Toyo AT III vs BFG K02 (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

thanks. Good info. I am looking for a more aggressive looking tire. If I understand what you are saying, options 2 and 3 have more pronounced side wall treads? So the trade off Is the ride quality and off road durability and fuel economy. Option 1 would provide up to 3mpg better economy?

Yes, the LT variant will be more aggressive, with generally P < LT < Floatation for most tires.. If aggressive looks is your priority, I would even say that KO2s or Falken AT3Ws might be the better options. The AT3Ws in particular, I really enjoyed as it has some of the more modern qualities of the Toyo, paired with more aggressive treads, lugs, and dimensions. I have the Toyo AT III flotation variants which are more aggressive again than LTs, and can't say I wasn't a bit disappointed as the LT AT3Ws I had just prior were a more aggressive tire with deeper treads, meaty side lugs, sidewall, rim protector, etc. Sure the Falken's generally weigh more, but also gave more.

For economy, I would agree that the P variant will be best for efficiency as the taller lugs of the LT will increase rolling resistance. I'm not sure it would be 3 MPG differentiation between P and LT however as that's a lot of difference. But it may indeed 2-3mpg loss from stock tires between AT tires, gearing, aero, etc. Weight also is not what people make it out to be as it's only lightly correlated to efficiency.

 

[amunsey]

After way too much time researching and looking at pictures on the forums, I pulled the trigger on a set of Toyo Open Country ATIII tires. I went with the LT in the 285/55/20 size on stock wheels.

I had been set on the BFG KO2s since before I bought my LX (love the sidewall design), but after speaking with a number of tire shops and reading through plenty of threads, I decided to give the Toyos a try. I am very happy with both the look and ride of them so far. They do have a bit more drone than the Michelin Latitudes they replaced, but the steering feel and road manners are superior.

I was a little worried that the Toyos would look meek compared to the BFGs, but the LT variant of the Toyos has big enough sidewall lugs that I am pleased with the turnout.

 

[NoClue]

I cannot comment on the K02s, but I'm extremely pleased with the AT3s in e rated load range. Within the past 8k miles of ownership, I've had them in mud, sand, rocks, and recently deep snow. They've really made the LC a tank.

I was also impressed with how low the roadforce was for each tire assembly with factory rims. I did not have one wheel & tire measure over 15lbs of road force, which is pretty incredible for an AT

 

[WesSiler]

I've been running Toyo ATIIIs (E) on the 200 series and K02s (D) on the Ranger this year (both currently replaced by winter rubber). Once spring rolls around, the Ranger is getting a fresh set of 34-inch ATIIIs (E), the Toyos are just better in every single circumstance. Most importantly, the ATIIIs deliver much more confidence on both wet pavement, and on packed snow, areas where the K02s really struggle. The Toyos are also quieter, and typically lighter in a given size/spec.

 

[luke27617]

Since I had K02 before want to give a quick update on Toyo Open Country AT3 based on 1st day experience. I got the SL version 275/65/18

- With 32.1" tire I was very surprised that got slight rubbing on driver side when reversing and in full lock. Rubbing is above mudflats (attaching a picture). Only have OEM spacers installed in front. Inner fender may have been changed as groves stick out more than lower flaps.
- Ride: comfort and handling is great. Very similar to K02 but so far tested only in dry conditions. I am expecting wet conditions to be better as K02s were just ok
- Looks: I think K02 looks better but Toyos not bad for SL version (attaching more pictures)
- Noise I would say is very similar to K02. This is a disappointment as expected much more quiet experience based on new tech and feedbacks I have read. This was a main decision point why Toyos. I have tested decibels with factory Dunlops and Toyos and noise went up by 5 in 20+ speeds. You can hear the hum in all speeds starting 20mph. I will try to reduce PSI as DT put it 4 PSI higher than recommended here on forum. Toyos comes with 45 days /500 miles test drive guarantee. Will see how next few days goes but may flip them for Falkens wildpeaks as in some reviews those were more quiet than Toyos.

BTW if you go with the tire, please note that the tire has two different sides. The more aggressive side has Toyo name more raised and as each side wall tooth has a "crack" line as you can see in the first picture.

I would like to hear feedback from anyone who had Falkens wildpeaks and now Toyos Open Country AT3.

 

[bloc]

Since I had K02 before want to give a quick update on Toyo Open Country AT3 based on 1st day experience. I got the SL version 275/65/18

- With 32.1" tire I was very surprised that got slight rubbing on driver side when reversing and in full lock. Rubbing is above mudflats (attaching a picture). Only have OEM spacers installed in front.
- Ride: comfort and handling is great. Very similar to K02 but so far tested only in dry conditions. I am expecting wet conditions to be better as K02s were just ok
- Looks: I think K02 looks better but Toyos not bad for SL version (attaching more pictures)
- Noise I would say is very similar to K02. This is a disappointment as expected much more quiet experience based on new tech and feedbacks I have read. This was a main decision point why Toyos. I have tested decibels with factory Dunlops and Toyos and noise went up by 5 in 20+ speeds. You can hear the hum in all speeds starting 20mph. I will try to reduce PSI as DT put it 4 PSI higher than recommended here on forum. Toyos comes with 45 days /500 miles test drive guarantee. Will see how next few days goes but may flip them for Falkens wildpeaks as in some reviews those were more quiet than Toyos.

I would like to hear feedback from anyone who had Falkens wildpeaks and now Toyos Open Country AT3.

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My p-metric AT2s got quieter as they broke in. Not sure if AT3s will be the same way.

 

[luke27617]

My p-metric AT2s got quieter as they broke in. Not sure if AT3s will be the same way.

Good feedback. Will give the full 500 mile test drive to see how things improve.

 

[bloc]

Good feedback. Will give the full 500 mile test drive to see how things improve.

Note that someone else on here had issues getting them to honor the test drive warranty. Might be worth some digging to see if there were any updates on that.

 

[MTExplorer]

Since I had K02 before want to give a quick update on Toyo Open Country AT3 based on 1st day experience. I got the SL version 275/65/18

- With 32.1" tire I was very surprised that got slight rubbing on driver side when reversing and in full lock. Rubbing is above mudflats (attaching a picture). Only have OEM spacers installed in front.
- Ride: comfort and handling is great. Very similar to K02 but so far tested only in dry conditions. I am expecting wet conditions to be better as K02s were just ok
- Looks: I think K02 looks better but Toyos not bad for SL version (attaching more pictures)
- Noise I would say is very similar to K02. This is a disappointment as expected much more quiet experience based on new tech and feedbacks I have read. This was a main decision point why Toyos. I have tested decibels with factory Dunlops and Toyos and noise went up by 5 in 20+ speeds. You can hear the hum in all speeds starting 20mph. I will try to reduce PSI as DT put it 4 PSI higher than recommended here on forum. Toyos comes with 45 days /500 miles test drive guarantee. Will see how next few days goes but may flip them for Falkens wildpeaks as in some reviews those were more quiet than Toyos.

I would like to hear feedback from anyone who had Falkens wildpeaks and now Toyos Open Country AT3.

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Paging @TeCKis300 ^

I know you’ve spoken to your Falken AT3Ws to Toyo ATIII transition in a number of threads. Don’t recall what you have said specifically about the noise differences though.

Adding to the question line between these two tires, now that you’ve had the Toyos for a bit, what would you pick at this point?

 

[TeCKis300]

Paging @TeCKis300 ^

I know you’ve spoken to your Falken AT3Ws to Toyo ATIII transition in a number of threads. Don’t recall what you have said specifically about the noise differences though.

Adding to the question line between these two tires, now that you’ve had the Toyos for a bit, what would you pick at this point?

It's been hard to make a judgement based on my impressions comparing a 33x12.5 to a 35x12.5 . They are both great on just about all surfaces and weather which is primary consideration for me. Both meet the threshold in my mind of having good enough NVH behavior, especially ride comfort on road, where I spend 95% of my time to warrant further consideration.

The difference is that the Falken are incrementally more aggressive, deepest treads and prominent side lugs, physically bigger in most sizes, possibly more performant off-road, in mild mud, and looser surfaces. The Toyo's a tad milder with less aggressive sidewall lugs, no rim protector, yet lighter in weight.

Noise comparisons highlighted below in an earlier post.

Copied from here - Help needed with A/T tire decision.. - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/help-needed-with-a-t-tire-decision.1095935/post-13626283

Good timing as I just went on an long weekend trip. It's taken awhile to gather a spectrum of impressions with this covid business. Caveat my comments against my previous Falken AT3Ws, with a big change from 33s to 35s, and part of it has been trying to differentiate what is related to tire size and what are actual qualities of the tire. Also understand that my impressions for the Toyo's are of the most aggressive variety - Floatation 35x12.5s - which are even more aggressive in tread than the more typical LT sizes most people will run.

IMO, the Toyo's and Falken's are current crème of the crop in the AT tire segment, with the advantage of technology, being some of the most modern tires with Toyo's just released in 2020. Breadth of consistently high performance across all qualities, without any notable gaps, i.e. all terrain, is their forte. I continue to hold the Falken's in very high regard, and perhaps like that tire more for its added aggressiveness over the Toyo. As an early adopter of the Falken's and an advocate based on its performance, I would say my impressions were shared by the majority as that tire became more widely adopted.

Onto the review of the Toyo's

Noise - There is low level noise as expected with just about any A/T tire. It's about the volume of wind noise. Soft, unobtrusive, and in a low tone even on hard concrete pavements. Comparable to the Falken's which themselves were mild and very acceptable. Interestingly, the AT3s are a tad louder in middling speeds, while getting quieter at high freeway 70-85mph speeds, compared to the Falken's that go up in volume with speed. Different noise optimization perhaps, but I like this quality of the Toyo's as it's the long highway drives at constant high speed where the reduced noise is even more appreciated. I give a very slight noise edge to the Toyo's, understanding that the Falken's were maybe more amazing as they had more aggressive tread.

Vibration and Harshness - Immediate impressions is that Toyo's roll like butter, even with large AT tread blocks. Not unlike a highway tread tire. Very little weight added to the wheel to balance which is what I was hoping for with XL size 35s. From my research, Toyo's are at the top of the heap for roundness and balance with their proprietary construction techniques and it proved out with my examples. Large, and very large tires can be hard to balance, particularly with proportionately smaller wheels as the added wheel weights at the rim position only influence so much imbalance at the tread. Toyo's also behave very well on highway expansion joints and bumps with minimal shock translated, though that may be a function of how large these tires are, so my comments on harshness may be biased. Still, research shows vibration and harshness of these tires at the upper end of the competitive set.

Wet and Rain - Wow. Just drove through the first major rain of the season in SoCal and it was a proper rare deluge of cats and dogs. Wiper on max was not enough to keep large heavy drops off the windshield. These Toyo's just plowed through heavy rain and water at full highway speeds 70-85mph, without a care in the world. Just like the Falken's really. Where the Toyo's also stood out was the ability to maintain a high level of traction and grip on wet surfaces on mountain roads, with surprisingly progressive breakaway characteristics. Rain handling is exceptional.

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Snow - I went to seek snow up at 4,500 ft, but never found it as the rain was too heavy and was just not yet cold enough. Research of professional impressions show these to be class leading.

Braking - I had the unfortunate experience to emergency brake on dry surface in a deer incident (in SoCal??), full on ABS braking from 60-15mph before punting the medium size deer. (cosmetic damage to grill and bumper but all has been since resolved and deer scampered away fine). With Tundra BBKs, braking was confidence inspiring, straight, and strong. No qualms about performance here.

Handling - This is where 35s may compromise some of my ability to form an impressions. Initial turn-in feels soft as a result of the XL sized tire with large sidewalls and relatively higher COG. I've compensated by going from 35 PSI RCTIP to 38 PSI. Handling is strong and resolute after considering the damping affect of larger tires. Towing a 8k lbs travel trailer, with 5k lbs on the rear axle, these tires are stable, quiet, with no unexpected heat with a non-contact thermometer. I do air them up to ~42 PSI as I've done with Falken's for that extra edge in stability and handling. I have no hesitation that this tire will meet expectations for handling. In general, 33s are the sweet spot for handling and all around capability in my mind. Research has this tire as a top performer in handling, wet and dry, with excellent stability and good non-resonant feedback.

Ride Quality - Butter. Definitely so with 35s. At RCTIP, sidewalls even feel a bit soft that I went up in pressure. Part of this maybe my tire sizing. Falken's had great ride quality as well. I've always said that wide buldged tire fitments can be an advantage to ride as the sidewall geometry can be more compliant vs squared fitments of 275/285s and it shows here abain with a great comfortable ride.

MPG - Not apples to apples of course. I'm on 35s, but also re-geared with 4.3s such that gearing is practically stock again. No real aero impacting mods other than the tires and minor 1" lift. About 250lbs added with the significant items of LRA aux tank and sliders. Pleasantly surprised I can still hit 15MPG on the freeway with middling aggressiveness and average 75 MPH speeds. In easy driving, could probably touch 16+ MPG but I don't tend to drive like that.

Sidewall Lugs - Medium aggressiveness compared to other standouts on the market. These have milder side lugs compared to Falken AT3Ws or KO2s.

Rim Protector - No rim lip protectors. Compared to a descent ones found on the Falken's.

Off-road - Beast, but then again, what 35" wouldn't be? Airing down to 15PSI, provides huge footprints, traction, and floatation. One recent 100 miles off-road jaunt in Death Valley with flowing fast tracks, some parts with really harsh corrugations, no problem at all keeping a comfortable 40-50 mph with the family relaxed. Corning traction and breakaway were good and predictable. Sand, no issue again with great floatation and smoothing out of surfaces. I haven't seen the full spectrum of off-road surfaces yet, but it should be solid.

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More Toyo AT3 research can be had here. Particularly in the comments where Joe provides candid responses.

 

[gaijin]

Since I had K02 before want to give a quick update on Toyo Open Country AT3 based on 1st day experience. I got the SL version 275/65/18

I will try to reduce PSI as DT put it 4 PSI higher than recommended here on forum.

FYI, the RCTIP for those ISO-Metric 275/65R18 116T SL tires on your LC200 is 33psi F/R.

HTH

 

[MTExplorer]

It's been hard to make a judgement based on my impressions comparing a 33x12.5 to a 35x12.5 . They are both great on just about all surfaces and weather. Both meet the threshold in my mind of having good enough NVH behavior, especially ride comfort on road, where I spend 95% of my time to warrant further consideration.

The difference is that the Falken are incrementally more aggressive, deepest treads and prominent side lugs, physically bigger in most sizes, possibly more performant off-road, in mild mud, and looser surfaces. The Toyo's a tad milder with less aggressive sidewall lugs, no rim protector, yet lighter in weight.

Noise comparisons highlighted below in an earlier post.

Copied from here - Help needed with A/T tire decision.. - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/help-needed-with-a-t-tire-decision.1095935/post-13626283

Thanks for thorough reply. Helpful to know and also to see the quoted message from the other thread in the context of this one.

I had a vague recollection of noise being mentioned somewhere but too many tire threads makes everything a blur haha.

 

[luke27617]

Note that someone else on here had issues getting them to honor the test drive warranty. Might be worth some digging to see if there were any updates on that.

They advertise on the Toyo site. I am not worried about honoring. Discount Tire was always great when had issues.

 

[luke27617]

FYI, the RCTIP for those ISO-Metric 275/65R18 116T SL tires on your LC200 is 33psi F/R.

HTH

Yes, I was commenting that the pressure is too high per your feedback from your other thread where you have provided the guidance. Adjusting per your suggestion. Big Thanks!!!!

 

[bloc]

They advertise on the Toyo site. I am not worries about honoring. Discount Tire was always great when had issues.

Again, I’d do some searching on here. I specifically remember someone having issues with getting that warranty to be honored, and I think discount tire might have even been involved. Might be wrong about the last part though.

 

[teambell]

Since I had K02 before want to give a quick update on Toyo Open Country AT3 based on 1st day experience. I got the SL version 275/65/18

- With 32.1" tire I was very surprised that got slight rubbing on driver side when reversing and in full lock. Rubbing is above mudflats (attaching a picture). Only have OEM spacers installed in front. Inner fender may have been changed as groves stick out more than lower flaps.
- Ride: comfort and handling is great. Very similar to K02 but so far tested only in dry conditions. I am expecting wet conditions to be better as K02s were just ok
- Looks: I think K02 looks better but Toyos not bad for SL version (attaching more pictures)
- Noise I would say is very similar to K02. This is a disappointment as expected much more quiet experience based on new tech and feedbacks I have read. This was a main decision point why Toyos. I have tested decibels with factory Dunlops and Toyos and noise went up by 5 in 20+ speeds. You can hear the hum in all speeds starting 20mph. I will try to reduce PSI as DT put it 4 PSI higher than recommended here on forum. Toyos comes with 45 days /500 miles test drive guarantee. Will see how next few days goes but may flip them for Falkens wildpeaks as in some reviews those were more quiet than Toyos.

BTW if you go with the tire, please note that the tire has two different sides. The more aggressive side has Toyo name more raised and as each side wall tooth has a line across as you can see in the first picture.

I would like to hear feedback from anyone who had Falkens wildpeaks and now Toyos Open Country AT3.

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Dang. I really appreciate the report, I had been convinced that they would be much quieter by the report from folks on this site. Honestly, I had no idea how quiet a stock, new LC is on the OEM tires until I picked this one up, my first new one. The ride and sound is fantastic. I have always immediately put new KO2 LRE in 285/65/18 and proceeded to run 90% on road with them. I was hopeful these new AT III would be a good combo.

 

[Madtiger]

Dang. I really appreciate the report, I had been convinced that they would be much quieter by the report from folks on this site. Honestly, I had no idea how quiet a stock, new LC is on the OEN tires until I picked this one up, my first new one. The ride and sound is fantastic. I have always immediately put new KO2 LRE in 285/65/18 and proceeded to run 90% on road with them. I was hopeful these new AT III would be a good combo.

Remember, most folks buy tires after the previous set has worn down. So, the reviews of the new tires is naturally biased because they compare a new tire with an old worn out tire…and of course compare them favorably. Any enthusiastic review of a tire should be taken with a grain of salt.

This is why i read the BAD rating TireRack’s customer reviews as much as the good ratings ones.

The stock tires are REALLY quiet. Even something as mild as Michelin Defender becomes noisy with age…as i recently rode in LC with them…it was kinda disappointing.

 

[WesSiler]

I switched the 200 from 32-inch p-metric Falken AT3Ws to 33-inch LT Toyo ATIIIs when we added the suspension. The ATIIIs were a little stiffer and a tiny bit noisier, but that's likely explained by them being LTs. They did seem to quiet down with a few miles on them. But, for reference, they're quieter than the Blizzak DM-V2s that are on right now; ATIIIs aren't a loud tire.

Obviously any all terrain is going to be noisier than the s***ty stock all-season road tires. And friends don't let friends run Michelin Defenders in the mistaken belief that they offer any capability off-road or in winter. They're just another s***ting all-season road tire. The M+S stamp is achieved by a 2D analysis of the void to lug ratio in the tread pattern. It does not reflect any designed, tested, or real world capability.

If you're so worried about tire noise that a p-metric all-terrain bothers you, why'd you buy a 200 and not some luxury road-oriented crossover?

 

[1world1love]

I'm convinced that tire and road noise is such a subjective thing that it is useless trying to depend on anything but direct experience, or highly controlled studies. I had Michelin Defenders on another vehicle and they are considered one of the quietist tire on the market, but it was much louder than the Firestone Destinations I had previously.

There are just too many factors - the quality of the roads, atmospheric conditions, vehicle load, the sensitivity of the driver, personal bias, and prior experiences, probably alignment and tire balance, not to mention tread wear. These all play such a huge factor that while you can go on tire rack and see the overall trends for a given tire, you may end up having a completely different experience. For this reason, I only buy from DT/AT or anywhere that allows returns, but even then, it may take 1000 miles before you can really assess.

It would be great if there was a standardized noise rating, although as Wes points out, almost all ratings are based on technicalities which manufacturers can exploit anyways.

It really is a crapshoot. But for my part, my KO2s are surprisingly quiet to my ears.