To 200 or not to 200... (1 Viewer)

[grinchy]

by this logic you will end up with an 80 series.

 

[Whiskerz]

I started out looking at 80's then figured out the money between a nice 80 and a decent used 200 was not a ton and you got a lot more car. It was easier to sell the GF on the 200 as well. I also looked at new 4 runners. She loved the 200 after driving one. I was concerned about giving up on locking diffs and realize I can add them later. So far the 200 has been very capable off road with just a tire and wheel change.

 

[azstreamer]

I have no history with any Toyota vehicles before 2020. I have had Mercedes models since the late 70s. I think my 560SEL was one powerful and beautiful vehicle. The 560SL was quite the hotrod as well. Driving the 200D manual was fun and the fuel economy ws nice even back then.

I used my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel to tow an Airstream 2013 25FB International Serenity. New and empty, it worked towing home from Los Angles to Phoenix with no issues climbing out of Palm Springs on I-10. Once we loaded the 25FB for camping, the ML was not happy. So we acquired a dedicated towing machine:: a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins and modified it to the hilt.

The 25FB had a Hensley hitch that we kept when the 25FB was traded in on an Airstream 2014 31' Classic but used a ProPride hitch (second generation Jim Hensley design).

We decided we wanted a smaller trailer too so we bought an Airstream 2015 23D International Serenity. The Mercedes and the Hensley hitch were pressed back into service. The 23D was an ideal fit for the ML. But all good things do end and the occurrence of a pending major $3,500 repair was the death nell for the Mercedes at 205,000 miles. My wife's E320 CDI was starting the first occurrence of this chronic problem so it left the fleet as well.

We transitioned to Toyota land because of perceived quality and dealers near our home and summer Airstream only RV park in the mountains near Show Low, AZ My wife selected a 2020 RAV4 Limited Hybrid 4x4 and I selected the 2020 Highlander Platinum V6 4x4. thinking I can make this tow the 23D. Nope.

So I went back to a dealership to see what other options might exist. As I drove up, there was a silver Land Cruiser sitting out front that looked to me like I could make it work. I called back the next morning and asked them to hold until I could get there around 1:00pm. By 6:30PM I was driving home in our new Land Cruiser. It was built in December 2020 so there was a good inventory of parts. Sadly, production of the series 200 ends 31 March 2021 and all production is now fully allocated. List price will be a bargain as some dealers are adding a $10k adder now.

There may be a 300 series (some mules dressed in drag in Japan are sporting similar parts) but they may never show here. Only about 4,000 Land Crusiers were sold in 2020 in the USA.

IH8MUD is very similar to AirForums as there is a wealth of experience there with folks sharing their experiences and suggestions. I have ordered the Firestone coil spring air bags for use when towing along with a Tuson Brake controller like I have in my truck. We are awaiting an Australian 12,5 gallon auxiliary gas tank thet will install above the spare tire. I have an ARB air compressor in a bag for the 23D so that issue is taken care of without complicated wiring in the car.

Due to the COVID mess, I have not been out and about much, but had the second Pfizer s*** on Wednesday so I will be getting a little more adventurous.outside.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have no history with any Toyota vehicles before 2020. I have had Mercedes models since the late 70s. I think my 560SEL was one powerful and beautiful vehicle. The 560SL was quite the hotrod as well. Driving the 200D manual was fun and the fuel economy ws nice even back then.

I used my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel to tow an Airstream 2013 25FB International Serenity. New and empty, it worked towing home from Los Angles to Phoenix with no issues climbing out of Palm Springs on I-10. Once we loaded the 25FB for camping, the ML was not happy. So we acquired a dedicated towing machine:: a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins and modified it to the hilt.

The 25FB had a Hensley hitch that we kept when the 25FB was traded in on an Airstream 2014 31' Classic but used a ProPride hitch (second generation Jim Hensley design).

We decided we wanted a smaller trailer too so we bought an Airstream 2015 23D International Serenity. The Mercedes and the Hensley hitch were pressed back into service. The 23D was an ideal fit for the ML. But all good things do end and the occurrence of a pending major $3,500 repair was the death nell for the Mercedes at 205,000 miles. My wife's E320 CDI was starting the first occurrence of this chronic problem so it left the fleet as well.

We transitioned to Toyota land because of perceived quality and dealers near our home and summer Airstream only RV park in the mountains near Show Low, AZ My wife selected a 2020 RAV4 Limited Hybrid 4x4 and I selected the 2020 Highlander Platinum V6 4x4. thinking I can make this tow the 23D. Nope.

So I went back to a dealership to see what other options might exist. As I drove up, there was a silver Land Cruiser sitting out front that looked to me like I could make it work. I called back the next morning and asked them to hold until I could get there around 1:00pm. By 6:30PM I was driving home in our new Land Cruiser. It was built in December 2020 so there was a good inventory of parts. Sadly, production of the series 200 ends 31 March 2021 and all production is now fully allocated. List price will be a bargain as some dealers are adding a $10k adder now.

There may be a 300 series (some mules dressed in drag in Japan are sporting similar parts) but they may never show here. Only about 4,000 Land Crusiers were sold in 2020 in the USA.

IH8MUD is very similar to AirForums as there is a wealth of experience there with folks sharing their experiences and suggestions. I have ordered the Firestone coil spring air bags for use when towing along with a Tuson Brake controller like I have in my truck. We are awaiting an Australian 12,5 gallon auxiliary gas tank thet will install above the spare tire. I have an ARB air compressor in a bag for the 23D so that issue is taken care of without complicated wiring in the car.

Due to the COVID mess, I have not been out and about much, but had the second Pfizer s*** on Wednesday so I will be getting a little more adventurous.outside.

Looking forward to your build and impressions.

May I ask what the reoccurring problem with the Mercedes was?

 

[684cruiser]

I test drove a 2021 brand new LX570 while my wife's RX was being serviced and man I know what I want in the future. The ride quality is way better than her RX, the build quality is amazing and it is so quiet in that cab I can't sneak a fart out when I have guests riding. It really does feel like you're driving a tank, but it doesn't feel as big as it looks. You won't regret getting a 200.

 

[4wheelgreg]

I have always toyhaulers 38+ with diesel trucks , just made out better in the end . Never really towed anything really heavy with my 200’s I would figure the 200 would be fine on flat and not stopping too much and hills might get a little squirrely
Fuel milage would dismal towing a 33‘ ?

 

[azstreamer]

At the back of the valley of the Mercedes 3.0L V6 turbo diesel is an oil cooler with gaskets. They run the engine so hot for emissions that the gaskets get cooked and after about 75,000 miles , fail with oil leaks. The bad financial news is the $3,500 charge for less than $50 in gaskets. So while the entire top of the engine is off, one replaces all accessible replaceable parts and gaskets. This is applicable to all the Sprinters as well. Our local HVAC chap had a fleet of Sprinters as service vans. When the second occurrence happened, they could not afford that much maintenance expense and the Sprinters were gone.

The first time this event occurred, I thought this was unusual for roughly 75,000 miles. The second one around 150,000 was a pain in the backside. The signs of another pending episode at 205,000 miles was the end as the car was not worth the repair cost and also given the reoccurrence issue history going forward. Mercedes is very aware of this issue but failed to mention that during the sales presentation.....

My wife's 2009 E320 CDI had about 70,000 miles with the beginnings of the same issue plus having had chronic engine signaling issues that were never cured. The acceleration was splendid and we saw 38 to 40 mpg on the highway.

Thus the transition to Toyota. We liked their reliability and the extensive dealer network across the USA. We have a relatively local dealer on the East side of Mesa and one in Show Low where we summer with the 31' Airstream in the mountains. And an oil change on my dime is about $85 at the Toyota dealer versus the $500 handshake at Mercedes for the same service though with a little more oil...

I have a 2002 Mercedes E320 Estate (stationwagon) in the UK that has the straight six 3.2 liter turbo diesel with mechanical Bosch fuel injection that still has zero mechanical issues. Of course distances are short there so it has about 35,000 miles on it. I wish I could bring it back here but the steering wheel is on the other side for the UK....

Maybe I could get the straight 6 engine brought over,,,,,

The Airstream Classic that is 33' long has a GVW of 10,000 pounds. The first ones had tongue weights over 1,400 pounds which can exceed the receiver rating in some of our trucks. Airstream screwed up the axle location. The tri-axle 34' Classic had a GVW of 11,000 pounds with a decent payload. The 33 ' payload is not that great in the real world. We have a 2014 31' Classic that scales 9,200 pounds out of the 10,000 pound GVW and, due to extensive modifications, the tongue weight has reduced from 1,375 pounds to 1,175 pounds as we ditched four Lifeline 6Vdc 300 amp hour GSM batteries on the tongue for one 600 amp hour lithium battery under the front sofa. From the beginning of the 31' experience, we went to 16" Michelin LT tires and hydraulic disc brakes.

Since we also have a 2015 Airstream 23D International Serenity that was towed by the Mercedes ML, I know that the 23D is well within the towing capability of our 2021 Land Cruiser. The Mercedes had a self leveling suspension, so I knew we needed airbags for the 200 as the pressure can be reduced when not towing getting rid of a stiff ride all the time if stronger springs were implemented.

 

[bloc]

At the back of the valley of the Mercedes 3.0L V6 turbo diesel is an oil cooler with gaskets. They run the engine so hot for emissions that the gaskets get cooked and after about 75,000 miles , fail with oil leaks. The bad financial news is the $3,500 charge for less than $50 in gaskets. So while the entire top of the engine is off, one replaces all accessible replaceable parts and gaskets. This is applicable to all the Sprinters as well. Our local HVAC chap had a fleet of Sprinters as service vans. When the second occurrence happened, they could not afford that much maintenance expense and the Sprinters were gone.

The first time this event occurred, I thought this was unusual for roughly 75,000 miles. The second one around 150,000 was a pain in the backside. The signs of another pending episode at 205,000 miles was the end as the car was not worth the repair cost and also given the reoccurrence issue history going forward. Mercedes is very aware of this issue but failed to mention that during the sales presentation.....

My wife's 2009 E320 CDI had about 70,000 miles with the beginnings of the same issue plus having had chronic engine signaling issues that were never cured. The acceleration was splendid and we saw 38 to 40 mpg on the highway.

Thus the transition to Toyota. We liked their reliability and the extensive dealer network across the USA. We have a relatively local dealer on the East side of Mesa and one in Show Low where we summer with the 31' Airstream in the mountains. And an oil change on my dime is about $85 at the Toyota dealer versus the $500 handshake at Mercedes for the same service though with a little more oil...

I have a 2002 Mercedes E320 Estate (stationwagon) in the UK that has the straight six 3.2 liter turbo diesel with mechanical Bosch fuel injection that still has zero mechanical issues. Of course distances are short there so it has about 35,000 miles on it. I wish I could bring it back here but the steering wheel is on the other side for the UK....

Maybe I could get the straight 6 engine brought over,,,,,

The Airstream Classic that is 33' long has a GVW of 10,000 pounds. The first ones had tongue weights over 1,400 pounds which can exceed the receiver rating in some of our trucks. Airstream screwed up the axle location. The tri-axle 34' Classic had a GVW of 11,000 pounds with a decent payload. The 33 ' payload is not that great in the real world. We have a 2014 31' Classic that scales 9,200 pounds out of the 10,000 pound GVW and, due to extensive modifications, the tongue weight has reduced from 1,375 pounds to 1,175 pounds as we ditched four Lifeline 6Vdc 300 amp hour GSM batteries on the tongue for one 600 amp hour lithium battery under the front sofa. From the beginning of the 31' experience, we went to 16" Michelin LT tires and hydraulic disc brakes.

Since we also have a 2015 Airstream 23D International Serenity that was towed by the Mercedes ML, I know that the 23D is well within the towing capability of our 2021 Land Cruiser. The Mercedes had a self leveling suspension, so I knew we needed airbags for the 200 as the pressure can be reduced when not towing getting rid of a stiff ride all the time if stronger springs were implemented.

05-06 e320 in the states had the straight six OM648. Common rail injection, but no DPF. Basically the sweet spot of diesel engines IMO.

But, I like driving my cruiser more.

 

[azstreamer]

In my experience, speed is not my friend when towing. The Ram with the 31' Classic scales 19,200 pounds. Peak torque is at 1,450 rpm for the 6.7L Cummins straight six and in 6th gear, that is exactly 65 mph. On the flat we can see 12.5 mpg at that speed. Tne Mercedes ML was very happy at 55 mph and all the gears worked for hill climbing and descending without reving the engine too high. We would see 16.5 mpg at that speed towing the 23D. Both vehicles can go much faster than the towing speeds shown above, but then the drive becomes more stressful and if a tire blows, the excitement knows no bounds.

My wife's 2009 E320 had regeneration but later in the 2009 model year all the MB diesels got DEF. The 2007 ML was build in October 2006 and that was not an issue at that time. I got one of the last of the regeneration 2012 Rams with Cummins as 2013 was DEF. The Ram was originally regeneration, but a few bumps in the road changed all of that.

I expect the LC could see at least 10 mpg, if not more, towing on the flat at 55 mph. A rough rule of thumb is fuel economy drops about 5% for every 5 mph increment above 55. The wheel base for the Mercedes was 114.7" versus the Land Cruiser 112.2" and the Mercedes was 188.5 long versus the Land Cruiser 194.9". Those numbers reflect the towing concern as a shorter wheel base could be an issue. A short trailer (the 23D is 23' long) is easily doable but longer units may require more attention when driving in less than calm days....