV4500. I don't have any problem with the yota 5 speed...I think my issues relate to what's between the transmisison and the flywheel.

I agree with other's assessments above...

I have to think you were driving an older Dodge version. I put 100,000 miles on an H55 before going to he NV4500 therefore I can confidently say that the shifter throw on the NV4500 Chevy version is shorter than the H55. Engagement is better too. Ratios are wider, that is true, more suited to higher torque engines, not 2Fs. Mine is not the super deep first gear version, it is 5.6:1 first and even so it doesn't get used much. Mostly I drive it like a four speed, but with the 350 I did the same with the H55. The early Dodge versions will accept the later, shorter throw shifter (all Chevys were short throw.) Without it they suck.

 

[cosmo]

where did you guys source your 5.3's from???
the cheepest I can find is $2500. for a 5.3 with 4l60 and all the fix'ins and a skimpy 30 day warranty. Not impressed with that at all. I can't seem to find a donor truck in the price range with less than 200K on the odom. still deciding on auto vs NV4500. Intended use: Daily driver mostly and weekend family/friend overland adventures as well as occasionally towing an fj40 on a trailer. Spring over will most likely happen at the same time as engine conversion. you guys have been fantastic with all your help on the matter. Thanks.

 

[orangefj45]

where did you guys source your 5.3's from???
the cheepest I can find is $2500. for a 5.3 with 4l60 and all the fix'ins and a skimpy 30 day warranty. Not impressed with that at all. I can't seem to find a donor truck in the price range with less than 200K on the odom. still deciding on auto vs NV4500. Intended use: Daily driver mostly and weekend family/friend overland adventures as well as occasionally towing an fj40 on a trailer. Spring over will most likely happen at the same time as engine conversion. you guys have been fantastic with all your help on the matter. Thanks.

that's a rip-off! the most i ever paid for a complete vortec was $1750. but that was a low milage 6.0 a couple of years ago and it came with everything and i mean everything. around here, i can buy 5.3 vortecs for $1200 all day long.

maybe try calling viking auto wreckers in redding and see what they have. i believe they drive up and down the I-5 corridor quite a bit as well.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

 

[Kurtis]

Just my opinon but I prefer the auto. For your money the auto is much better off road. You can find them cheaper and they are cheaper to rebuild as well. Try going on one of those craigslist search tools and search the surrounding 400 or 500 mile area and your bound to find one. A couple months ago there was a 67k motor all accessories, ecm with trans going for 1200$.

On the SOA from expeirence you save a good chunk of change by doing them together. I would say at least 4-500$. Basically you don't need to have driveshafts made twice and when installing the motor you don't have to worry about messing with the oil pan. It will also give more freedom installing the exhaust and placing the motor.
Depending on the condition of your truck when doing a motor swap SOA wont really add to much cost anyway For me my front end needed rebuilt anyway, my steering needed replaced so the additional cost was very minimal. Time wise it only takes a couple days.

 

[cosmo]

that's a rip-off! the most i ever paid for a complete vortec was $1750. but that was a low milage 6.0 a couple of years ago and it came with everything and i mean everything. around here, i can buy 5.3 vortecs for $1200 all day long.

maybe try calling viking auto wreckers in redding and see what they have. i believe they drive up and down the I-5 corridor quite a bit as well.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

I'll check them out for sure, Thanks. If I can get the whole shabang on a pallet for 1200. low mileage and a warranty I'd be a very happy camper. I don't want any surprises with the main ingredient (the engine) I'll have enough to do as it is.
Do you have the necessary AAdaptor for the 4l60 to LC T/C available? quanta quest $

 

[cosmo]

Just my opinon but I prefer the auto. For your money the auto is much better off road. You can find them cheaper and they are cheaper to rebuild as well. Try going on one of those craigslist search tools and search the surrounding 400 or 500 mile area and your bound to find one. A couple months ago there was a 67k motor all accessories, ecm with trans going for 1200$.

On the SOA from expeirence you save a good chunk of change by doing them together. I would say at least 4-500$. Basically you don't need to have driveshafts made twice and when installing the motor you don't have to worry about messing with the oil pan. It will also give more freedom installing the exhaust and placing the motor.
Depending on the condition of your truck when doing a motor swap SOA wont really add to much cost anyway For me my front end needed rebuilt anyway, my steering needed replaced so the additional cost was very minimal. Time wise it only takes a couple days.

Thanks Kurtis. That's kinda of what I figured also and might as well do it all while it's down and be done with it. My springs are FLAT!! 218k on them. the PO installed load helpers in back so it rides like a truck. I can feel every bump and crack in the road. tie rod ends are toast and the box may need to be replaced (I have one in a box). lots of free play in the middle and that's with stock tires on. Can't (don't want to) imagine what that would feel like with 35's scary!! auto lane change with the terrible rutted Oregon roads. Gunna be a spendy project

 

[cosmo]

anyone have pictures of interior auto shifter set up? Engine bay, etc. Lets get some Pic's going! Show off your set up! I need motivation and inspiration. Cheers

 

[Elbert]

It most likely depends on what year model 6.0 engine you are talking about along with which transmisison if $2500 is reasonable. I suspect that with a 07 6.0 engine and the 6 speed auto...$2500 would be a reasonable price.

I've not priced the 6.0 engines, but I when I bought my 5.7, I bought it complete from a salvage year on Ebay... witih all the accessories, wiring harnes, air filter housing....etc.

I would want all the "crap" with the engine. Air filter, all the accesories, the wiring harnes, the PCM and wiring harness for the transmission and whatever is invovled with it, along with whatever else I could get from under the hood related to emissions, or brackets etc.

Assume you need the gas pedal and hanress too. Also wonder how you could control the haul tow mode with aftermarket controls, along with the up / down electronic control of the transmission gear when in mnual mode.

A 6.0 engine would be really nice if you had all the controls figured out.

 

[cosmo]

on the fence

So I've been Driving a low mileage carberated 350 fitted FJ60 WOW! what a difference. I've been in the middle of a move so I used it to pull a 12x6 trailer loaded with Fj40 and 60 spare parts boxes and tool boxes probably 3k lbs plus the "junk inside the cab.It still pulls well but you can fell the weight in the body around the corners. But in terms of cost effectiveness this basic 350 is a real work horse. Makes me wonder what a 6.0 feels like. I am planning a X-country trip possible with and Airstream or My FJ40 in tow if we relocate. Would a 6.0 with 6L80 be best? Can the frame handle it?? Someone sugested that a tbi 350 produced more torque than the 5.3 or 5.7 is this true?

For the simplicity and cost of it all I'm tempted to just go with the 350. but the towing power of the 6.0 has me twitching. I also like the skinny pedal and pulling power.

 

[MANUCHAO]

I pull a 3k trailer with my 5.3 n some times wished I had the 6.0 some times but not often..... The bigger tranny is def a good upgrade specially if thinking of towing often

 

[Elbert]

The TBI 5.7 is the lowest performer in torque and hp of the group of engines you mentioned. the 6.0 would be at the top, and I think the 5.3 make a little bit more power than the 5.7.

I just don't think the FJ60 is a great towing vehcile...both in power and brakes.

A carbed 5.7 most likely makes more power than a TBI, or at least you could with some decent cylinder heads.

The 6.0 engine will really tow well...it and the matching auto transmission will be a little expensive. My 2500HD pickup with 6.0 tows around 9K fine...but it is a 2500 series truck.