Valve Seals/Springs

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Changed the F135 valve stem seals from O-ring to umbrella type. I had a little smoke after a long idle or on a warm start.....................smoke is gone.

Used Fel-Pro SS72616 umbrella seals, these are for Ford 170, 200, 250 six cylinders. The inner valve spring on the Cruiser was to small for the umbrella, I was going to pitch the inner spring, but didn't want to risk valve float at high rpm's...............

So I ordered up some new valve springs, I used Comp Cams 961, and pulled the dampener. Here's the stock spring next to new spring.

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Here's the stock O-ring seal and the umbrella seal.

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

And the homemade valve spring compressor. Make sure the cylinder is at TDC, put it in 4th gear and set the parking brake, put air to the cylinder. My tool takes about four hands to use, but it's better than pulling the head.

Anyhow, so far so good, runs nice and doesn't smoke, we'll see what happens.

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Hi Jim,

What's the advantage of using the Umbrella type vs the O-ring?

Thanks,
Dean

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

The O-ring is a misleading name. Neither of these are positive seals, they count on shedding the oil away from the valve stem. You can see the O-ring is more like a canopy where the oil runs off but can still splash right on the top of the guide. The Umbrella is more like a tent it gives more protection since it covers the top of the guide.

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Thanks Jim...btw...home made tools are always the most used tools in my box

 

[middlecalf]

Hi Jim @Cruiser_Nerd - very old thread but do you know when (or even if) the F135s would have gotten the umbrella seals? I have a ‘64 production F135 with umbrellas, but I have no knowledge of the history of the motor so I don’t know if these are original or a PO upgraded them like you did. My ‘65 parts book only shows the o-ring seals and only six at that (for which valves? intake I assume). Thanks.

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

I believe the valves and seals were the same until the siamese head was changed '68(or so).

 

[middlecalf]

Thanks Jim for all the info.

This adds to my confusion, it’s from the Sept 1966 Toyota F-Engine Repair Manual. No mention of any seal, just an oil shield on top of the springs and the o-ring that goes on the top of the retainer lock. Dang.

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

I could be wrong. The shield looks pretty good too.

 

[middlecalf]

What appears to be beneficial about the shields (if they actually exist, I've another thread seeking pics from anyone who's actually seen these) is that the oil dripping from the rocker arm would stay on the outside of the springs, and hence mostly on the outside of the spring seats to drain back to the oil pan. With any of the seal options inside the springs, oil would still be able to get into the spring seats and then into the valve openings. You had success with umbrella seals so maybe this is a moot point.

on edit - they exist! Picture of valve

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

I am in no way an engine expert. But my worry with the umbrella seal was that it would keep too much oil away from the stem and guide (which has not been issue).

The shields will still allow a good amount of oil down the stem through the locks on the stem which are not completely static. That would address the above . I'm surprised someone has not chimed in with adressing the actual issue which was/is worn guides.

And since you might get a laugh out of it, the page from the early FJ25 manual:

 

[middlecalf]

No way I get a laugh out of any manual, esp. one of the early ones! That is awesome Jim, thanks for sharing. BTW, since you’ve at least had your engine partially apart (maybe completely) you are an engine expert!

So what motor are they referring to in that manual? If it’s an F135, there’s a disagreement between that an the F-engine repair manual on construct (e.g. one vs. two springs, o-ring vs. umbrella seal). If it’s an F120 or something else, I’m even more ignorant about them - and I’m pretty ignorant on the 135’s, .

 

[middlecalf]

And because I’m completely twitterpated about this (lol - not the Bambi twitterpated) are there sub-versions of these motors? Who are the engine experts?

 

[middlecalf]

@Cruiser_Nerd what year is your motor?

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

The one pictured in this thread is a '64.

Regarding the manual, the would have been for an F120. I do not put much faith in any early Toyota drawings, they are more often more art than technical drawings.

 

[middlecalf]

The FJ25 manual‘s depiction of the valve setup in Fig. 24 looks exactly like the valve setup in my 40201 stamped head (block is stamped 040207, so very likely a match, pics here Picture of valve) for all components: single spring, valve stem oil seal, valve spring cap and stopper with no other seal or groove for one. If yours is a late 64 stamped head then it looks like the dual spring, oil shield and o-ring oil seal transitioned in sometime in ‘64. But I don’t see any oil shields on yours, and the oil seal o-ring is below, not in a groove above the spring cap, so maybe there’s even another transition between mid-64 and late ‘65 like @Citrus Cruiser ‘s :

 

[ToyotaMatt]

The FJ25 manual‘s depiction of the valve setup in Fig. 24 looks exactly like the valve setup in my 40201 stamped head (block is stamped 040207, so very likely a match) for all components: single spring, valve stem oil seal, valve spring cap and stopper with no other seal or groove for one. If yours is a late 64 stamped head then it looks like the dual spring, oil shield and o-ring oil seal transitioned in sometime in ‘64. But I don’t see any oil shields on yours, and the oil seal o-ring is below, not in a groove above the spring cap, so maybe there’s even another transition between mid-64 and late ‘65 like @Citrus Cruiser ‘s :
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hi Paul

i have my 1967 paper Print parts cataloger if you need more diagrams , let me know how i can further help you in any way

matt