Heavier tires that provide more armor is great......heavier tires due to using old technology with no benefit is another matter.
tire recommendation (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Samuraj
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Heavier tires that provide more armor is great......heavier tires due to using old technology with no benefit is another matter.
I'm all for everyone having their own preferences. KO2s taste better to you. Awesome. It is a benchmark tire after all and has its advantages.
I'm seeking different qualities. Hence my choice. You can knock it all you'd like. It has meaningful benefits that you might not appreciate, but others may. I'm only interested in accurately presenting those qualities.
1) You claim they weigh more. True. They give you more rubber and tread depth too which has advantages to evacuating water and traction.
2) You claim they only last 30k-40k in the real world. False. Nevermind they have a 55k mile life warranty.
3) You claim KO2s handle rain fine. Okay. AT3Ws handle rain better
4) You claim KO2s are quiet. Okay. AT3Ws are quieter.
5) AT3Ws for snow and ice in spades
6) You claim they use cheap steel. Great. The tire price reflects that. While giving key advantages in real world performance as stated above.
I'm seeking different qualities. Hence my choice. You can knock it all you'd like. It has meaningful benefits that you might not appreciate, but others may. I'm only interested in accurately presenting those qualities.
1) You claim they weigh more. True. They give you more rubber and tread depth too which has advantages to evacuating water and traction.
2) You claim they only last 30k-40k in the real world. False. Nevermind they have a 55k mile life warranty.
3) You claim KO2s handle rain fine. Okay. AT3Ws handle rain better
4) You claim KO2s are quiet. Okay. AT3Ws are quieter.
5) AT3Ws for snow and ice in spades
6) You claim they use cheap steel. Great. The tire price reflects that. While giving key advantages in real world performance as stated above.
Actually, i don’t compare AT3W to KO2. Not in same class.
1. If more rubber and tread depth were needed, then why do some of the best rain tires have some of the shallowest thread depth? Highway tires that do amazing in rain don’t have 19/32” depth.
Design of the tread and rubber compound are far more effective for snow and rain.
Tread depth is good for wear (not so much in case of AT3W) and self-cleaning while off-roading.
2. Look around the net. Forums. After about 30-40k, AT3W are just awful. But, hey, you like them. Have you ever thought why 19/32” tire only has 55k warranty???
3. Rain better? probably, probably not. AT3W is a highway tire with aggressive tread. KO2 are more off-road oriented. BUT, again, no objective testing to confirm your claim either.
What we do have is that KO2 vs. some popular P-metric MILD ATs did amazingly well via TireRack: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/test...52cc&cjevent=06b535a35f0611ea80e401cc0a1c0e11 .
4. AT3W quieter? Based on one guy. They may very well be...or not. BUT we do have this thread on 4runner forum about how noisy they are: Toyota-4Runner.org
But hate to point out TireRack comparison again...but KO2 are pretty damn quiet!
5. You have objective testing to back this up? Because i am sure that i can find something on internet to disprove it.
6. We agree finally on them using cheap steel to keep prices down...because your previous post was just too funny.
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When I read that thread using reading comprehension & keep a tally on the comments, the consensus is that the Wildpeak was too noisy for ONE guy (@ 20K miles, he swapped them out). The majority of comments were it's noiser than the P-metric OEMs:
In fact, the performance tires on our Subaru are less civilized than these AT tires in terms of comfort.
I have AT3/W in E 285/70-17 and they are quieter that the POS OEM tires I had for two years... or is just me getting old
Over my two sets of these, both roughly 32" OD, I can feel and hear the tread difference compared to a standard passenger road tire, but in no way are they loud.
Mine are certainly louder than the highway tires they replaced and feel different too but that's to be expected. In no way are they overly or annoyingly noisy.
You seem pretty certain you can "document" your opinion on AT3Ws by Googling. i'm pretty confident you can/BUT the link you provided DID NOT. That's fine, as long as you serve it up as posted on your citation.
I spent about 9 months researching replacements for my 2019. Wanting to buy local for rotation/balance/repair, eliminated a # of manufacturers. My "Googling," led me to select Wildpeaks. I did notice that many derogatory comments from actual Wildpeak owners were early on in the release of the tire; and discussions that the latest version was improved.
When I read that thread using reading comprehension & keep a tally on the comments, the consensus is that the Wildpeak was too noisy for ONE guy (@ 20K miles, he swapped them out). The majority of comments were it's noiser than the P-metric OEMs:
In fact, the performance tires on our Subaru are less civilized than these AT tires in terms of comfort.
I have AT3/W in E 285/70-17 and they are quieter that the POS OEM tires I had for two years... or is just me getting old
Over my two sets of these, both roughly 32" OD, I can feel and hear the tread difference compared to a standard passenger road tire, but in no way are they loud.
Mine are certainly louder than the highway tires they replaced and feel different too but that's to be expected. In no way are they overly or annoyingly noisy.
You seem pretty certain you can "document" your opinion on AT3Ws by Googling. i'm pretty confident you can/BUT the link you provided DID NOT. That's fine, as long as you serve it up as posted on your citation.
I spent about 9 months researching replacements for my 2019. Wanting to buy local for rotation/balance/repair, eliminated a # of manufacturers. My "Googling," led me to select Wildpeaks. I did notice that many derogatory comments from actual Wildpeak owners were early on in the release of the tire; and discussions that the latest version was improved.
That same Subaru guy that you quoted has this to say about his P-metric Wildpeak after he changed tires because Wildpeak wore out early:
”
Longevity:
No tires last in the desert but the Wildpeak really is a two-faced tire. The first 2/32nds go down in only about 4,000 miles. But performance is amazing. Then wear improves. Performance remains stellar for a total of about 10-12,000 miles. Then it starts to slowly deteriorate. The tires become visibly "tired" of offroad beating around 22-24,000 and braking performance on road deteriorates past 25,000. All in all, 30,000 is a tall order for a frequently offroaded set. I did not dare to continue past 26,000.
Punctures:
--None in Montana, even at 7/32 on rough 4x4 trails.
--None in Utah, including Kamikaze Hill or Elephant Hill with 8/32 (front only, new rear tires)
--Arizona: three, all on rear mounted tires, all on tires with minimum 13,000 miles on them. One was a slow leak, so totally fine, one was a sidewall burst, which I think was on me for airing down, and one was a tread puncture so bad (yesterday) that all air was lost immediately like with a sidewall puncture. At this point, running them becomes a safety hazard for me (what if that happens on a trail like Pucker Ridge?). Too bad because this is such a great all arounder and the very low price compensates for the lack of longevity.
The bottom line:
SL 265 70 17 Wildpeak feels like "best tire ever" for 10,000 miles. And then it is a good AT for another 15,000, surprisingly capable in many terrains, but not up to the task in the harshest of deserts. The very low price offsets the lack of longevity but I cannot lose a tire in a dangerous spot or a difficult obstacle.
Sorry, I can see how that might be confusing. I was running stock 285/50R20 H/T tires on my 20" rims and the 275/70R18 BFG's on 18s for off-roading. In mixed driving, I averaged around 14-14.5 with stock, and 12-12.5 on the 33" KO2's. I'm currently switching my mix to 32" A/T tires on my 20" rims for daily-drivers and occasional light off-road, and more aggressive 34" R/T or M/T tires for more serious off-roading.
I tried the Conti TerrainContacts in the 275/60R20 for my daily drivers. Yes, they are P-metric SL rated tires. While very comfortable and quiet on the highway, it's a very soft tire and really only suitable for light off-road--especially with 20" wheels where you just don't have a lot of sidewall. I averaged 12.5-13 mpg on the 33" Conti's.
I've come to believe that P-metrics really have no place on a vehicle this heavy (with maybe the exception of XL rated tires), especially with any occasional off-road or towing (I'm sure there are many other opinions out there), so I'll replace them with a slightly more aggressive LT all-terrain tire.
275/70R18 BFG KO2's
275/60R20 Continental TerrainContact A/T
Continental TerrainContact sidewall compression at 30 psi (just slightly aired down)
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Ready to pull the trigger on tires. In the end, decided to ditch the 20" stock LX570 wheels altogether and go with 18s for my DDs. Between the extra stiffness of the E rated tires I'm putting on, and constant reminders on our recent trip to Goblin Valley of the inadequacies of 20" rims for even light off-roading, the extra sidewall should pay dividends on-road and off.
I'm going to take a risk and try out the new Toyo AT III in 275/65R18, mainly because its the lowest weight in an E-rated tire that size, should be a good DD with decent off-road capability, and well, it's new! If I don't like them I'll take advantage of their 45-day guarantee and replace them with the Cooper AT3 XLTs (in 285/65R18). I'll let you all know how it goes!
I'm going to take a risk and try out the new Toyo AT III in 275/65R18, mainly because its the lowest weight in an E-rated tire that size, should be a good DD with decent off-road capability, and well, it's new!
If I don't like them I'll take advantage of their 45-day guarantee and replace them with the Cooper AT3 XLTs (in 285/65R18). I'll let you all know how it goes!
Last weekend I went to OCLA in that soft sugar sand, running stock sized TOYO R/T and it went though the soft deep sand with zero issues, didn't even slow down.
Jeep rubicon running in front of me, locked up, aired down, and running 37's was having issues. Think he had BFG AT's. Plus 2 several other jeep following had issues.
I wasn't even in low or sand mod. Just high normal awd. Not locked at all. and I didn't bother airing down either.
We also ran some twisty trails and near 45 degree angles..
SO I was impressed with the toyo r/t tire and LC200 performance.. so were they.
Jeep rubicon running in front of me, locked up, aired down, and running 37's was having issues. Think he had BFG AT's. Plus 2 several other jeep following had issues.
I wasn't even in low or sand mod. Just high normal awd. Not locked at all. and I didn't bother airing down either.
We also ran some twisty trails and near 45 degree angles..
SO I was impressed with the toyo r/t tire and LC200 performance.. so were they.
These look awesome - look forward to the feedback!Ready to pull the trigger on tires. In the end, decided to ditch the 20" stock LX570 wheels altogether and go with 18s for my DDs. Between the extra stiffness of the E rated tires I'm putting on, and constant reminders on our recent trip to Goblin Valley of the inadequacies of 20" rims for even light off-roading, the extra sidewall should pay dividends on-road and off.
I'm going to take a risk and try out the new Toyo AT III in 275/65R18, mainly because its the lowest weight in an E-rated tire that size, should be a good DD with decent off-road capability, and well, it's new!
Moby
GOLD Star
Any love out there for the Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo 3 for a hybrid on/off road AT in LT285/65/18? I run lots of highway, very little commuting, and mild to bad gravel and forest roads. I don't want to get into a debate on tire weight, except to say that I do consider it part of my decision making process. This tire matches well with my intended use, which includes lots of rain and snow (although I may run dedicated snow tires in a 275/65/18). TireRack subjective testing has it beating the Cooper AT3 by a bit in dry/wet/snow and it is 5lbs/tire lighter.
I wish it wasn't an LT, but it seems everything in this size is LT only with the possible exceptions of BFG ATs (which I have run before and will never run again with the amount of rain and snow I see; again, don't want to start a debate on this polarizing tire, it just doesn't work for my needs). If I decide not to got LT I'll step down and run a hybrid A/T in 275/65/18.
I wish it wasn't an LT, but it seems everything in this size is LT only with the possible exceptions of BFG ATs (which I have run before and will never run again with the amount of rain and snow I see; again, don't want to start a debate on this polarizing tire, it just doesn't work for my needs). If I decide not to got LT I'll step down and run a hybrid A/T in 275/65/18.
I definitely recommend a dedicated snow tire if your average winter temps are below 45 deg. It's good to keep in mind that winter tires are just as much about rubber flexibility and dry performance in low temps as they are about snow and ice performance. The A/Ts with 3PMSF rating are certainly better than M+S, but it's a very limited rating (straight stopping in light snow).
I ran the Revos 6 years ago on my FJ80 and thought they were decent tires on-road, but not great off-road, though I'm sure they've been changed since then. If you want something that can handle rough forest roads and still perform on-highway, stick with E-rated tires, and take a look at the Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT. They don't advertise it for some reason, but I verified with the manufacturer that it's 3PMSF. Other good options to look at in 3PMSF are Falken Wildpeak A/T3W (a mudder favorite, but very heavy), General Grabber ATX, the new Toyo Open Country A/T III (what I decided on), and if you want to lean more toward highway performance, an E-rated Continental TerrainContact A/T (beat the Revo on-road).
Yes, I researched this WAYYY too much before I made my decision and in the end went with the new (unproven) tire on the block just to try it out
(taking one for the team!). If I don't like them I'll switch for the Coopers. 
Moby
GOLD Star
With the Nitto Terra Grapplers on my '62 I never had the need to run snow tires. On my GX I ran milder tires and so I did run dedicate snow tires Dec-Mar. I likely will again, but sometimes I get caught out with an early or late snowstorm so I like to have my "3 season" A/T still have good snow performance. I mainly use my trucks for commuting between Seattle and Bend, accessing the backcountry for skiing and backpacking, and "pre-running" ultra distance gravel and mtb race courses. This is where I might spend several hours at a time on gravel/forest roads.
I like the idea of Coopers and what I read about them, but at this point I don't believe that the weight of those tires is a good fit for my needs. If I needed more off road I'd go Terra Grappler G2s no question. But I'm willing to give up some off road performance for weight, ride and acceleration, and am thinking that the Bridgestone may be a good compromise in an LT. Otherwise I may just go narrower and do a P275/65/18 Terra or maybe even Ridge Grappler.
I like the idea of Coopers and what I read about them, but at this point I don't believe that the weight of those tires is a good fit for my needs. If I needed more off road I'd go Terra Grappler G2s no question. But I'm willing to give up some off road performance for weight, ride and acceleration, and am thinking that the Bridgestone may be a good compromise in an LT. Otherwise I may just go narrower and do a P275/65/18 Terra or maybe even Ridge Grappler.
Take a look at the general grabber apt. Mild tread like the revo, available in P rated into larger sizes, including 275/70/18.
Ridge Grapplers are definitely another great option and are sometimes lighter than other options in the same size, especially if you're willing to settle for XLs. Only reason I didn't mention them is it sounded like you were leaning more toward road performance. The feedback I've heard/read is they'll be slightly louder than most of the AT options and won't give you quite as good wet performance. Others who have experience running both can verify whether that is truly the case.
Speaking of the APT, this is the best and most thorough review I've seen on a line of tires. Compares the General HT, APT, ATX, and X3. Please forgive to Ford test truck! (not my choice
)Wish we had a US outfit that performed such thorough reviews!
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These look awesome - look forward to the feedback!
Nice! These Toyo AT IIIs might have some real potential being the newest kid on the block released this month, March 2020. The AT IIs were some of the best AT tires when they were first released, but getting real long in the tooth having been around since 2013 IIRC. These newest AT IIIs should have a leg up with the newest technology and performance at it was likely benchmarked against some of the big name AT tires.
Seems to be available in a huge number of sizes too.
Good stuff!
Ready to pull the trigger on tires. In the end, decided to ditch the 20" stock LX570 wheels altogether and go with 18s for my DDs. Between the extra stiffness of the E rated tires I'm putting on, and constant reminders on our recent trip to Goblin Valley of the inadequacies of 20" rims for even light off-roading, the extra sidewall should pay dividends on-road and off.
I'm going to take a risk and try out the new Toyo AT III in 275/65R18, mainly because its the lowest weight in an E-rated tire that size, should be a good DD with decent off-road capability, and well, it's new!
I am in the same boat. I have 13 LX 570 with newly purchased Tundra 18" rims. Looking at the Open Country III and the Gotlander a A/T. Undecided at this point. The TRD rims came with brand new LTS A/t 3 with 10/32 still left on the rims.
Well, I tried the Toyo Open Country ATIIIs for two weeks and ended up returning them. Tires were 275/65R18 E and intended to be a daily driver with very good weekend trail capability. I put them through the paces and here are my observations and why I didn't like them. This is a lengthy review and just a single data point, so take it for what it's worth.
I'd been debating between these and the Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT, but decided to try these first because of Toyo's 45-day/500 guarantee. It was attractive because, unlike other brands, they offer a full refund, including install costs, and didn't require you to swap into another Toyo. I scanned the fine print and felt confident in taking a risk on a new, unproven tire.
Performance. IMHO the marketing is mostly hype. First thing that struck me was that the much-vaunted, more aggressive sidewall tread is nothing more than decoration. It's literally printed on the tire and not more than 1/16" relief. The pics online make it look much more aggressive and pronounced than it is. The tires are pretty true to size and measured 31 5/8" x 10 7/8" on 8" wide rims. Tread width is about 9". The tire weighs 51.6 lbs and 82.1 lbs total on OE Tundra alloys. One of the things that attracted me about this tire is its light weight. Since this was to be my DD I wanted to keep the weight and diameter in check (while still switching to E-rated) to maintain my stopping, acceleration, and gear ratios as much as possible.
I was initially pleased with the tires. Dry road performance was good. They, of course, felt stiffer than stock, but not so much that my family noticed much. There was a barely noticeable increase in road-noise, though the noise they make is a bit of a high pitched buzz. I measured them at 66-67 dB at 80mph. They weren't as loud as my BFG KO2's, but louder than the milder Continental TerrainContact AT (which were silent). Off-road at Little Moab, UT the Toyo ATIIIs performed better than the Conti's, though not an apples to apples comparison as the wheel size and tire type are different (Conti's were P275/60R20). I was able to climb a solid rock face obstacle in low range Rock mode that I could not with the Conti's, though with some definite spinning. The extra sidewall and stiffness were also a big plus.
Shortly thereafter we got a good snow in the mountains, so I took them up to test in the empty ski resort parking lots. This is where the disappointment started. Toyo touted the improved rain (didn't test) and snow performance of this tire, and they are 3PMSF, but I thought them mediocre at best. They gripped acceptably on packed snow at 32 degrees, and they stopped just ok. Definitely not skates, and definitely not snow tires. In 6" deep snow, I bogged almost to a complete stop with traction control engaged in 4H. There was enough slip that the computer almost completely disengaged power to all four wheels. With Active TRAC disengaged I was able to keep forward momentum with lots of throttle, but I didn't have a lot of control and didn't corner well. Even in 4L Sand mode the tires struggled in deep snow. With Crawl Control engaged it plowed through ok, but when I tried to use Turn Assist I got a few feet then just stopped and slowly spun all four wheels in-place.
The next test was a trip out to the Deep Creek Mountains in western Utah. Family of five, a dog, and all our camping gear--full load. A good 2 hours of the 3-hour trip was on dirt, gravel, and washboard roads through the Utah desert. I aired down 10, then 15% on the gravel, and the tires gave me a sense of confidence on the drive in. I also got a chance to do some rougher tracks in the mountains and around the old mines. I was generally very satisfied with the off-road traction until we hit some snow patches on a narrow high mountain track with slight sidegrade. To be honest, it scared me. The temps were in the 40s and the snow was the grainy spring stuff about 4-6" deep. The first 20' section of snow only covered 3/4 of the track, so my right tires were on dirt and I still started to slide sideways off the mountain. I backed out and tried again with more momentum. Made it through but the pucker factor was high. The second patch we hit covered the entire track. I started in, but it was clear after 10' that it was a no-go. End of the road.
Though the mountain snow thing was disappointing, I didn't intend to use these as winter tires and that was not high on my list of performance requirements, so not a deal-breaker. However, on the drive home on those gravel roads, I experienced the first flat in the four years I've owned the LX (and really the 18 years I've owned Land Cruisers). Having harshly judged the several mini-vans and cars we saw on the way in dealing with flats (and clearly running P-rated tires), I was pretty raw. Fluke? Maybe. Karma? Perhaps. Surprisingly, the rock punctured through the side of a tread block and tore a 1/2" hole on the inside of the tire. Taken alone this might be explained as one-off bad luck, but after we got home I inspected all the tires and found the treads torn to hell--lots of micro tears in the tread blocks and tire face, chunking, etc. One of the managers at the tire store said some of it looked like torque shear tears. That shouldn't have happened with the type of off-roading we did or traveling 50 mph on 15% aired down, brand new, E-rated tires on a maintained gravel road. The P-rated TerrainContact I threw on as a spare was nowhere near as cut up after another 2 hours on that same gravel, though it did pick up a lot of gravel in the treads. I can't compare the Toyo's to the KO2 off-road because it's been two years, and I rode the KO2s on the East Coast (totally different conditions). However, it did notice that the ATIII hardly threw any gravel into the wheel wells, while my KO2s sounded like hail on gravel roads.
So, the AT IIIs went back to Discount Tire. This is where things go from bad to worse. The replacement insurance I bought covered the punctured and irreparable tire. But the other three... turns out Toyo's guarantee is a joke. Toyo refused to honor the satisfaction warranty because the tires were 'plus size' for my vehicle and not OEM. Who buys OEM sized off-road tires?? How about all the 34"+ size tires they sell? Not a non-commercial vehicle in the world I can think of that has OEM 34"+ tires! They also questioned my decision to air down 15% on gravel roads. Seriously?? Overall my experience with Toyo's customer service was very negative. Discount Tire tried to engage with them as well and also had a bad experience--so much so that they just ate the return and swore never to sell Toyo's again. Fortunately, DT took excellent care of me despite the condition of the tires. Can't say enough good things about those guys. Toyo on the other hand... epic fail. And as a footnote, 500 miles isn't really enough to get a good feel for tires.
I'd been debating between these and the Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT, but decided to try these first because of Toyo's 45-day/500 guarantee. It was attractive because, unlike other brands, they offer a full refund, including install costs, and didn't require you to swap into another Toyo. I scanned the fine print and felt confident in taking a risk on a new, unproven tire.
Performance. IMHO the marketing is mostly hype. First thing that struck me was that the much-vaunted, more aggressive sidewall tread is nothing more than decoration. It's literally printed on the tire and not more than 1/16" relief. The pics online make it look much more aggressive and pronounced than it is. The tires are pretty true to size and measured 31 5/8" x 10 7/8" on 8" wide rims. Tread width is about 9". The tire weighs 51.6 lbs and 82.1 lbs total on OE Tundra alloys. One of the things that attracted me about this tire is its light weight. Since this was to be my DD I wanted to keep the weight and diameter in check (while still switching to E-rated) to maintain my stopping, acceleration, and gear ratios as much as possible.
I was initially pleased with the tires. Dry road performance was good. They, of course, felt stiffer than stock, but not so much that my family noticed much. There was a barely noticeable increase in road-noise, though the noise they make is a bit of a high pitched buzz. I measured them at 66-67 dB at 80mph. They weren't as loud as my BFG KO2's, but louder than the milder Continental TerrainContact AT (which were silent). Off-road at Little Moab, UT the Toyo ATIIIs performed better than the Conti's, though not an apples to apples comparison as the wheel size and tire type are different (Conti's were P275/60R20). I was able to climb a solid rock face obstacle in low range Rock mode that I could not with the Conti's, though with some definite spinning. The extra sidewall and stiffness were also a big plus.
Shortly thereafter we got a good snow in the mountains, so I took them up to test in the empty ski resort parking lots. This is where the disappointment started. Toyo touted the improved rain (didn't test) and snow performance of this tire, and they are 3PMSF, but I thought them mediocre at best. They gripped acceptably on packed snow at 32 degrees, and they stopped just ok. Definitely not skates, and definitely not snow tires. In 6" deep snow, I bogged almost to a complete stop with traction control engaged in 4H. There was enough slip that the computer almost completely disengaged power to all four wheels. With Active TRAC disengaged I was able to keep forward momentum with lots of throttle, but I didn't have a lot of control and didn't corner well. Even in 4L Sand mode the tires struggled in deep snow. With Crawl Control engaged it plowed through ok, but when I tried to use Turn Assist I got a few feet then just stopped and slowly spun all four wheels in-place.
The next test was a trip out to the Deep Creek Mountains in western Utah. Family of five, a dog, and all our camping gear--full load. A good 2 hours of the 3-hour trip was on dirt, gravel, and washboard roads through the Utah desert. I aired down 10, then 15% on the gravel, and the tires gave me a sense of confidence on the drive in. I also got a chance to do some rougher tracks in the mountains and around the old mines. I was generally very satisfied with the off-road traction until we hit some snow patches on a narrow high mountain track with slight sidegrade. To be honest, it scared me. The temps were in the 40s and the snow was the grainy spring stuff about 4-6" deep. The first 20' section of snow only covered 3/4 of the track, so my right tires were on dirt and I still started to slide sideways off the mountain. I backed out and tried again with more momentum. Made it through but the pucker factor was high. The second patch we hit covered the entire track. I started in, but it was clear after 10' that it was a no-go. End of the road.
Though the mountain snow thing was disappointing, I didn't intend to use these as winter tires and that was not high on my list of performance requirements, so not a deal-breaker. However, on the drive home on those gravel roads, I experienced the first flat in the four years I've owned the LX (and really the 18 years I've owned Land Cruisers). Having harshly judged the several mini-vans and cars we saw on the way in dealing with flats (and clearly running P-rated tires), I was pretty raw. Fluke? Maybe. Karma? Perhaps. Surprisingly, the rock punctured through the side of a tread block and tore a 1/2" hole on the inside of the tire. Taken alone this might be explained as one-off bad luck, but after we got home I inspected all the tires and found the treads torn to hell--lots of micro tears in the tread blocks and tire face, chunking, etc. One of the managers at the tire store said some of it looked like torque shear tears. That shouldn't have happened with the type of off-roading we did or traveling 50 mph on 15% aired down, brand new, E-rated tires on a maintained gravel road. The P-rated TerrainContact I threw on as a spare was nowhere near as cut up after another 2 hours on that same gravel, though it did pick up a lot of gravel in the treads. I can't compare the Toyo's to the KO2 off-road because it's been two years, and I rode the KO2s on the East Coast (totally different conditions). However, it did notice that the ATIII hardly threw any gravel into the wheel wells, while my KO2s sounded like hail on gravel roads.
So, the AT IIIs went back to Discount Tire. This is where things go from bad to worse. The replacement insurance I bought covered the punctured and irreparable tire. But the other three... turns out Toyo's guarantee is a joke. Toyo refused to honor the satisfaction warranty because the tires were 'plus size' for my vehicle and not OEM. Who buys OEM sized off-road tires?? How about all the 34"+ size tires they sell? Not a non-commercial vehicle in the world I can think of that has OEM 34"+ tires! They also questioned my decision to air down 15% on gravel roads. Seriously?? Overall my experience with Toyo's customer service was very negative. Discount Tire tried to engage with them as well and also had a bad experience--so much so that they just ate the return and swore never to sell Toyo's again. Fortunately, DT took excellent care of me despite the condition of the tires. Can't say enough good things about those guys. Toyo on the other hand... epic fail. And as a footnote, 500 miles isn't really enough to get a good feel for tires.
