V35A-FTS bearing issue?

[Jetboy]

Toyota has been in the manufacturing business a long time. Leaving metal from machining engines inside the engine is a serious mistake. That's engine building 101 - clean it up before you assemble. It is also somewhat unusual to have it show up as a bearing failure at 30k miles and not at 500 miles if it is contamination in the oil. The oil would go sump > pump > filter > gallery > main bearing. The places where machining or other debris would matter would have to be somewhere between the filter and the main bearings, so presumably that's in the oil gallery or the oil passageways to the main bearing. So - that points to having machining debris in the oil gallery or oil flow path between the filter and main bearing, but also not dislodging for many engine cycles if the cause is the debris actually getting into the bearing surface. The alternative possibility is that it is clogging up the pathway and starving the bearing for oil. It's pretty easy to tell the difference for an engineer at Toyota when they inspect the bearings. Hard to tell from a random photo on the internet.

Just a bit unusual that it wouldn't flush out or into the bearing immediately if there are free floating particles and also unexpected to have large enough or enough volume of particles or chunks of stuff to starve the main bearing for oil flow. Also unusual that it seems to be the front main bearing on most if it was machining debris in the gallery unless it happens to accumulate for some reason toward the front.

My guess on the "fix": Toyota offers oil analysis and extends warranty to 10 years 100k miles and calls it a day. I also bet that Toyota expands the recall to later engines - that's pretty common as more data points come in on newer engines.

 

[ryanjl]

Maybe Toyota means the blocks were contaminated with crappy bearings?

 

[Brown98LC]

Toyota has been in the manufacturing business a long time. Leaving metal from machining engines inside the engine is a serious mistake. That's engine building 101 - clean it up before you assemble. It is also somewhat unusual to have it show up as a bearing failure at 30k miles and not at 500 miles if it is contamination in the oil. The oil would go sump > pump > filter > gallery > main bearing. The places where machining or other debris would matter would have to be somewhere between the filter and the main bearings, so presumably that's in the oil gallery or the oil passageways to the main bearing. So - that points to having machining debris in the oil gallery or oil flow path between the filter and main bearing, but also not dislodging for many engine cycles if the cause is the debris actually getting into the bearing surface. The alternative possibility is that it is clogging up the pathway and starving the bearing for oil. It's pretty easy to tell the difference for an engineer at Toyota when they inspect the bearings. Hard to tell from a random photo on the internet.

Just a bit unusual that it wouldn't flush out or into the bearing immediately if there are free floating particles and also unexpected to have large enough or enough volume of particles or chunks of stuff to starve the main bearing for oil flow. Also unusual that it seems to be the front main bearing on most if it was machining debris in the gallery unless it happens to accumulate for some reason toward the front.

My guess on the "fix": Toyota offers oil analysis and extends warranty to 10 years 100k miles and calls it a day. I also bet that Toyota expands the recall to later engines - that's pretty common as more data points come in on newer engines.

Some guys in the Middle East are also claiming to have engine failures on 2024s...so yeah could be.

 

[carboncycles]

Wonder if this failure is related to the turbo failures in the 2022+ Tundras? I stopped following on what was the root cause for the turbo failures....

 

[ryanwgregg]

Wonder if this failure is related to the turbo failures in the 2022+ Tundras? I stopped following on what was the root cause for the turbo failures....

They weren't turbo failures, but rather an issue with how the Electronic Wastegate was assembled, causing binding the actuator arm...

There have been turbo failures, but the initial issue was not failures...

 

[Jeremy556]

Some guys in the Middle East are also claiming to have engine failures on 2024s...so yeah could be.

There's a few 2024s here as well

 

[TXSunDevil]

I didn't realize the 2024s had these issues too. Really makes me want to reevaluate that GX550. Guess I will stay tuned

 

[OSS]

I don’t think we’re going to get any really useful information about the root cause of this from the mothership.
Example:
Toyota recalled all the gas tanks on all the FJ60s (which is still active today) without any real explanation. To this day, they’ll still replace an old FJ60 gas tank for free 40 years later. But there’s no explanation as to why it’s recalled.

 

[OregonLC]

Lots of support for them in the Middle East and Australia.

For the Patrol yes, for the Frontier, Titan, Xterra or Pathfinder it's very limited compared to the Toyota or Jeep.

 

[rexington14]

My guess on the "fix": Toyota offers oil analysis and extends warranty to 10 years 100k miles and calls it a day. I also bet that Toyota expands the recall to later engines - that's pretty common as more data points come in on newer engines.

I've seen a few people now bring up "oil analysis" included as a possible remedy, and I really don't understand it. What do you mean?

Is the dealership service tech going to eyeball the drained oil looking for debris? Maybe run it through a very fine strainer to see if any debris gets caught?

Or are you talking about Toyota establishing an integration / partnership with an external company to perform all of these analyses using specialized equipment (like a Blackstone)? This sounds like a logistical challenge (collection, labeling, shipping, tracking, awaiting, receiving, evaluating, communicating, etc.). As a result this seems highly impractical.

Regardless, in either case, there would need to be highly accurate upper bounds established that determine what amounts of X,Y,Z in an oil sample lead to a decision to either a) schedule an immediate repair, or b) do nothing. No other outcome really matters. And if it's not accurate, and a customer tests below these levels, is told they don't qualify for repair, but then their engine blows the next week, they are going to be super, super, super, pissed off. Way more than if their engine just blew up in the first place.

Folks, you're getting an extended warranty, and that's that. And when (if) your engine starts knocking, or it completely blows on the highway, that's when it will be fixed. Alternatively, and less likely, Toyota is just going to bite the bullet and offer the repair to all owners - with a long scheduling wait list.

 

[UZJ100LC]

Nissan armada/patrol pro 4x edition
Would probably replace my 100 series if it ever came true

 

[Jetboy]

I've seen a few people now bring up "oil analysis" included as a possible remedy, and I really don't understand it. What do you mean?

Is the dealership service tech going to eyeball the drained oil looking for debris? Maybe run it through a very fine strainer to see if any debris gets caught?

Or are you talking about Toyota establishing an integration / partnership with an external company to perform all of these analyses using specialized equipment (like a Blackstone)? This sounds like a logistical challenge (collection, labeling, shipping, tracking, awaiting, receiving, evaluating, communicating, etc.). As a result this seems highly impractical.

Regardless, in either case, there would need to be highly accurate upper bounds established that determine what amounts of X,Y,Z in an oil sample lead to a decision to either a) schedule an immediate repair, or b) do nothing. No other outcome really matters. And if it's not accurate, and a customer tests below these levels, is told they don't qualify for repair, but then their engine blows the next week, they are going to be super, super, super, pissed off. Way more than if their engine just blew up in the first place.

Folks, you're getting an extended warranty, and that's that. And when (if) your engine starts knocking, or it completely blows on the highway, that's when it will be fixed. Alternatively, and less likely, Toyota is just going to bite the bullet and offer the repair to all owners - with a long scheduling wait list.

I'm thinking the chemical analysis. If the bearing is failing consistent with the ones I've seen pictures of - the chemical analysis should be showing high metals. It's not always a sure thing and it doesn't always tell much if you do own random test, you really need a history of testing the same machine to get a baseline. What I would to if I were Toyota on this would be to cover oil changes to 100k miles (it's only 10 oil changes for most trucks and the first 2 are already free). And I'd set some limit for the best identifier metals in the test. Then I'd test at every oil change. For Toyota that probably only costs a few $. Maybe even develop an on-site test that only look for copper or lead. Possibly a conductivity test or ? I haven't thought about what is the right test for this. These are catastrophic failures, so they should be sending a ton of material into the oil. The goal isn't to prevent it. Just to catch it before it fails on the highway. - The 10k oil interval is a big problem with this approach though. Not sure it would work all that well. But it give the appearance of doing something "scientific" even if it's really just for show.

A potential part way option is to develop a flush and test system where the engine oil system can be accessed (pull the front covers), flush the engine and oil paths with some special service tool.

For has had engines with casting sand left in them. They just ignored it and let them age out of warranty. Hopefully that's not the answer.

 

[OSS]

Back in the day when Ford Explorers we’re hot, (35 years ago) I had a friend (girl) who had a fairly new one It seemed to me to be making a little more noise at idle than I remembered. The next time we took it to the dealership for service, I mentioned the noisier idle — and they scheduled a complete engine replacement. The engine got replaced.
They never told us anything about the issue, just leave your car here for a week, the engine is going to be replaced.
And that was that.

 

[M1911]

Well, I’m out. I just put money down on an LX 570. Hope to take delivery on Friday.

 

[TheLCProject]

Well, I’m out. I just put money down on an LX 570. Hope to take delivery on Friday.

Deets!? I'm coming back to the idea of putting a Scheel-mann seat in just to make a 200 work until this all gets sorted out.

 

[Acrad]

Back in the day when Ford Explorers we’re hot, (35 years ago) I had a friend (girl) who had a fairly new one It seemed to me to be making a little more noise at idle than I remembered. The next time we took it to the dealership for service, I mentioned the noisier idle — and they scheduled a complete engine replacement. The engine got replaced.
They never told us anything about the issue, just leave your car here for a week, the engine is going to be replaced.
And that was that.

Must have been the Cologne 4.0L that was in the first Ford Explorers in '91

My nephew still has my '96 5.0L AWD Explorer I purchased new.... still on stock radiator, starter, fuel pump, alternator, transmission 4R70-W, BW4404 center viscous coupling and of course 302.

Only failures ..... a couple water pumps over the years

I always tell him it is a domestic Toyota as in XLT trim w/V8 so none of the problem areas of other trims and powertain options... frankly couldn't ask for the vehicle to be more reliable for the day

 

[ryanwgregg]

NHTSA has been updated. Here are the links to the documents on NHTSA.gov

Recall Acknowledgement - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCAK-24V381-9859.pdf
Recall 573 Report - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V381-6004.PDF
Manufacturer Notice to Dealers (LX600) -https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCMN-24V381-1577.pdf
Toyota Defect Information Report - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RMISC-24V381-8150.pdf
Manufacturer Notice to Dealers (Tundra) - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCMN-24V381-3977.pdf

 

[OSS]

Excerpt:

“Description of Problem:
The subject vehicles are equipped with a specific V35A engine that contains crankshaft main bearings which allow the crankshaft to rotate within the engine assembly while running. During a specific production period, there is a possibility that engine machining debris of a particular size and amount may not have been cleared from the engine during manufacturing and subsequently contaminated the engine assembly during the production process. For these engines in the subject vehicles, the pressure on the main bearings due to the engine configuration is such that, if the aforementioned machining debris adheres to the bearings and operation of the engine continues at higher loads over time, failure of the bearings may occur. This can lead to potential engine knocking, engine rough running, engine no start and/or an engine stall. In the subject vehicles, an engine stall while driving leads to a loss of motive power. A vehicle loss of motive power while driving at higher speeds can increase the risk of a crash.”

 

[Oakleyguy]

Interesting excerpt from Section 2, Note 2 of the Defect Information Report:

"V35A engines of this configuration, manufactured after this production period, were manufactured with new or improved processes that better clear machining debris."

 

[ryanwgregg]

Pg. 3, Section 4 - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RMISC-24V381-8150.pdf

"Toyota is unable to estimate the percentage of the involved vehicles to actually contain the defect described in Section 5. However, as the NHTSA manufacturer portal requires an integer value be entered, Toyota has entered the value “1” in response to this question in the portal. For the purpose of this report, “1” means “unknown”."