Thoughts on raising TLCA dues???

[JasonH]

One area you might consider to make the membership more valuable is obtaining more discounts for TLCA memebrs especially for parts purchasing. At a 10% discount 250.00 worth of parts purchases in a year pays for the membership. Thanks for listening.

That was my original point. If you're just looking to increase membership numbers I think this is a great way to get people in the door. Someone who is unfamiliar with TLCA could probably care less about Trails or events simply because they know nothing about them.
Use cost savings as the bait - everybody likes to save money. Then reel them in with the fun stuff.
Toyota dealer discounts are a great benefit. But I doubt we'll get Toyota corporate to recognize us. You have to convince your local dealer. We've got some local dealers that offer pretty good parts discounts. There's also a brand new dealership being built in my town. When it's done I'm heading over in the 40 with a stack of Trails I have saved up to talk to the parts manager and see what I can get negotiated.

 

[TRT2]

These are all very valid points raised by everyone. Kudos to all who have responded with sincere ideas. It is also encouraging to see open discussion and acceptance (if not agreement) of other ideas and viewpoints expressed.

Reading everyone's input and replies, made me realize how many of you are such good friends and how lucky I am to have met each of you personally at one time or another.

For me, that has been the largest benefit of my TLCA membership.

 

[Rzeppa]

What is the goal for TLCA as an organization?

From the bylaws:

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE AND AIMS

1. TLCA shall be non-profit in character.
2. Bring together and promote the interest of four wheeling.
3. Preserve and protect the history of the Land Cruiser.
4. Protecting as well as enjoying our country's natural resources.
5. Support local, state or area associations.
6. Educate our members and the public on land use and rights issues, responsible off highway behavior and the environment.

Ostensibly, these are the goals that are articulated in writing. IMO, numbers two and three are of the greatest interest to members and prospective members.

I was under the impression TLCA wanted to grow the organization through new membership and renewals with general membership and associate members.

That is a goal I fully support, and is implicitely part of my job as an IR.

Have we lost focus?

IMHO, yes to some degree.

Are the dues being increased to better support and fund Toyota Trails, advertising, promotions, BRC, and other land use issues?

No; the debate to raise dues has come around from time to time within the BOD over the years, kind of like the 2F vs. V8 threads come and go periodically. In this latest debate, it seems to me the catylist was that when our YTD P/L through May was distributed to the BOD, things didn't look as good as they have in the past and the "raise dues" discussion was started again, against a backdrop of years of struggling to get back to the 4000 membership mark.

Last year, we spent some money on some things we hadn't tried before, to try to boost membership. The particulars are detailed in the Trail Leader columns over the last year and a half. They didn't work. Another thing we voted up was to add more pages to Toyota Trails. This has cost extra money to print. We've had a number of issues this year with extra pages, I'm not sure who's noticed, but we've been getting an even better quality magazine through the first part of this year. We had a disruption in merchandise sales at the end of last year and beginning of this year, and merchandise sales are still not up to where they have been historically.

I will report that we are not in trouble financially...yet. The BOD is trying to do the responsible thing and make sure we stay out of trouble. Even with lower membership numbers and lower merchandise sales and margins, we are still in much better shape than we were at various times in the past, such as the beginning of 2001. Other members of the BOD believe that we need to raise dues to make sure we don't get in trouble. Among the arguments are that we haven't kept up with general inflation since the last dues increase over a decade ago, and on top of that, members are getting more for their money with a vastly better Toyota Trails and far more events than then. Those are valid arguments.

But, if you look at the budget versus actual, it's easy to see that we don't have to raise dues to get back where we want to be financially. We only need about 300-400 more members and we're right on track and the whole debate becomes moot. With better merchandise sales, we don't even need that many.

If it's through events with active members who participate as Kowboy mentioned above, are individual chapter's going to saddle up and initiate sanctioned runs and events in their neck of the woods? If this were the case, think of the renewals that Tony & Cindy had at the Rubithon and PMC swap meet. If every chapter participated and got involved, think of the potential for growth and overall funding. Why not have each chapter either host or partner up and assist another chapter with an event to generate funds and new membership to benefit the chapter(s) and/or TLCA?

I can certainly say that Rising Sun is trying to do our part. As many of you know, we have one of the biggest events every year with Cruise Moab, and this year we are adding a second event, the Rising Sun Rally. There will be about a half dozen of us manning a TLCA sign-up booth all day, and we're going to try to best the Rubithon count by a bunch!

Jacking the rates up through the roof and requiring atleast one run for all members regardless, just may be the final chapter in TLCA.

I totally agree with that, see my reply to Kowboy.

The bigger question is what does membership want or expect from TLCA?

That question has been around as long as I've been in TLCA. The answer (IMHO) is that there are many diverse members and many different things members want and/or expect from their TLCA membership. As anyone in a leadership position knows, you simply can't please everyone all the time, the best you can do is try to please as many as possible as much of the time as you can.

Happy cruisin'!

 

[MaddBaggins]

I think making event attendance mandatory at least once a year would be a wrong turn for the TLCA. If there were more events in more states that might be possible for most to attend, but I just don't see nearly 4000 people making at least one event every single year. I have been a member for 2 years now and am looking forward to attending my first event this fall. Circumstances in life have prevented me from going to any before now. Does that mean I'm not a member? Not everyone lives in the place the event takes place, for some there is a lot of travel involved in going to even the nearest event. For me thats a good 10 hour drive so I can attend the GGG this year, the nearest event to me. For those that believe attendance should be mandatory, I think thats more like what a LOCAL club should be, not an international club.
My .02 on that subject

 

[wesintl]

My .02 is raise it to $30 even. A couple of dollars is no big deal and it's an even number.

My .02 on merchandise is it sucks. I don't own any t shirts because the logo is on the front. I hate tshirts like that and I'm under the impression most other people do too. I don't mind a little logo on the front but the big ass TLCA logo on my chest is ghetto. The main page sucks too... http://www.costore.com/TLCA/welcome.asp. Matt's page is much better. I think it's time to go back to having someone run merchandise not a store. At a time when we had the big Capital Land Cruiser swap meets you could buy TLCA merchandise. That's not the case any longer and I believe that hurts sales too. At a TLCA Event you should be able to buy TLCA merchandise.

I think there are more things we can offer online as part of a benefit to members and I think Matt has done a great job with the website so far. It only encourages members to find out what's going on and the REAL fun that happens as a part of owners coming together.

Honestly I think if you look at other car clubs online we offer about the same, charge about the same and offer at least the same but probably more.

 

[FULLonNEWBIE]

I will jump in here with a thought. I bought the new FJ in June and joined TLCA. Still haven't been out on the trails yet for various reason. But I end up spend the majority of my internet time on FJcruiserforums.com. Its not that I don't like it here, its that over there I have learned so much about the cruiser cause everyone there is in the same boat I am in. just a huge knowledge base all over the country.

But if memberships are the issue and it sounds like they are, perhaps someone could become a little more active on that site. there is tremendous potential for growth with the new cruiser out. Grab the new people and bring them into the fold. A whole lot of folks are probably looking for locals to get out with.

Just my two cents

stats from fjcruiserforums.com
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Top Poster: Percy (2,751)

cost to join $0, just sayin'

 

[Hulk]

I originally joined TLCA because I wanted as much information about my newly-purchased, beat-up '75 FJ40 as I could get my hands on. And I wanted to meet people who knew about Cruisers and where to take them. In 1996 when I joined, TLCA provided the first part, Windy City Land Cruisers provided the second part.

The community aspect is more local chapter than national organization. Don't get me wrong: I like talking to Chef and Eric V. and Casey and Todd and Woody... but I drink beer and go wheelin' with Ige, Treeroot, Wes, Uncle Ben, Terry Holben, Hatfield, LexusBen, Romer, Nakman, Neil Quigley and a bunch of others.

I agree with Kowboy: the face-to-face interaction is far superior to anything else. However, disagree with Kowboy on this point: I don't get face-to-face interaction or expect it from TLCA. It's too big geographically. I'm going to go to Flat Nasty this year, and it will be my first ever event that wasn't organized by my local chapter. I'm also going to try to go to GGG, if the fates allow. And I'm in my 11th year of membership!

Personally, I'd rather see dues go down, so membership will go up. If we offered 6 issues of Trails + TLCA membership for $18/year, I bet we could recruit another 500 - 1000 people easy. Maybe this is a pipe dream -- we'd have to do the math to see how many members it would take to make this workable.

I'm sure TLCA was a much tighter knit community when we had 300 members and 90% of them lived in California.

Raising dues and making participation mandatory will kill TLCA. Those are the kind of requirements more suited to your local chapter. At Rising Sun, we won't even let you join until you've participated in one of our official club events, and our dues are $50. If you don't show up for runs/events/meetings, you don't get anything for your $50 except access to a seldom-used "members-only" section of our forum. So the people who are willing to pay the $50 are the same people who show up for stuff. It's a good formula for a local club, but a lousy one for the large, international organization.

What would happen if TLCA folded, from my perspective?
1. Rising Sun would still go on.
2. We'd probably still put on Cruise Moab.
3. People would know about Cruise Moab through the Internet, so we could still get the word out. Attendance might go down somewhat -- some folks wouldn't be able to register, since a few of our finest Cruiserheads are computer illiterate.
4. Many other events would continue, too. I could still go to events in other states.
5. I'd still be friends with people in other states, through relationships developed on the Internet and when one of us made the effort to attend an out-of-state event.
6. I'd really miss Toyota Trails.
7. I'd really miss those Thursday night BOD calls... hmmm, maybe not.

TLCA needs to be the #1 source of information for the Toyota 4WD community. Whether you're a n00b looking for parts sources or "how to" info, or you're a hard core guy looking for others to wheel with, information is key.

My $0.02 and much more.

 

[Hulk]

One last point: I'd rather see TLCA focus on providing good stuff to our current members than focusing on increasing membership. If we do a good job on making TLCA a great club to belong to, then membership will increase naturally anyway.

Sorry my thoughts are so scattered. Gotta get back to work.

 

[Kaderabek]

A couple of questions for you, Matt.

First, how would you recruit 500-1000 new members by lowering the cost of membership? Are you saying that there are 500-1000 people out there poised to join but don't over the cost differential of a six pack of beer? And even if this is the case, how do you get to these cheap bastards (er, people)?

Second, why is membership in Rising Sun worth twice that of membership in TLCA?

An observation as well -- it sounds to me like you don't really need TLCA. There's only one thing that you would miss if we folded. I find that really hard to believe. I don't mean that as a criticism, it's just hard for me to imagine that TLCA means so little to you.

Oh, you forgot one thing -- you'd lose your high paying TLCA webmaster job (and your health club privileges at our palatial office complex).

TJK

 

[JuttyShabango]

Just an idea from following this thread closely.

What about a referral program where current members could get a discount on their membership for getting 5 new TLCA members to join? Or some donated swag or something?

The members of the TLCA need to reach out to people instead of thinking the other way..the noob will find us.

How many of us know someone right now that would fit the club but hasn't joined? Or members that have lapsed?

I used to be apart of a fraternity in college back in the day and we hated Rush week at the house but realized it was critical for survival, not just dues, but fellowship and tradition. A Fall and Spring Membership drive could work with incentives to members that participate.

Could get 400 easy I would think with a huge push to the clubs on the importance of this to the clubs (TLCAs first line with the public)

just a thought.

 

[Rzeppa]

A couple of questions for you, Matt.

First, how would you recruit 500-1000 new members by lowering the cost of membership? Are you saying that there are 500-1000 people out there poised to join but don't over the cost differential of a six pack of beer? And even if this is the case, how do you get to these cheap bastards (er, people)?

Second, why is membership in Rising Sun worth twice that of membership in TLCA?

An observation as well -- it sounds to me like you don't really need TLCA. There's only one thing that you would miss if we folded. I find that really hard to believe. I don't mean that as a criticism, it's just hard for me to imagine that TLCA means so little to you.

Oh, you forgot one thing -- you'd lose your high paying TLCA webmaster job (and your health club privileges at our palatial office complex).

TJK

I'm not Matt but I have a couple answers to your questions. Rising Sun dues are split between $30 to Rising Sun, $10 for the State Association and $10 for United 4WD. Of the $30, the club buys $50 worth of raffle prizes every month, so at monthly meetings about 4-6 people walk away with some nice prizes. The $30/yr also buys pizza after runs and raffle prizes and food at our annual Christmas party and at our Swap meet. There's more, but hopefully you get the idea.

I don't know whether membership would go up that much if we lowered it, but it probably would some. I'll guarantee it'll go down if we raise it.

Cruise Moab would be tough to put on if we didn't have insurance through TLCA. I know, I looked into it when I was Commander (for non-TLCA club runs), every other alternative I found was WAY more expensive.

 

[Rzeppa]

What about a referral program where current members could get a discount on their membership for getting 5 new TLCA members to join? Or some donated swag or something?

We tried that, we ended up with a couple dozen referrals. That was among the various ideas we've tried which didn't get us what we were hoping for. It sounded like a good idea so we tried it, it just didn't work out.

 

[Rzeppa]

My .02 on merchandise is it sucks. I don't own any t shirts because the logo is on the front. I hate tshirts like that and I'm under the impression most other people do too. I don't mind a little logo on the front but the big ass TLCA logo on my chest is ghetto. The main page sucks too... http://www.costore.com/TLCA/welcome.asp. Matt's page is much better. I think it's time to go back to having someone run merchandise not a store. At a time when we had the big Capital Land Cruiser swap meets you could buy TLCA merchandise. That's not the case any longer and I believe that hurts sales too. At a TLCA Event you should be able to buy TLCA merchandise.

Wes, I agree that our merchandise *that you can see* is lacking. When we went to ANC from having Tony and Cindy stock it and fulfill orders, we were hoping that the ANC merchandise on demand would increase sales due a much bigger selection. Unfortunately nobody shops the 1000's of items you can get through ANC with the TLCA logo, because it's not obvious that it's there. I agree we did better in a lot of ways when we had everything in-house, including much better margins. But Tony and Cindy were ready to move on, and no one else wanted to step up and provide inventory and fullfilment for the paltry stipend we were paying them.

Anybody wanna step up?

 

[TRT2]

I would say the merchandise thing is an entirely different subject. The ANC thing was pushed by Jenn and Casey... and rather than create a huge issue, we simply said sure.

I stated the ramifications and the various merch. costs that supported other efforts, and effectively would not go away with merchandise. It is history now.

And... we made sure to move the logo to the back!

 

[wesintl]

I forgot to say thanks Tony and Cindy for the years of doing merchandise. I know it's PITA work.

From this page it's not really aparant that the logo is on the back http://tlca.org/merchandise/

also do we really think this pic is helping sales? Also white t-shirts??? The ash is "OK".. but white......

I dunno what sales were and are but personally I think alot could be gained from merchandise.

 

[Poser]

Just some quick thoughts…



I signed up back in 1992 because I was looking for information, both general and technical, specifically on Toyota Land Cruisers, and also, wanted to find more parts options than you could find in the monthly diapers. I have made this statement since I received my first Toyota Trails, and continue to say it today, the money spent on my TLCA membership has been, hands down, then best money I have ever spent on my Land Cruisers. The Trails newsletter is tangible reference material. The stories shared by the authors and the insightful technical information shared is second to none.



TLCA events are a good time but I fail to see how requiring attendance is going to somehow fix everything. This is a hobby to some, a way of life for a few and just another interest to most, and at the end of the day, it is centered on a ******* vehicle. Seems like this can easily get out of perspective. I have not ever understood excluding people that have a similar interest in something simply because they choose not to ‘keep up’ with the pace that seems to be set and accepted by the majority, or owned a different brand of vehicle.





The folks that are making an argument against raising the dues, I have to ask:



How long have you been a member?



Have you been a member long enough to remember reading the yellow trails?



Are you aware that the cost of publication, just like ANYTHING ELSE could possibly have increased in ten-plus years?



Do you really think that you are not getting AT LEAST 35.00us worth of information specific to your interest from this publication a year?




I have been paying for first class since 1996, iirc, and I am paid up till 2010, and will gladly send in money to pay any difference.


Increase the dues. I will pay it.

 

[Rzeppa]

I would say the merchandise thing is an entirely different subject.

I disagree in that, if merchandise sales would be back were they were, and margins would be back were they were, the May 2006 P/L that started the raising dues discussion would not have been started...

Happy cruisin'!

 

[Rzeppa]

I signed up back in 1992 because I was looking for information, both general and technical, specifically on Toyota Land Cruisers, and also, wanted to find more parts options than you could find in the monthly diapers. I have made this statement since I received my first Toyota Trails, and continue to say it today, the money spent on my TLCA membership has been, hands down, then best money I have ever spent on my Land Cruisers. The Trails newsletter is tangible reference material. The stories shared by the authors and the insightful technical information shared is second to none.

Same here!

TLCA events are a good time but I fail to see how requiring attendance is going to somehow fix everything. This is a hobby to some, a way of life for a few and just another interest to most, and at the end of the day, it is centered on a ******* vehicle. Seems like this can easily get out of perspective. I have not ever understood excluding people that have a similar interest in something simply because they choose not to ‘keep up’ with the pace that seems to be set and accepted by the majority, or owned a different brand of vehicle.

Agreed.

The folks that are making an argument against raising the dues, I have to ask:

How long have you been a member?

Not as long as you, only about ten and a half years. If I'da known about TLCA before that, woulda' been 26 years.

Have you been a member long enough to remember reading the yellow trails?

My B/W issues are getting yellow, does that count?

Are you aware that the cost of publication, just like ANYTHING ELSE could possibly have increased in ten-plus years?

As a matter of fact I visited American Web on June 22 while they were printing TT and got a nice tour and interviewed their VP. If it doesn't get published I'll share the photos and interview with the world wide web. But yes, very aware.

Do you really think that you are not getting AT LEAST 35.00us worth of information specific to your interest from this publication a year?

I think $25 USD is a very expensive magazine subscription for only 6 issues, and rationalize that since it is about a subject I am passionate about, and is written by my personal friends, it is worth it.

I have been paying for first class since 1996, iirc, and I am paid up till 2010, and will gladly send in money to pay any difference.

Increase the dues. I will pay it.

That's good to know; Poser, are you in a chapter? If not are you in my territory? The reason I ask is that it may be that this will come up for a vote at a BOD meeting. I have always put the sentiments of my constituents ahead of my personal viewpoints, whenever they are made known, and conflict. I was voted in to represent the folks who are not in a chapter in my territory, and give them a voice at the BOD level. If the majority of my constituents wants their dues to increase, then I will vote that way instead of the way I feel personally.

 

[treerootCO]

...

Just to go 'head and beat the damn dead horse one more time ...

TLCA EVENTS

... and no .... we don't need no more non-active members....

I have one question for Kowboy and not to pick on you just to agree with you and point out TLCA needs some help in this area.

Events are put together by the local chapters of TLCA. If TLCA is all about the events, why do we only have two!?! chapters celebrating TLCA's 30th anniversary? Taken directly from the new TLCA.org homepage

Rising Sun Rally
Sunday, Aug. 20 · Denver, CO
A show & shine meets swap meet event, with raffle prizes and cool Toyota-centric vendors.
More info | Sign up now

Get Flat Nasty
with Tornado Alley Cruisers
Sept. 28-30 · near Salem, MO.
A weekend of great family fun at FlatNasty Off-Road Park in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks. 4WD trails plus a big group dinner.
Forum discussion | Sign up now

TLCA members can do better than this I am a member of Rising Sun and am damn proud of it. We will have a TLCA signup booth at our rally.

 

[TUFFTORQ]

Well, I've only been a member of TLCA since 2004. Nope, I don't remember the yellow trails that's mentioned. I agree that publication rates have very likely and dramatically increased over the years. Nope, I do not think that I'm getting $35 bucks worth of specific Toyota information in the six issues that I receive. In fact, I think I've seen the same specific information online and in other publications such as 4wd Toyota Owner's Magazine, IH8MUD, PBB, TTORA etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like the chapter reports, articles, event coverage, and advertisments like the next guy. The problem is and if I'm not mistaken, Toyota Trails is an extremely large expense. Exceeding six figures this year? Wow! If this is why we want to increase dues, then I don't agree with an increase. Maybe consider publishing a newspaper or seek better rates, if it's that important.

It really sucks that we are so focused on Toyota Trails being published that we can't adequately support or fund the only recognized TLCA land use group, BRC. We as an organization didn't give more than a grand in '05? The budget for '06 is still under funded. Don't you think that as an organization we should be supporting BRC, FOTR, and other groups that campaign and fight to keep the very trails and forest's open that you want to have events held? Sierra Club and the other greeny geeks have how much money available to campaign and fight with? I think it surpasses our lack of efforts by a long shot. Without BRC's backing and efforts, I don't think that anyone would disagree that we may be a simple car club holding events in a city park if we don't contribute more. If this is why we want to increase the dues, then I do agree and support an increase. These are my own personal views and opinions.

Throwing all the cards on the table, I urge individual and chapter members to grab a copy of the P&L for actual numbers and come up with their own opinion.

Mark

Just some quick thoughts…



I signed up back in 1992 because I was looking for information, both general and technical, specifically on Toyota Land Cruisers, and also, wanted to find more parts options than you could find in the monthly diapers. I have made this statement since I received my first Toyota Trails, and continue to say it today, the money spent on my TLCA membership has been, hands down, then best money I have ever spent on my Land Cruisers. The Trails newsletter is tangible reference material. The stories shared by the authors and the insightful technical information shared is second to none.



TLCA events are a good time but I fail to see how requiring attendance is going to somehow fix everything. This is a hobby to some, a way of life for a few and just another interest to most, and at the end of the day, it is centered on a ******* vehicle. Seems like this can easily get out of perspective. I have not ever understood excluding people that have a similar interest in something simply because they choose not to ‘keep up’ with the pace that seems to be set and accepted by the majority, or owned a different brand of vehicle.





The folks that are making an argument against raising the dues, I have to ask:



How long have you been a member?



Have you been a member long enough to remember reading the yellow trails?



Are you aware that the cost of publication, just like ANYTHING ELSE could possibly have increased in ten-plus years?



Do you really think that you are not getting AT LEAST 35.00us worth of information specific to your interest from this publication a year?




I have been paying for first class since 1996, iirc, and I am paid up till 2010, and will gladly send in money to pay any difference.


Increase the dues. I will pay it.