TRD Forged Wheels as a Performance Upgrade (1 Viewer)

[Heritage 2020]

Greetings All,

I enjoy learning from the LC community and notice that upgrading our vehicles is a passion.

As a mechanical engineer and an avid motorsports/cycling/motorcycle enthusiast—anything I can do to lower rotating mass without compromising strength is a priority focus. Trust me, you feel it when pedaling a bicycle or riding a motorcycle due to relativity low horsepower and less sprung weight (rider and platform).

Adding weight to sprung (vehicle chassis mass above the suspension) is inevitable as we add armor, accessories, and stuff.

My HE came with TRD forged BBS wheels, but my other performance vehicles also receive lighter forged wheels if I’m going for overall performance before doing anything else.

Bottom line: Through wheels one can achieve lighter weight without sacrificing strength. Of course my LC is a tub of “functional lard”, but most of it is sprung weight. Of course I give some of the performance advantage back due to tire selection.

Unsprung weight includes the following (copied from various online public domain sources):

• Tires
• Wheels
• Control arms and assemblies.
• Wheel bearings and hubs (the parts the wheels rotate on)
• Brake assemblies (on most cars)
• On vehicles with a solid drive axle, sometimes called a live axle, the axle assembly (including the differential) moves with the rear wheels and is therefore unsprung.

Of course on my LC, I added rotational mass by going to LT 285/65-18 BFG K02 vs P-metric or lighter tires. The heavier tires are functional to me, but the lighter wheel certainly helps offset tire weight gain. I’d rather have heavier LT tires and a lighter stronger wheel—but that is just my preference.

We all know that “real” forged wheels are stronger and weigh less, but I wanted to share this for those who might consider upgrading to lighter wheels—without compromising overall strength.

NOTE: I believe the forged BBS wheels weigh 27lbs each and don’t know how much cast alloy wheels weigh. I am not saying that the BBS Forged Wheels are the only option, but one option for upgrade consideration. The TRD Heritage BBS wheels aren’t cheap—nor are any true forged vs. “flow forged wheels”

Have a good day all and thanks to all for the shared knowledge!

All About Wheels - https://www.toyota.com/racing/trd/news/2020/all-about-wheels#:~:text=The%20end%20result%20is%20a,and%20precisely%20manufactured%20in%20Japan

 

[bloc]

Good stuff. As for your question on stock weight, I’ve done a bit of wheel weight research over the years.

Stock US market 18” cast aluminum wheels are typically close to 31 pounds.

Someone else would need to speak up for LX 20” weights, but I bet they have a lot to gain here by moving to the BBS forged wheels.

The 5-lug Toyota steel wheels so many love the look of are 40 pounds, IIRC.

Lastly, 5-lug TRD forged Rock Warriors take the cake here at around 24 pounds. They are truly impressive wheels.

 

[Heritage 2020]

Good stuff. As for your question on stock weight, I’ve done a bit of wheel weight research over the years.

Stock US market 18” cast aluminum wheels are typically close to 31 pounds.

Someone else would need to speak up for LX 20” weights, but I bet they have a lot to gain here by moving to the BBS forged wheels.

The 5-lug Toyota steel wheels so many love the look of are 40 pounds, IIRC.

Lastly, 5-lug TRD forged Rock Warriors take the cake here at around 24 pounds. They are truly impressive wheels.

24lb Rock Warriors wow! Had no idea they were that light—and a true forged wheel (densely pressure forged vs flow forged).

40lbs for a steel wheel is about right, but my guess is the steel wheel crowd isn’t too concerned about unsprung mass.

It would be interesting to note how much the most popular aftermarket “upgrade” cast aluminum wheels weigh.

Given the intricate (heavy) designs of some aftermarket cast wheels—I’d guess a lot more than some imagine to achieve sufficient overall strength due to less dense parent material, while not likely as strong as a Toyota OEM cast wheel.

I’d bet that some aftermarket cast wheels weigh as much as steelies to compensate for the lower strength of cast aluminum.

My motivation for sharing was my observation that some obsess over tire weight without considering the weight of the entire tire/wheel setup. Give me the heavier/more durable tire on an optimized wheel—any time vs. the lighter tire on a heavy wheel.

NOTE: As you know, flow forged (marketing hype) is not true forging.

 

[Yossarian]

This has been covered here before, but like most things on mud, buried in older threads.

The TRD Rock Warrior rims were available early on as an add-on option on the LC's, but came stock on the TRD Tundra's. It was a hot upgrade for those in the know, and could be had cheap 2nd hand. I got my 1st set of 4 for $500 off craigslist, and have 2 spares as they are very difficult to find now.

Also to your point about rotating mass, I'm within 2 lbs. of the stock wheels with the RW's and BFG K02 LT C's. If we ditch the ridiculous beauty ring, we'd be under stock.

 

[Boston Mangler]

Greetings All,

I enjoy learning from the LC community and notice that upgrading our vehicles is a passion.

As a mechanical engineer and an avid motorsports/cycling/motorcycle enthusiast—anything I can do to lower rotating mass without compromising strength is a priority focus. Trust me, you feel it when pedaling a bicycle or riding a motorcycle due to relativity low horsepower and less sprung weight (rider and platform).

Adding weight to sprung (vehicle chassis mass above the suspension) is inevitable as we add armor, accessories, and stuff.

My HE came with TRD forged BBS wheels, but my other performance vehicles also receive lighter forged wheels if I’m going for overall performance before doing anything else.

Bottom line: Through wheels one can achieve lighter weight without sacrificing strength. Of course my LC is a tub of “functional lard”, but most of it is sprung weight. Of course I give some of the performance advantage back due to tire selection.

Unsprung weight includes the following (copied from various online public domain sources):

• Tires
• Wheels
• Control arms and assemblies.
• Wheel bearings and hubs (the parts the wheels rotate on)
• Brake assemblies (on most cars)
• On vehicles with a solid drive axle, sometimes called a live axle, the axle assembly (including the differential) moves with the rear wheels and is therefore unsprung.

Of course on my LC, I added rotational mass by going to LT 285/65-18 BFG K02 vs P-metric or lighter tires. The heavier tires are functional to me, but the lighter wheel certainly helps offset tire weight gain. I’d rather have heavier LT tires and a lighter stronger wheel—but that is just my preference.

We all know that “real” forged wheels are stronger and weigh less, but I wanted to share this for those who might consider upgrading to lighter wheels—without compromising overall strength.

NOTE: I believe the forged BBS wheels weigh 27lbs each and don’t know how much cast alloy wheels weigh. I am not saying that the BBS Forged Wheels are the only option, but one option for upgrade consideration. The TRD Heritage BBS wheels aren’t cheap—nor are any true forged vs. “flow forged wheels”

Have a good day all and thanks to all for the shared knowledge!

All About Wheels - https://www.toyota.com/racing/trd/news/2020/all-about-wheels#:~:text=The%20end%20result%20is%20a,and%20precisely%20manufactured%20in%20Japan

Excellent post Sir

The exact reasons I just picked up a set of the BBS forged wheels. Not aesthetically my fav, but I’m willing to overlook all that for reasons you mention above.

 

[HiFiGuy]

24lb Rock Warriors wow! Had no idea they were that light—and a true forged wheel (densely pressure forged vs flow forged).

40lbs for a steel wheel is about right, but my guess is the steel wheel crowd isn’t too concerned about unsprung mass.

It would be interesting to note how much the most popular aftermarket “upgrade” cast aluminum wheels weigh.

Given the intricate (heavy) designs of some aftermarket cast wheels—I’d guess a lot more than some imagine to achieve sufficient overall strength due to less dense parent material, while not likely as strong as a Toyota OEM cast wheel.

I’d bet that some aftermarket cast wheels weigh as much as steelies to compensate for the lower strength of cast aluminum.

My motivation for sharing was my observation that some obsess over tire weight without considering the weight of the entire tire/wheel setup. Give me the heavier/more durable tire on an optimized wheel—any time vs. the lighter tire on a heavy wheel.

NOTE: As you know, flow forged (marketing hype) is not true forging.

I'm with you on most of that, and 100% in on strong/light forged wheels, but keep in mind the physics of a larger diameter tire, and even same diameter, with lots of mass at the perimeter. Much worse than the same amount of mass near the center, of course. If you need the fatties, it is what it is. Lower unsprung mass is always welcome, but lower rotational mass is key for acceleration, braking, direction change improvements.

 

[skrypj]

My method MR705’s in a 17” +35mm were only 25.4 lbs. My Rock warrior with some wheel weights was 23.8

However, some of the other methods and I believe some of the ICON wheels I was looking at were closer to 30 lbs.

There are some great LT C range tires available now that are pretty light, but probably not on an 18" wheel, which was a major driver for me to get a 17" wheel. I put a set of 315/70R17 Territory MT's on the methods and my total wheel/tire weight balanced and TPMS installed was 79 lbs. 6 lbs lighter than the stock 285/50R21 tire and wheel. So far, the truck drives fantastic like this and I am not sure I am going to regear or not. I am going to tow my trailer next week and see how it feels, then make my decision.

 

[TeCKis300]

Since I have it handy to scale, these Tundra 18x8 +60 OEM wheels are 30.5lbs.

I strongly believe any of OEM wheels are going to be stronger than most aftermarket stuff that are commodity these days.

There's an inordinate amount of attention to unsprung weight on these forums. IMO, for a truck, it's not the major factor people are placing in it. Things like overall diameter and tire parameters play much more into performance, MPG, and ride quality. That's unless it's Baja running pedal to the metal type driving, more akin to a sports car, where unsprung mass and rotational inertia plays a much larger role in acceleration and traction.

Sorry for the ugly wheel, putting my minions to work taking off Plastidip from the previous owners. Hoping to refinish in a satin black like this.

 

[skrypj]

Since I have it handy to scale, these Tundra 18x8 +60 OEM wheels are 30.5lbs.

I strongly believe any of OEM wheels are going to be stronger than most aftermarket stuff that are commodity these days.

There's an inordinate amount of attention to unsprung weight on these forums. IMO, for a truck, it's not the major factor people are placing in it. Things like overall diameter and tire parameters play much more into performance, MPG, and ride quality. That's unless it's Baja running pedal to the metal type driving, more akin to a sports car, where unsprung mass and rotational inertia plays a much larger role in acceleration and traction.

View attachment 3645902

Sorry for the ugly wheel, putting my minions to work taking off Plastidip from the previous owners. Hoping to refinish in a satin black like this.
View attachment 3645916
View attachment 3645914

I agree tire weight def plays a bigger roll, especially on trucks with big offroady tires. But also I bet wheel diameter might to some degree. A good chunk on the wheel mass is going to be the “drum” of the wheel so pulling that in closer probably helps with acceleration but maybe not unsprung mass

Yes, you have more tire sidewall for the same diameter, but I doubt that weighs as much as 8”+ wide cylinder of aluminum.

 

[TeCKis300]

I agree tire weight def plays a bigger roll, especially on trucks with big offroady tires. But also I bet wheel diameter might to some degree. A good chunk on the wheel mass is going to be the “drum” of the wheel so pulling that in closer probably helps with acceleration but maybe not unsprung mass

Yes, you have more tire sidewall for the same diameter, but I doubt that weighs as much as 8”+ wide cylinder of aluminum.

True, which is why as I go up to 37s, I will go down to 18" wheels for that set.

I'll keep a set of 35s on 20s for street (and heavy towing) use.

 

[Boston Mangler]

Since I have it handy to scale, these Tundra 18x8 +60 OEM wheels are 30.5lbs.

I strongly believe any of OEM wheels are going to be stronger than most aftermarket stuff that are commodity these days.

Ya got me curious and motivated. Put one of the BBS wheels I just got on scale. 27.7 with no center cap or TPMS. Difference of 3.3lbs over stock.

Will I notice weight difference in driving and handling after putting 33s on them? Absolutely not. It MIGHT end up being an even wash with bigger tires and lighter wheels.

Personally, I am trying to save every ounce I can to cut down on wear and tear of related components, steering rack, brake pads, etc…

I had Steelies on my tundra and the weight was VERY noticeable and the eating of suspension and brake components was also noticeable.

Maybe I’m a bit over the top trying to cut weight with everything on the 200, but the issues I ran Into with all the weight on the Tundra taught me some valuable (expensive) lessons.

Agree 1000% on OEM wheels being superior in almost all scenarios.

I PERSONALLY know 4 different people that have cracked Methods (2 of them were HDs) doing just basic Offroad stuff, no crazy Baja stuff.

Google “cracked method wheels” and you’ll see how common it is. Nutso.

For each is own, but OEM at all costs for this guy

 

[LX4x4]

This is the only forum I've been that down plays the significance of dropping weight from the wheels and tires, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I personally dropped 9 lbs each corner (Stock 21" are 44 lbs each, so losing weight was not hard) and noticed a difference. 36 lb of rotating mass.

 

[skrypj]

This is the only forum I've been that down plays the significance of dropping weight from the wheels and tires, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I personally dropped 9 lbs each corner (Stock 21" are 44 lbs each, so losing weight was not hard) and noticed a difference. 36 lb of rotating mass.

I really don’t think anyone said it wasn’t important. However, if we are comparing one 18” wheel that is 30 lbs and another that’s 27 lbs, that is not going to make a huge difference. 3 lbs on a wheel and tire assembly that is 80, 90, or 100 lbs isn’t a lot, and it’s also the portion of the mass closest to the center of rotation.

If you could save 10 lbs on the tire, whose entire mass is pretty much outside of the radius of the wheel, you would see a much larger difference.

 

[Boston Mangler]

This is the only forum I've been that down plays the significance of dropping weight from the wheels and tires, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I personally dropped 9 lbs each corner (Stock 21" are 44 lbs each, so losing weight was not hard) and noticed a difference. 36 lb of rotating mass.

Its a rabbit hole of opinions of the whys and its kinda a case by case.

Simply put, the lightest wheel and tire combo you can get is going to cause less wear and tear on components OFFroad. ON road.. meh, probably negligible…

I’ve done 3 Alaska/Canada trips that saw 1000s of miles of fire roads, and I’m not driving slow on them. It beat the living hell out of my tundra with the Steelies and 35s.

I plan similar trips in my 200 so going with every precaution I can.

If my 200 saw 99% street with an occasional trail here and there, I wouldn’t care less about a few extras pounds on my wheels.

Its a case by case basis based on how your rig is used.

Maybe that @cruiseroutfit fella will chime in with his opinion and why he’s running RW wheels on Monica.

I’ll bet tacos it has to do with weight and wear and tear

Does everyone drive their trucks like Monica? No…

Case by case

 

[bloc]

Ya got me curious and motivated. Put one of the BBS wheels I just got on scale. 27.7 with no center cap or TPMS. Difference of 3.3lbs over stock.

Will I notice weight difference in driving and handling after putting 33s on them? Absolutely not. It MIGHT end up being an even wash with bigger tires and lighter wheels.

Personally, I am trying to save every ounce I can to cut down on wear and tear of related components, steering rack, brake pads, etc…

I had Steelies on my tundra and the weight was VERY noticeable and the eating of suspension and brake components was also noticeable.

Maybe I’m a bit over the top trying to cut weight with everything on the 200, but the issues I ran Into with all the weight on the Tundra taught me some valuable (expensive) lessons.

Agree 1000% on OEM wheels being superior in almost all scenarios.

I PERSONALLY know 4 different people that have cracked Methods (2 of them were HDs) doing just basic Offroad stuff, no crazy Baja stuff.

Google “cracked method wheels” and you’ll see how common it is. Nutso.

For each is own, but OEM at all costs for this guy


View attachment 3646179

Semi-OEM but Rock Warriors are known to crack as well.

 

[tacoduck]

are there aftermarket forged rims made by bbs for the 200 series? I’m also curious if there are Reproduction bbs forged heritage rims for sale. Last o looked, bronze heritage rims are selling for 800 a rim.

 

[Heckraiser]

Your focus is on un-sprung weight, but also important to think about (if you're a nerd) is rotational mass. A smaller diameter wheel will be easier to turn or stop (acceleration and braking) all things being equal. With a smaller wheel, the weight of the rim and drum of the wheel (the heaviest part of a wheel) is moved inboard towards the hub, making it easier to turn.

It's logical that a 17" wheel would be lighter than an 18" wheel, but what many don't think about is that most 17" tires actually lighter than 18" tires or the same diameter. Most AT tires available in 18" are heavy E-rated tires with higher load ratings designed for 1-ton pickups and the like. Despite the shorter sidewall and identical overall diameter, the construction of a 18" tire ends up making it heavier than a comparable 17" tire. Plus you can get a variety of tires in a C or D rating for a 17" wheel, while there's next to nothing in a C or D available in 18".

My methods are only 25lbs, but I'm sure nowhere near the quality of rock warriors (of which I also owned a set). Do you guys know if that 24-pound rock warrior weight includes the rock rings? Because they're ugly anyway! Ditch them for "more lighter"

 

[skrypj]

Your focus is on un-sprung weight, but also important to think about (if you're a nerd) is rotational mass. A smaller diameter wheel will be easier to turn or stop (acceleration and braking) all things being equal. With a smaller wheel, the weight of the rim and drum of the wheel (the heaviest part of a wheel) is moved inboard towards the hub, making it easier to turn.

It's logical that a 17" wheel would be lighter than an 18" wheel, but what many don't think about is that most 17" tires actually lighter than 18" tires or the same diameter. Most AT tires available in 18" are heavy E-rated tires with higher load ratings designed for 1-ton pickups and the like. Despite the shorter sidewall and identical overall diameter, the construction of a 18" tire ends up making it heavier than a comparable 17" tire. Plus you can get a variety of tires in a C or D rating for a 17" wheel, while there's next to nothing in a C or D available in 18".

My methods are only 25lbs, but I'm sure nowhere near the quality of rock warriors (of which I also owned a set). Do you guys know if that 24-pound rock warrior weight includes the rock rings? Because they're ugly anyway! Ditch them for "more lighter"

I’ve actually seen the tire thing is true even with regular passenger car tires. I was looking at tires for my Chevy bolt and the 16” wheel tires were actually lighter than the 17”. I think the shorter sidewall means they have to construct the 17” tire to be able to absorb the hits and potholes with less sidewall to help absorb it.