TIG or Bust...

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bmorefj40

bmorefj40

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10 Year 15 Year
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Location
Baltimore, MD
So, after a few years of garage welding, I finally had the time and money to take a welding class at a local trade school and pick up a few certs in MIG. Gives me some more confidence about what I'm doing and my projects can finally move from stationary objects to stuff that goes on my cruiser.

However, I was lucky enough to get a few days at the end to try out TIG and I must say that I am hooked....Now, I need a tig machine. I've been reading the welding forums on the side and looking on CL for a few years, but haven't pulled the trigger on anything. Well, that's all changed.

Here are the three machines that I've narrowed it down to:

1. USED Miller Syncrowave 200 (this is what I used in class). Really liked the feel of this machine. I most likely won't outgrow it, since it's an AC/DC machine and goes up to 1/4" no problems. Should be able to find one in the $1500 range possibly with a cooler too.


2. NEW Thermal Arc 201ST Inverter Stick/TIG. Only a DC machine, but does steel up to my needs. It's small/portable, has HF, and even with a foot pedal added, only a little over $1000
Thermal Arc® 201ST Inverter Stick/TIG Package No. W1003801 - PMwelding.com


3. NEW HTP Invertig 221 TIG Welder. Well, this is reaching, so it's a distant third, but let's say I come into some money, I would get this with the water cooler and be all in for $3k. Much more reasonable than a Dynasty, but might be still dreaming.
Invertig 221 TIG Welders, Invertig 221 TIG Welding Machine | USAWeld.com


Let's say aluminum capability is not an issue. Would you go with the used sync 200 or the new TA 201?

Thanks for your input and I promise to add photos from the welding class to my original 'show me your welds' thread once I get some time, but for now, I'm on the hunt for a tig machine.

Nick
 
AC/DC is the way to go!

I just went through this for my barn, I sell welders for a living so I have acess to all the major brands. Like you I have to watch my budget so I did a bunch of checking before I made my move.

If you are getting TIG you are missing the boat if you go DC only, the ability to weld aluminum is way worth if. You can save a bucnd of $$ if you go air-cooled and pass on the water-cooled option. I bought a Dynasty 200 with a generic air-cooled torch and am smiling everytime I fire it up. I thought I needed the water-cooled but after welding (a lot) on an aluminim boat for a month I'm convinced air-cooling is fine for me.

Miller has a Diversion line which is a cheaper version of the Dynasty, the pedal is smaller, the torch is hard wired in, and the operator screen is basic, but the guts are fairly similar making this a tough unit with a great AC/DC arc.

Diversionâ„¢ 180 - TIG - Miller

I would have gone with this unit over the Dynasty but I got lucky and found a factory reconditioned Dynasty 200 for a little more then the Diversion so i went with it. I have sold quite a few Diversions and everyone is real happy.

Now just to confuse the issue if portability is not an issue another unit I considered was the Lincoln 175 Precision TIG.
Square Wave TIG 175 TIG Welder
I sell a lot of these also and the arc is great especially the start at the bottom end. My customers that buy this unit want the heavier machine in their shop so it won't easily "walk away" on the second shift, the small Millers somehow ocasionally grow leggs and disappear.

I've checked out the Thermal machine and like it but I prefer the Miller and Lincoln for longevity. Plus I know I can get parts and have a a choice of places to fix it if someething happens to it.

Good luck and think let us know which way you go.
 
Thanks Danxcsp! I didn't really consider those two options and I think you're right about the AC capability. I think I was letting my wallet think more than my brain. I probably would be kicking myself a year or two from now if my machine couldn't do it.

I'll have to do some reading on the lincoln, because it does basically everything the sync does and new for $1750 is only a little more than I was planning for. Plus, a used unit should be really reasonable. Although, it's not quite portable, it does occupy a little less space than the sync and only weighs as much as me...
 
Welding aluminum is one of the main applications of TIG, so I think you would miss not having AC. DC TIG has its place, but for most work with steel, it is a slow process compared to MIG or stick. If you want to get involved for cheap, look for an older transformer based machine. I see these go for about the same price as an AC/DC buzz box or about $500. I have less than $500 in a Linde Heliarc HF250, fully set up. I use it mainly for stick welding, but it is really nice to do fine work on steel or weld aluminum. I bet it is still worth $500.
 
FWIW: After looking at Miller and Thermal Arc AC/DC inverter boxes I ended up with an HTP 221 with water cooled torch a couple months ago and am super happy with it...
 
Just a thought-
I have a 5yr old Dynasty 200DX that recently lost it's display - I mean, like totally dark ! I deal and have an account with a local supplier that has an authorized Miller repair station. It's been over 2wks with no word yet on repair cost or what exactly is wrong. It still welds fine, but no idea of what it's set at .
I had considered buying the HTP when I got the Miller. Always being a fan of blue I bit the bullet and paid the extra coin , but one thing that kept nagging me is the fact that HTP is right up there in Chicago, about 125 miles away. Their support is excellent and they can guide you through diagnostics over the phone with a simple volt/ohm meter. Replacement boards are supposedly easy to obtain too. That was a big plus but at the time the HTP was fairly new and unknown in reputation.....so I bought the Miller. I'm not knocking Miller at all, but my local supplier is busy and they are dropping the ball-it's costing me money.

Just something to think about...
Sarge
 
pin_head- that's a good idea, but did you spring for the HF box or just the torch and tank? I've looked at your option and considered "heavily", but most of the older machines I found were massive in size and in the 400lb+ range. I know the sync 200 and the squarewaves aren't small or light, but nothing a six pack, a friend, and an fj can't handle. But if the right combo came along, it would hard to turn it down, given I could find enough six packs and friends. just need to figure out what to kick out of the garage...

spressomon- i've really taken a hard look at those and if I could find the extra coin, I think that's the direction I would head. Most of the reviews I find are very favorable for quality and customer service. Just hard to justify the upfront cost for a hobby person like myself. I already used up my "it'll pay for itself over time" line on my wife when I bought the mig, plasma cutter, air compressor, bandsaw, drill press, etc... I think she's getting tired of hearing it. I know the equipment is the cheap part, the hobby is what gets ya...

weber-sarge- I see what you are saying and that's my biggest fear with the inverter machines. I know I'll probably be on a longer time line, since the use won't be daily, but that will probably put me out of warranty with almost any repair. It'll always be in the back of my head. I feel like the transformer machines, albeit heavier, could be passed down to my kids with hopefully smaller and fewer repair bills along the way.

I did some more reading and I think for my use and pocketbook, a gently used sync 200 or precision tig 225 might be where I am heading. any thoughts on those two? I have read weldtalk, practical machinest, garage journal, weldingweb, etc and they all have the same red vs blue thread in all of them. Overall, most people seem happy with either. Just don't know if there is anything I should be aware of if I see one on CL that I fancy.

Thanks for all the comments.
 
What do you guys think about the ESAB Heliarc 352? I can get this locally for a very reasonable price with cooler. But this sucker is big and super heavy. Plus, it looks like it draws power like none other. I have a 50amp breaker that I use for my welder and plasma cutter. Would it hurt to plug this thing into it as long as I'm not trying to weld much over 200amps? I inquired about the power factor correction kit which take some of the edge off, but I
l'll never get to WOT on this beast.

Specs are below.

ESAB Heliarc 352

AC/DC Rated output
@ 40 % Duty Cycle, 10 min base, AC or DC

For 208 vac, 60 Hz or 380 vdc 50 Hz, derate output by 10 % 280A @ 30V

Output Current Range
AC or DC 3 to 380 Amps
Open Circuit Voltage (maximum)
79 vac, 72 vdc
Net Weight
60 Hz models 432 lbs., 196 kg
50 Hz models 472 lbs., 214 kg

Dimensions
Width (both models) 18.75 in., 476.3 mm
Length (both models) 32.5 in., 825.5 mm
Height (both models) 25 in., 635 mm

Primary input voltage & current without power factor correction kit
230(208)/460 vac 1 ph., 60 Hz, 152(168)/76 Amps
230/460/575 vac 1 ph., 60 Hz, 152/76/61 Amps
220/400 (380-415) vac 1 ph., 50 Hz, 153/84(88-81) Amps

Primary input voltage & current with power factor correction kit
230(208)/460 vac 1 ph., 60 Hz, 110(122)/55 Amps
230/460/575 vac 1 ph., 60 Hz, 110/55/43 Amps
220/400 (380-415) vac 50 ph., 1 Hz, 112/58(61-56) Amps

Power Factor @ rated load
Without power factor correction kit 55 %
With power factor correction kit 76 %
 
I'd pass on the ESAB 352. That welder with power factor correction will consume lots of electricity while idling. I would look for a used syncrowave 250 over the sync 200.
 
no i couldn't, probably could get up to 60 amps given the existing wiring (it's 4 inches from my main box, could switch it out and feel comfortable with it). But if 60 amps won't get it going, then I probably would have to pass. any experience with running something this big on a smaller circuit? I know that I can't use this up to its capacity, but will it just plain not weld or weld well on a smaller circuit?
 
The big ESAB will probably run fine on 60A input power, but it just won't run full bore at 350A. It will be limited to about 250A. Make sure you can try it on a 60A circuit first.

I run my Linde 250 (Linde was bought by ESAB) off a 50A breaker and it trips the breaker above about 220A. Transformer units are big and heavy, but your friends won't ask to borrow them. They do consume a lot of current at idle, but you just turn them off when you are not welding.

ESAB is made in the US in Florence SC.
 
I run my Miller Shopmaster 300 on a 50A circuit with no issues. Ideally, it should be on a 100A circuit. I don't crank the amperage up to run single pass on 1" plate or anything.
 
Ok, I'll go check out the ESAB, but not running towards it.

Here's what I found today...

2 year old Sync 200 with torch, pedal, runner, etc for sale by my LWS (same place I bought my HH187 a few years ago). They took it in on trade and are offering it for sale on their showroom floor. Still sporting a 1 year warranty and a price of $1800 plus tax. I called a few welding supply houses today and found prices for a new sync 200 with runner kit ranged anywhere from $2250 (not too far off the internet prices) to $3300(double checked that we were talking about the same unit- laughed and hung up).

Is it worth it to
A) buy new with a full warranty for $2250
B) buy something from CL hopefully mildly used with no warranty for $1200-$1500
C) go with the option above and get something not too old, with a little bit or warranty left and pay something in the middle ($1800)

I appreciate all the comments and I think I'm learning towards the sync 200 just trying to figure out which way to go with this. I've never bought a used welder, so don't want buyer's remorse with this much money on the line. Everything I've read online makes me think I would be fine buying a unit from the 1960s and could probably still hand it down to my kids, but I don't know as much about the stuff made in the last few years.
 
I'd make them a reasonable offer with cash in hand...if that's the welder you want.
 
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