Tools needed for knuckle rebuild
- Thread starter michaelharrisco
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In my opinion stainless is not ideal for "Jesus Bolts" meaning a bolt that if come loose or fails then you get to meet Jesus. Steel grade 8 is much stronger than stainless. There are other issues with stainless like gauling or cold welding. When I was a kid I word as bicycle mechanic and you'd see a lot of thread problems on stainless vs regular steel. You must use antisieze on stainless!
Stainless for other stuff is fine but my peeve of mixing 12mm and 13mm wrench size comes into play when you mix locally sourced 8mm DIN/, ISO or ANSI vs JIS. I also like the captive washers on the OEM hardware. Hard to find in stainless.
It is annoying when something like a carburetor is held on with three 12mm and one 13mm nut
JIS is the specification for Japanese hardware and the 8mm thread size uses a 12mm wrench where as DIN, ISO and ANSI use a 13mm wrench for the 8mm thread size.
If you don't mind having 12 and 13 mm stuff mixed it's not big deal.
You can get 12mm JIS stainless from a Japanese motorcycle store as it's used on Jetski's but it's expensive.
While on the subject on JIS - ever notice why a Phillips screwdriver does not always work on your Land Cruiser? That is because it's not Philips! JIS has their own Phillips called "purasu" and they work much better than Phillips with the correct JIS screws. Buy one from Jenson or a hobby shop and you'll never cam out a screw on your Cruiser. Also ideal for working on electronics.
http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm
and
http://www.amazon.com/Hozan-JIS-4-JIS-Screwdriver-2nd/dp/B005NIY3PM?tag=ihco-20
this one rocks for WS frame bolts
http://compare.ebay.com/like/190693687493?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
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Do we have a strength rating chart for stainless and how it compares to Gr5 Gr8 and metric Gr12? That'd be interesting to see.
I agree though, there is no reason to replace these "jesus" (
) nuts and bolts with stainless. It takes 20 years in the northeast to get them rusty enough that they have to be replaced. Down here, unless you're going swimming in the ocean regularly you're good for at least another 20 years worth of birf jobs without having those fasteners seize up or fail.I used to be a big supporter of SS fasteners for a bunch of things on the truck, but then I discovered aluminum anti-seize. Stuff works magic. Only stainless fasteners I have now are on the WagonGear panels inside.
- Thread starter
- #25
Thanks everyone... As a new guy I will take your advice.
I became a SS fan after the first time I had to deal with rusty bolt removal on the fj and told myself never again, but on the flip side I totally get the strength needed in certain assemblies and when it is and isn't appropriate.
Hopefully tomorrow I make some good progress.
On the grease post from before: I have Lucas multi purpose grease. Is that not correct?
I became a SS fan after the first time I had to deal with rusty bolt removal on the fj and told myself never again, but on the flip side I totally get the strength needed in certain assemblies and when it is and isn't appropriate.
Hopefully tomorrow I make some good progress.
On the grease post from before: I have Lucas multi purpose grease. Is that not correct?
- Thread starter
- #26
Lucas red and tacky grease says "fortified". Is that correct? I'm not familar with these specifics, but do want to make sure I do it right.
Thanks John! Good references right there.
You're using the high dollar Lucas grease!
What exactly is that grease "fortified" with? It needs to be fortified with molybdenum, a stabilizer that keeps the grease up inside the birfield bell without breaking down too quicklyt. It is appropriate for the birfs not only for that fact but also because non-fortified greases will easily leak out of the felt and rubber wipers on the back of the knuckle.
The way was explained to me many moons ago, even before young Monsta was thought about. Was Moly Fortified is used for slow moving parts where the grease needs to stick better to the things it is covering, and the wheel bearing grease is for just that, parts that move at a high rate of speed.
- Thread starter
- #29
Lucas greases do not have moly in them (just called them) I'm still going to use in the bearings, but find something with moly for the knuckles.
I'm a huge supporter of Lucas no matter what anyone says. With a job as time consuming as this I'm gonna go the extra mile and put Lucas in there.
Off to Wilders to get hardware
I'm a huge supporter of Lucas no matter what anyone says. With a job as time consuming as this I'm gonna go the extra mile and put Lucas in there.
Off to Wilders to get hardware
I had great luck with Lucas gear oil in my 72 FJ40. When I put the adapter in the transfer case for the TH350 the transfer case started to howl and whine. Put that stuff in there and the nose was noticeably quieter.
I think the noise was caused by the new shaft of the adapter and the old worn in gear.
I was sold on the stuff and their display at the parts store is super neat with the gears in the see through case that shows their oil clinging to the gears.
I am going to check out that nut and bolt store ASAP. All the time I spent responding to this thread will be repaid by having the knowledge of that store in the area when I get into a crunch and need a fastener. Karma.
- Thread starter
- #31
Got moly grease and wilders had what I needed and gave me reco of no SS as well (not surprised).
They do carry some JIS stuff there, but not this particular size but I'm okay with that. It will all match and be clean.
One thing I can't seem to find is the torque spec for the studs on the knuckle. Anyone know? I have 4 I have to put back in and I'd like to make sure the others are where they need to be.
I also still need to find a scale. Since mine leaked before I want to make sure I'm reasonably set to avoid any leaks. I had 2 shims on the top and none on the bottom. I assume ill put it back together this way, but if it doesn't feel right or come in line with the force on the scale that is in the geosoftware (or whatever that post is about this job) instructions I'm following I may adjust.
I feel like I'm lobbing a bunch of scattered thoughts????
They do carry some JIS stuff there, but not this particular size but I'm okay with that. It will all match and be clean.
One thing I can't seem to find is the torque spec for the studs on the knuckle. Anyone know? I have 4 I have to put back in and I'd like to make sure the others are where they need to be.
I also still need to find a scale. Since mine leaked before I want to make sure I'm reasonably set to avoid any leaks. I had 2 shims on the top and none on the bottom. I assume ill put it back together this way, but if it doesn't feel right or come in line with the force on the scale that is in the geosoftware (or whatever that post is about this job) instructions I'm following I may adjust.
I feel like I'm lobbing a bunch of scattered thoughts????
There is no torque spec for the studs themselves. The factory studs don't even have a provision for a tool, they're just threaded rod. Thread them in until they're hand tight, then torque the nuts onto them.
The knuckle shims ( on top and bottom of the knuckle ) must be installed exactly as they were taken off. The top ones set trunion bearing preload and the bottom ones center the knuckle in the housing. These values are set at the factory, do not change them.
The scale is to measure the preload of the wheel bearings, the ones that go onto the spindle. Someone here in Raleigh may have one, or else just go to Gander Mountain ( or the like ) and buy a fish scale.
The knuckle shims ( on top and bottom of the knuckle ) must be installed exactly as they were taken off. The top ones set trunion bearing preload and the bottom ones center the knuckle in the housing. These values are set at the factory, do not change them.
The scale is to measure the preload of the wheel bearings, the ones that go onto the spindle. Someone here in Raleigh may have one, or else just go to Gander Mountain ( or the like ) and buy a fish scale.
- Thread starter
- #33
Agreed, I just get worried some PO did not do this and now I'm putting it back in wrong.
I wonder if / how many times this job has been done before on this 40. I'm starting to think the rubber and felt gaskets between the back of the knuckle and the axle was my biggest problem as they looked pretty rough.
Gotcha. The only way to verify the knuckle centering shims is to use the knuckle centering tool. This is expensive from Toyota, but I think Darin has one if you really want to verify.
The trunion preload is set via shims and measured in ft/lbs similarly to the wheel bearings. This needs to be done after the knuckle is centered.
- Thread starter
- #35
Made a little progress this weekend, but not as much as I wished.
Quick sanity check.... Does this grease coverage look reasonable for inside the knuckle?
I have to take a quick detour and replace a brake line that snapped so that is costing me about an evening worth of time at my pace.
Quick sanity check.... Does this grease coverage look reasonable for inside the knuckle?
I have to take a quick detour and replace a brake line that snapped so that is costing me about an evening worth of time at my pace.
- Thread starter
- #37
Why I posted!
Thanks so much. I had a feeling it needed more because some guys say they use a whole tube per side. I will pack it full before assembling (after I get this brake crap taken care of that I broke)
I really think the other side is going to go a lot faster (famous last words though).
Thanks so much. I had a feeling it needed more because some guys say they use a whole tube per side. I will pack it full before assembling (after I get this brake crap taken care of that I broke)
I really think the other side is going to go a lot faster (famous last words though).
It will! Just make sure to torque everything to the right specs and you're going to be good to go.
FWIW, I usually buy a 5# tub of moly grease from autozone and use that for everything. Knuckles, birfs, bearings. 5# is usually good for 2 full rebuilds after completely cleaning everything, or 3-4 repack jobs.
- Thread starter
- #39
So far everything is torqued within spec.... So I think I'm good there. I ever got ~4 lbs on the fish scale so I think I'm good.
Hopefully tonight I will get the new brake line in and tomorrow the new brake hose going from the caliber to the line is coming in.
Last night I was taking the old brake line out and cleaning all the crap off the front axle when I came across something I've never noticed.
It looks similar to the top of the steering box, but I can't figure out what it is on top of the axle.
See the red circle in the pic. Can someone explain?
Hope I'm not being annoying....
Hopefully tonight I will get the new brake line in and tomorrow the new brake hose going from the caliber to the line is coming in.
Last night I was taking the old brake line out and cleaning all the crap off the front axle when I came across something I've never noticed.
It looks similar to the top of the steering box, but I can't figure out what it is on top of the axle.
See the red circle in the pic. Can someone explain?
Hope I'm not being annoying....