Troopy vs. Land rover defender 110 tdi?

[robmobile73]

Currently I have a BJ73 and sometime in the next year I'm going to move on to something else. The BJ73 is a little to slow and noisy for long road trips and I want a vehicle that is longer wheelbase that I can actually sleep in the back when truck camping.

The smart, practical, money minded part of me says get a 1st gen sequoia and build it how you want...........Another part of me that likes having a collector vehicle and meeting people just because of your truck is considering getting a defender 110. I can fly space A to England pretty much for free and they seem to be selling for 8-15K in decent shape for a late 90's model. In the US they seem to be north of 20K.

A 1hz (or hdt??) troopy would be similar, but more expensive. Anyone here own a land rover and a 70 series and have an opinion on the 2 in comparison?

 

[flx]

Sooo, this topic has a huge potential (and temptation) for trolling but I'll try to keep my answer to factual facts

Form-factor:
The Troopy is longer than the Def110, it means slightly more length available inside, so longer bed or being able to have a little walking space available even when bed is made. And a little more storage space but I don't believe it's a worthy difference.
Longer also means longer wheelbase so worst turning radius, more difficult to park in cities, etc.

The Troopy has a high roof (125cm of internal height), the Def110 has a higher roof (~110cm I think) than almost all SUVs but not as much as the Troopy. This means that in both you can create a seating space in the back where you can be confortable to spend time and that (almost) no other SUVs will offer you. This for me is the real unique selling point of those 2 vehicles to build traveling/living vehicles. That being said the extra cm of the Troopy make a huge difference here, considering you want to let 85-90cm of head room to sit comfortably upright it means that your bench is at 25cm on a Def while you can push to 40cm on a Troopy (depends of how tall you are obviously) which means more storing space (and more usable for big items) under the bench and a better knee angle when seated.
That being said, if you plan a roof conversion the original roof height doesn't matter. Also if you plan a setup with no seated living space or to live on your roof (RTT...) the high roof isn't a big advantage anymore and means more difficult access to the roof and higher gravity center.
Troopy even without a roofrack is also just slightly taller than most parkings, height limit bars, etc. In Europe for a few cm it goes in the second category on toll roads, etc.

Troopy and Def110 are available in 3 doors van with flat rear. But only the Def110 is available is available in 5 doors.
5 doors is obviously a big advantage if you want to use the vehicle for some regular day to day usage but even for a traveling setup it's an advantage. 5-doors means a lot easier access to the storage (= better use of space) and also a non flat floor. Non flat floor can appears as a disadvantage to load cargo but if you are to build a setup I don't think it is, and the rear footwell allows some extra storage space, also allows to fit taller items (like a fridge) that would be higher that the bench setup otherwise.
A 5-doors Def110 could compare to a 76 but is clearly longer and with a higher roof, so actually allows setup that you can't really make in the 76..


Mechanically:
From the 90's and diesel variants, Toyota 70series heavy duty will have a big NA diesel while LR Defenders have a smaller turbo diesel (similar to light duty 70series), both producing a similar total power.

HD 70 series have a part time 4wd and leaf springs all around (before 99) while Def have an AWD transmission and coil springs.
So more rugged versus more modern / comfortable.

I would highly recommend this series of videos on the technical differences between world spec Defender and 70series:

 

[Felde]

A good buddy of mine had a defender 110.
I don't think it is a lot quieter ride compared to a BJ. Onroad comfort is better as it has coil springs, though, and it is more modern, with safety features like ABS and airbags. But actually it is an old design, still. I don't go down the rabbit hole of discussing durability or British engineering.
A defender requires a lot of maintenance (compared to other vehicles of same age). So poor maintenance is an issue often seen.
And so is corrosion: Electrolytic corrosion alu-iron and simply rust (frame, windshield, rear frame member).
LC and Defender share some design features and respective issues, e.g. leaking axle seals, knuckles and corroded knuckle chrome balls.
Stock seating in a defender is poor. Space is very cramped, so even installing better seats doesn't improve this a lot. A defender is not for tall people.

The Defender is an icon. Parts availability is good and prices go up. Put it's not that iconic like a Landcruiser.
Cheers Ralf

 

[sodafeld1]

I met a pro engine builder recently with over 6000 rebuilds under his belt. He has great respect for toyota, Japanese pride in engineering. He prefers the 1hz over the hd, he feels he can do more power upgrades with it. He also said he has to rebuild a crazy amount of defender engines, too many.

I have a troopy, love it, camp in it most weeks. I especially love it's pragmatic design and I am able to do most mechanical work on it. 11 seater, sleeps up to 3 inside or lift the seats and carry bricks, lumber, water tanks etc. and can go any where.

 

[sodafeld1]

Think we are going to be a little bias on this forum Would also hate to try to repair cracked or folded weathered aluminium.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

No particular bias (I’ve owned 4 Land Rovers including a 95 Defender 90 SW) and throughly enjoyed everyone of them ….
Granted none of mine were diesels so my comments may not apply to your plans.
*The V8 is way underpowered for something as heavy as the Defender and will not pass a gas station.
*The Defender ate clutch master cylinders like a daily snack.
*Parts were very expensive and not readily available. (NAPA had none).
*Both the heater and a/c were woefully inadequate.
*If you drove it in rain your feet would get wet (The dealership could never figure out where the water was coming from).
* They are very prone to rust around the lower windshield as well as the rear crossmember.
*The windows are positioned fairly low and you‘ll find yourself bending forward to look out of them.
*You will never be able to quietly close a door again.

 

[FJBen]

I’ve got an acquaintance in town who imported a 110 I want to say he paid low 20s.

Looked pretty dang clean but….

He’s currently almost done swapping the frame. I know he’s re done quite a lot, maintenance, turbo upgrade, tub repair and a bit of these would be the same (maintenance /rust)
Now it’s possible he bought from a less than honest dealer, but personally I wouldn’t own a rover given the reliability issues, aluminum/steel issues and I tend to shy away from Lucas the Lord of darkness. If I needed more room, I would go for an LJ before dipping into the rover world…even with head issues.

People have bought nightmare South American cruisers, anything abused/not taken care of can have major issues and costs.




Inwill say the rovers look cool. The 110 4 door looked cramped to me in terms of legroom.



A sequoia is the smart choice lol. Cheap, cheap parts, run forever, tons of room and decent power. @theglobb P4L and his friends stopped by on their cross country trip and they had a sequoia and I believe the general consensus was it’s a cheap beast that performed quite well.

I mean, they are boring and you definitely don’t have the cool factor of an old rig at all. But cheap, reliable, comfy, 75” sleeping room in the back, easy 80mph in comfort and a/c. As long as you aren’t wheeling the snot out of it.

I’ve got a 2006 tundra 4 door, (basically same thing as sequoia without 3rd row or covered rear. Fantastic truck. I thought about building it up before I got my cruiser again.


In the end it’s about getting out and enjoying the outdoors ( well some people just love the build) but a sequoia would be a really cheap good way to do it.

 

[FJ73Texas]

This was spotted in Houston by my brother a few weeks back.. Said he spoke to the guy who is British himself looking to start importing these. $64K....not cheap at all.

 

[robmobile73]

I’ve got an acquaintance in town who imported a 110 I want to say he paid low 20s.

Looked pretty dang clean but….

He’s currently almost done swapping the frame. I know he’s re done quite a lot, maintenance, turbo upgrade, tub repair and a bit of these would be the same (maintenance /rust)
Now it’s possible he bought from a less than honest dealer, but personally I wouldn’t own a rover given the reliability issues, aluminum/steel issues and I tend to shy away from Lucas the Lord of darkness. If I needed more room, I would go for an LJ before dipping into the rover world…even with head issues.

People have bought nightmare South American cruisers, anything abused/not taken care of can have major issues and costs.




Inwill say the rovers look cool. The 110 4 door looked cramped to me in terms of legroom.



A sequoia is the smart choice lol. Cheap, cheap parts, run forever, tons of room and decent power. @theglobb P4L and his friends stopped by on their cross country trip and they had a sequoia and I believe the general consensus was it’s a cheap beast that performed quite well.

I mean, they are boring and you definitely don’t have the cool factor of an old rig at all. But cheap, reliable, comfy, 75” sleeping room in the back, easy 80mph in comfort and a/c. As long as you aren’t wheeling the snot out of it.

I’ve got a 2006 tundra 4 door, (basically same thing as sequoia without 3rd row or covered rear. Fantastic truck. I thought about building it up before I got my cruiser again.


In the end it’s about getting out and enjoying the outdoors ( well some people just love the build) but a sequoia would be a really cheap good way to do it.

This seems to be the decision: Sequoia for what I want to do with the truck or compromise that a bit to continue owning a collector car. I have an 03 Tundra that's been in the family since 05'. It is not as simple as the 89 bj73, but it is so incredibly reliable. Sequoia is the same drivetrain chassis etc.

 

[robmobile73]

This was spotted in Houston by my brother a few weeks back.. Said he spoke to the guy who is British himself looking to start importing these. $64K....not cheap at all.

View attachment 3265714 View attachment 3265715

That is part of the lure of a Land Rover. Take a look at what is available on Ebay.uk. Over there it is a fairly normal vehicle and you don't pay the premium you do here. Fairly sure I can go over personally inspect/drive and buy a nice 98 or 99' and ship it back for less than $20k all in. They seem to sell for much more here. Troopy's, 80 series and even Prado's seem more expensive in Japan than Land Rovers do in the UK.

 

[robmobile73]

Think we are going to be a little bias on this forum Would also hate to try to repair cracked or folded weathered aluminium.

I recently de-riveted and welded a 45 year old aluminum boat without fear. I have no problem with welding frames as well.........Rust on sheet metal and having to make it look pretty because it's on the outside showing is very, very difficult for me to make look nice. I'm just nor really good at it. (I can't mud sheetrock very well either). Fast and strong I can do.

 

[joekatana]

That is part of the lure of a Land Rover. Take a look at what is available on Ebay.uk. Over there it is a fairly normal vehicle and you don't pay the premium you do here. Fairly sure I can go over personally inspect/drive and buy a nice 98 or 99' and ship it back for less than $20k all in. They seem to sell for much more here. Troopy's, 80 series and even Prado's seem more expensive in Japan than Land Rovers do in the UK.

Why do you even want to bother with a rhd ? If you decide a Land Rover might be for you which I doubt having read your posts on the BJ73 and having owned and flipped several landy’s myself I suggest looking in Italy or Spain for a lhd without rust . Even better look in to the later Santana models for more bang for your buck .

 

[ATL Cruiser]

Some overall thoughts for you. I'm not a Land Cruiser NOR a Rover expert, but I do run a shop working on 50+ vehicles a day.

Toyota customers expect to spend $300 every visit.
Land Rover customers expect to spend $4,000 every visit (yes, seriously)

We actually stopped working on Land Rovers a few years ago. Yes, they did make us loads of money, but it was impossible to keep the customers happy. You would do an oil change on one, and it would leave with deflated airbags and a blown head gasket with coolant blasting out the tailpipe. Yes, that actually happened several times. Of course, I am referring to newer Land Rovers, not old. But their quality was absurdly horrible.

Regarding pricing, I don't doubt that price of $64,500 that @FJ73Texas posted above. That is insanity. All of my rich buddies want "a sweet old, classic Defender." None of them want a "sweet old, classic Land Cruiser diesel." I'm not sure why that is, but I guarantee you that is what is driving the prices. They want Defenders, not Land Cruisers. Probably because all their other rich buddies pull up in 2023 Defenders at the country club.

 

[robmobile73]

Why do you even want to bother with a rhd ? If you decide a Land Rover might be for you which I doubt having read your posts on the BJ73 and having owned and flipped several landy’s myself I suggest looking in Italy or Spain for a lhd without rust . Even better look in to the later Santana models for more bang for your buck .

LHD would be easier for the drive through thats for sure, but I've had plenty of experience driving LHD in Japan where you drive on the left and not the right. Once you switch sides for awhile it is relatively easy to switch back and forth..At least it's fairly easy for me, but sometimes the hands confuse wipers for turn signals.

My BJ73 is from Spain. Based on the way it was maintained and repaired by previous owners over there I am leary of getting a vehicle from Spain and Southern Europe in general..........However since we're talking about a late 90's not a late 80's vehicle it might not be that bad. Vehicles from England would certainly have more rust.

Spent some time riding in land rovers in Malaysia and was impressed with the way they rode in comparison to the leaf spring Hiluxs. We had a 110 in Afghanistan that I liked a bit as well albeit it was dead due to I believe a fuel solonoid for most of the trip(I wasn't the mechanic, but now I'd know how to fix it due to experience with the bj73).

 

[FJBen]

here is my friends rover, not sure what he could sell it for now. For a 96 it is definitely more tractor like than my 88. I do admit they look cool.

@robmobile73 i forgot he had to add a ROAMERDRIVE overdrive unit to make it bearable on the highway. $2500. Others have used different rover tcase gears with mixed results to get Revs/noise down.

A lot of 30yr old rigs need things to help with modern days. I know you are going through a lot to get your bj73 to modern speeds reliably, I’m not sure the same years on a rover get you anything ahead rather than space, and possibly further back in a lot of areas

 

[robmobile73]

Some overall thoughts for you. I'm not a Land Cruiser NOR a Rover expert, but I do run a shop working on 50+ vehicles a day.

Toyota customers expect to spend $300 every visit.
Land Rover customers expect to spend $4,000 every visit (yes, seriously)

We actually stopped working on Land Rovers a few years ago. Yes, they did make us loads of money, but it was impossible to keep the customers happy. You would do an oil change on one, and it would leave with deflated airbags and a blown head gasket with coolant blasting out the tailpipe. Yes, that actually happened several times. Of course, I am referring to newer Land Rovers, not old. But their quality was absurdly horrible.

Regarding pricing, I don't doubt that price of $64,500 that @FJ73Texas posted above. That is insanity. All of my rich buddies want "a sweet old, classic Defender." None of them want a "sweet old, classic Land Cruiser diesel." I'm not sure why that is, but I guarantee you that is what is driving the prices. They want Defenders, not Land Cruisers. Probably because all their other rich buddies pull up in 2023 Defenders at the country club.

It's wierd man. I'm not trying to fit in or be like anyone..never really have. Usually I'm "marching to the beat of my own drum", but normally in the right direction. I actually have thought about the problem of people assuming "I'm some snobby rich guy" if I got a Land Rover.

I do and prefer to do almost all my own work. I prefer a simpler vehicle to something modern. I I know "an old rich guy" with a disco and that thing is always having a problem and he's always spending a little money on it(not the big bucks like you mention), but that things a gas v8 with all the sensors and pollution junk and a automatic transmission. He is old and at the point in his life where his time is more valuable than the money he would pay the shop and he no longer wants to turn wrenches. His experience reminds me of people back in the early 80's that were driving old 70's American cars that were always acting up. I'm thinking the 300tdi engine and a defender wouldn't be that bad. Limited electronics in the body and a mechanical diesel engine.

On prices in the past 5 years LC prices have shot up incredibly here to the point that the exporters in JP have caught on and prices in JP are not that much less than in the US. It looks different for Land Rovers. They look cheap in England and expensive here in the US. Not trying to get into the import export business, but I think I could get my money back out of the vehicle if I decided it wasn't for me.

 

[FJ73Texas]

Regarding pricing, I don't doubt that price of $64,500 that @FJ73Texas posted above.

I don't either given the part of Houston where he spotted it and just that it was in Houston overall.

I have only seen one British RHD spec Land Rover Defender in San Antonio and it was in one of the wealthiest areas of San Antonio where I spotted it.

 

[robmobile73]

here is my friends rover, not sure what he could sell it for now. For a 96 it is definitely more tractor like than my 88. I do admit they look cool.

@robmobile73 i forgot he had to add a ROAMERDRIVE overdrive unit to make it bearable on the highway. $2500. Others have used different rover tcase gears with mixed results to get Revs/noise down.

A lot of 30yr old rigs need things to help with modern days. I know you are going through a lot to get your bj73 to modern speeds reliably, I’m not sure the same years on a rover get you anything ahead rather than space, and possibly further back in a lot of areas

View attachment 3266394

That's really pretty rig. I'm quite a ways to pulling the trigger on anything. I'm in the information collecting/idea plan formation stage now.........I have decided I don't want to go further building/trying new ideas on my BJ73. I will maintain it and spruce it up a bit for sale this summer. After it goes will be time to look for a replacement.

 

[joekatana]

It's wierd man. I'm not trying to fit in or be like anyone..never really have. Usually I'm "marching to the beat of my own drum", but normally in the right direction. I actually have thought about the problem of people assuming "I'm some snobby rich guy" if I got a Land Rover.

I do and prefer to do almost all my own work. I prefer a simpler vehicle to something modern. I I know "an old rich guy" with a disco and that thing is always having a problem and he's always spending a little money on it(not the big bucks like you mention), but that things a gas v8 with all the sensors and pollution junk and a automatic transmission. He is old and at the point in his life where his time is more valuable than the money he would pay the shop and he no longer wants to turn wrenches. His experience reminds me of people back in the early 80's that were driving old 70's American cars that were always acting up. I'm thinking the 300tdi engine and a defender wouldn't be that bad. Limited electronics in the body and a mechanical diesel engine.

On prices in the past 5 years LC prices have shot up incredibly here to the point that the exporters in JP have caught on and prices in JP are not that much less than in the US. It looks different for Land Rovers. They look cheap in England and expensive here in the US. Not trying to get into the import export business, but I think I could get my money back out of the vehicle if I decided it wasn't for me.

It’s not that it’s difficult to drive a rhd vehicle in a lhd country , to me it is just a nuisance and there is literally no added value .

Just fyi the maintenance in rural England is right on par with the South Europeans but do add a lot of rusted trough frame repairs as most of these land rovers have been covered underneath with a thin wet mud layer from the farm for most of their life .

 

[robmobile73]

I want to thank all of you for your information and knowledge filled replies. I think I know the answer now. I have a 03 tundra 2wd that belonged to my dad that I already put a rear locker in. It has sentimental value. Perhaps I should buy a FJ cruiser t case with manual shifters and a 4wd tranny. front diff/half shafts and spindles and make it the reliable 4wd for probably $1500+-(manual aftermarket switch/light harness for front diff actuater). Grind cut weld repair treat and rough fill the BJ73 rust spots and pay someone good to make them smooth before repainting which I can do. (I wish the guys in Spain had not put cheap talc based bondo over untreated rust). Put it up for sale when it's ready. In the meantime I need to find a defender to ride in again to make sure its something I want to have. I'll make a trip to buy a defender if I still want one.