Thoughts on raising TLCA dues???

[Hulk]

Pismojim: interesting and valid points, thanks for voicing them...But! As President, I get to say "don't just point out a problem, help us find as solution!"...
I think things like the PMC swap meet, and the Rising Sun Rally in September are great ideas for non-wheeling events that more members could participate in. TornadoAlley, my home chapter, had a float trip this weekend. Rising Sun does some neat "maintenance Parties."

Chef, Rising Sun Rally is in AUGUST. It's on August 20. Info may be found here:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/rally.asp

Just want to make sure that we don't lose attendees!

 

[MaddBaggins]

PismoJim

for the most part I see what you're saying, except if it hadn't been for the internet I would not have found TLCA or Copper State Cruisers or any cruiser friends in Tucson. The net is about the only thing that keeps us together down here in Southern AZ. Copper State Cruisers is growing well, in the Phoenix area. There is pretty much no interest in a club thing in Tucson. I've been trying for almost 2 years to get folks together and it just ain't happening. If I'm lucky I can get 3-4 rigs to come out for the monthy pizza joint meeting. Last month it was just me and my daughter. Which is funny, cause you can't hit the streets in Tucson without running into cruisers everywhere. I do the wave, I leave calling cards on rigs, I talk to people in parking lots, no interest. So the net keeps me connected to people who are interested and makes me feel like I'm a part of something.

 

[Rzeppa]

Chef, Rising Sun Rally is in AUGUST. It's on August 20.

LOL!!!

This is the same pres who used to call for meetings at 6:00PM Eastern and 9:00PM West coast time

 

[pismojim]

Pismojim: interesting and valid points, thanks for voicing them...But! As President, I get to say "don't just point out a problem, help us find as solution!"...

...what sort of non-wheeling events can we come up with to draw these folks more into the fold, and get them participating in face to face activities???

Alan, I'm working on it.


[edit] I forgot to mention how impressed I am with the extensive event calendar in the TT. There are more events, more different types of events and more geographic locations than I ever recall.

Support the events by participating! There aren't many excuses left.


Slogan of the week:
Have you waved at a Cruiser today?

 

[Ian Rogers]

Ok, I think that there is no need for this other than for the BOD wants to buy time. Is that in fact the case? I am being so blunt because other 4x4 magazines, off-road groups are duel members (both members of TLCA and their / mag- offroad groups). Is the BOD trying to delay the P&L report until after a dues increase? Its my under standing that the BOD would need to vote the P&L in to the TT so the members would not see this report until November/December well after the dues increases. Right?

There seems to be some concern by the BOD folks that posting this so that everyone and anyone could see it is maybe not a great idea... other off-road groups, other 4x4 magazines, and green groups don't need to see what we are doing... but we would like the members to see...

if it was in each TT would that work?

we could do a "members only" web section too... but then passwords and changing them becouse an issue...

we will keep working on it...

thanks!

 

[TUFFTORQ]

Ian,

Trail Crew at our last meeting and other local chapter's have not voted or approved an increase in dues. Our delegate and chapter BOD can vouch for that, right? I think the BOD is still evaluating and looking at ideas and suggestions before pulling the trigger. I bet if you called or requested a copy from TLCA directly, they would provide a copy of the P&L to satisfy your needs. I don't think there's a hidden agenda by any means. Ask and you shall receive...

Mark

Ok, I think that there is no need for this other than for the BOD wants to buy time. Is that in fact the case? I am being so blunt because other 4x4 magazines, off-road groups are duel members (both members of TLCA and their / mag- offroad groups). Is the BOD trying to delay the P&L report until after a dues increase? Its my under standing that the BOD would need to vote the P&L in to the TT so the members would not see this report until November/December well after the dues increases. Right?

 

[Rzeppa]

Ok, I think that there is no need for this other than for the BOD wants to buy time. Is that in fact the case? I am being so blunt because other 4x4 magazines, off-road groups are duel members (both members of TLCA and their / mag- offroad groups). Is the BOD trying to delay the P&L report until after a dues increase? Its my under standing that the BOD would need to vote the P&L in to the TT so the members would not see this report until November/December well after the dues increases. Right?

That is incorrect, and there is no coupling of the two issues. They are separate. There is one debate going on within the BOD regarding raising dues, and arguments on both sides have been raised. To further muddy the dues increase issue, it has been suggested that we do away with bulk mailing and make everyone first class. As Individual Representative, I am on record opposing an increase, and against taking away the bulk mailing option.

Separately, it has been suggested that we publish the P&L on the TLCA web site. We have no problem whatsoever with allowing current members to see our current P&L, nothing to hide there. But I, and most others on the BOD feel that this is private information for TLCA members only and it doesn't belong on the world wide web where anyone in the world can see it. Historically, TLCA finances are published in Toyota Trails for members only. Further, if any member wishes to see our P&L, all they need to do is ask their Chapter Delegate or Individual Representative and we will be happy to provide it. Just ask...

Happy cruisin'!

 

[Kaderabek]

Historically, TLCA finances are published in Toyota Trails for members only.

Not any time recently. I'm happy to do it though.

TJK

 

[Behemoth60]

Peter's Ideas

I understand Chef's proposal, but it's an overly simplified and wrong solution to a much larger problem. Flat membership and budget shortfalls are not caused by membership dues being too low. They're caused by a lack of meaning of the TLCA to the average Cruiser-head.

Pismo Jim's ideas cut to the core of being a Cruiser head, but I am afraid they dont' really help the TLCA renew it's meaningfulness to a Cruiser head in a wired world. I truly beleive that the essence of this hobby, and the friendships surrounding it, are the person to person interactions. But the internet facilitates this, and getting together does not build TLCA membership, and the internet does more to get people together than the TLCA.

An organization dependant on face to face meetings will always limit membership numbers for simple geographic reasons. Furthermore, you don't need to be a TLCA member to go to the majority of Land Cruiser events, so why do you need to join? We won't be checking membership cards at our local run next weekend, or on Labour day, or in October, or December... Someone has already said that the onset of the Internet is why the TLCA is as big as it is today. It's not because of the local face to face events. The Internet helps people get together. The TLCA does not.

Here's THE question. Why do we need the TLCA anymore? What reason is there for joining? Why does the TLCA need more members? Is it merely for cash to continue to support the Trails? Or do we need a large user base to support our advocacy efforts? As near as I can tell, there are only 2 reasons to join the TLCA, and only one that anyone knows about...

1) The Trails
2) Event Insurance

The vast majority of our club in Calgary has never been to a TLCA event.. even our own TLCA Sanctioned event... the River Shiver. $225 for a weekend of wheeling is a bit too stiff for some of our local members. The majority have no intention of ever travelling more than a 2 hours to an event, let alone the minimum of 20 hours it takes to get to the next closest TLCA event to Calgary.

So, essentially, TLCA membership equals a Trails Subscription.

I offer three options for the survival of the TLCA.

1. Make the TLCA more meaningful than just the Trails. Actually DO some advocacy for land access, or get Toyota to offer a SFA option in the FJ, or get them to actually sell a Land Cruiser in Canada, or bring the 70 series to N.A. That would be meaningful. Maybe work on some trail projects to ensure the future of wheeling, or fight to keep a trail open. These are all good reasons to support the TLCA. Paying annual dues to Blue Ribbon and UFWD ease the concience, but are really meaningless.

2. Spin the Trails off into a publically sold magazine that stands on its own. Offer it through subscription, and on newstands. If this is all people really like and want, then really make it available by removing this 'membership' barrier to get it. Then, disolving the now meaningless TLCA becomes a very real option.

3. Make TLCA.org the defacto home-page and first stop for Cruiser-heads by compiling, summarizing, and otherwise making available every tidbit of on-line cruiser lore available to every member. Forums are awkward and difficult to search, and have terrible archives, and there's too many of them for somone like me to keep up with. Even the LCML archives are difficult to use and have archaic search syntax. This would be a significant resource and value-add for members, and many may join just for this service. The fact that this forum isn't even on a tlca.org address is indicative of how poorly we're doing in this way. There's a ton that a couple of clever developers could do with a small budget other than make the latest coffee mug available for sale.

4. OK, there is always the fourth option, which is do nothing. In my opinion, this is what a 'price increase' essentially is. It makes the TLCA a bit more elitist, a bit less accessable, and a bit less meaningful, and will hasten the inevitable conclusion that this is heading towards. As nice as the Trails is while sitting on throne, it offers nothing that cannot be found elsewhere right here on 'mud.... pictures, stories, advice, opinions, and even an international and very specific special interest appeal such as Diesel and even JDM RHD import trucks! But 'mud does it in real time, for free, and with many of the same personalities that you find in Trails.

I would personally like to see the TLCA do some of options 1, 2, and 3. I'd pay more for that.

Tough love, I am sure, but the TLCA needs some radical changes. Increased dues are not the solution to flat memberhsip and budget shortfalls.

Peter Straub

 

[woody]

3. Make TLCA.org the defacto home-page and first stop for Cruiser-heads by compiling, summarizing, and otherwise making available every tidbit of on-line cruiser lore available to every member. Forums are awkward and difficult to search, and have terrible archives, and there's too many of them for somone like me to keep up with. Even the LCML archives are difficult to use and have archaic search syntax. This would be a significant resource and value-add for members, and many may join just for this service. The fact that this forum isn't even on a tlca.org address is indicative of how poorly we're doing in this way. There's a ton that a couple of clever developers could do with a small budget other than make the latest coffee mug available for sale.

As a take off on that, TLCA and IH8MUD.com, LLC talked at length about the management time of it's own forum...part of that revolved around my reluctance in "giving up" the existing club participants in the Clubhouse, part of that was their recognition that owning/operating a forum is a chunk of time...plus lots of other stuff...part of the advantage of having an "outside contractor" run the forum is it removes a large portion of the blame/responsibility from TLCA in dealing with trolls, problem users, etc...I suspect a TLCA member would be quite displeased, vocally, if their actions got them banned (right or wrong, perception does wonders)

No reason to reinvent the wheel...however...

http://www.tlcaforum.com will "someday" be it's own....I say that tentatively, because the next major version of vBulletin software is only in discussion stages, but one of the big features that's being discussed is the ability to run one database and one user base for two separate forums...keeping many things linked, yet doing a better job of maintaining the look/feel/URL settings that make them appear independant. Rumor has it that vBulletin 4.0 will have that ability... I know 3.6.0 (released late last week) does not...that version will be installed here in mid-Sept (as a note, most ".x.0" upgrades take about 20 hours of prep work...or more...my plan is a weekend in Sept to get the super secret hidden testing forum software/database up and working, then do the work to the live forum the following weekend)

(how'z that for a hyjack?? - feel free to start a new thread...lol)

If you haven't, check out the new TLCA.org home page...some new kewl feature on there, including updated RSS feeds for TLCAforum.com traffic.... (including, likely, this post...lol)

 

[JuttyShabango]

Putting TT out for regular sale would be HUGE IMO on getting people interested in the TLCA.

There are 2 mags I look forward too and that's 4wd Toyota Owners Mag and Trails. The rest are crap IMO. Eye Candy at best.

What is needed IMO, is for the TLCA to branch out or Reach Out to other Toyota Owners. We have recently written bylaws for our club's reorganization to include Tacoma's, Minis, Runners, Lexus and used a name "Buckeye Birfield Syndicate" that would appeal to any Toyota Owner with enuff knowledge to recognize what a Birfield is...and identify with it.

The new FJ has brought public attention to our club and a renewed interest by some and totally NEW interest by many who purchase one looking for an affiliation.

But the growth has to come at the grass roots level. Each club should be holding an event at least once per year that would encorage new members to check them out. Cookouts, wrench a thons, truck washes, volunteer work..anything. 30 days from now, our club is having a Crawdad Boil and each member is instructed to bring a potential member with them to "check us out" and hopefully join.

Survival thru the ages is going to take an open mind, dedicated members and a willingness to change. Clubs are almost tribal in their nature and that comes from Face to Face interactions like most have pointed out. Problem is..putting down the key board and getting off your ARSE and doing it and that must start with the individual clubs..even more than the individual members.

Our club's reorganization is attracting new members that don't have FJs...simply because we have reached out to them and worked hard to get them to understand that the TLCA has something to offer them even though they don't have an FJ. TTORA is facing a similiar thing and has opened their doors to more than Tacomas. The TLCA has the rich history behind it giving it the benefit. What hardcore toyota owner hasn't heard about the TLCA? Not many...but many are surprised to hear their's something in the club for them and they dig the ORGANIZATIONAl STRUCTURE...something I haven't seen in any other club.

Solution: Attract new members and target all Toyota Owners.

How: Sell TT on the newstands is a good start. And get the bandwagon rolling at the club level.

I realize this may be oversimplified response and I'm a noob (since 2005) but have known about the TLCA for years and just sharing a perception..

Mark

 

[Kaderabek]

Hire me and my staff full time, give us sufficient seed money and I can put Toyota Trails on the newsstand.

TJK

 

[KOWBOY]

My turn to be blunt Folks.

[Editorial note: The following comments and beliefs represent the thoughts of a single, simple-minded individual and NOT those of the TLCA BOD as a whole. ]

I understand Chef's proposal, but it's an overly simplified and wrong solution to a much larger problem. Flat membership and budget shortfalls are not caused by membership dues being too low. They're caused by a lack of meaning of the TLCA to the average Cruiser-head.

I'm thinkin' we need to be jackin' up the dues ... alot more than Chef wants to. Flat membership ain't the problem ... hell, I think we got too many members right now. Too many Folks that ain't goin' to events. Any member that attends events has got a meanin' for TLCA.

Pismo Jim's ideas cut to the core of being a Cruiser head, but I am afraid they dont' really help the TLCA renew it's meaningfulness to a Cruiser head in a wired world. I truly beleive that the essence of this hobby, and the friendships surrounding it, are the person to person interactions. But the internet facilitates this, and getting together does not build TLCA membership, and the internet does more to get people together than the TLCA.

I disagree that the internet facilitates genuine person to person interactions ... it's a damn-poor substitue for sittin' 'round a campfire drinkin' a few beers. Internet datin' services have proven this pretty well. You think you got yourself a relationship .... until you actually meet 'em and find out you actually can't get along worth a fawk.

And gettin' together sure as hell has built The White Trash up ...

I don't believe TLCA was ever meant to be an internet club ... it was formed and built on Folks gettin' together .... in person.

An organization dependant on face to face meetings will always limit membership numbers for simple geographic reasons. Furthermore, you don't need to be a TLCA member to go to the majority of Land Cruiser events, so why do you need to join? We won't be checking membership cards at our local run next weekend, or on Labour day, or in October, or December... Someone has already said that the onset of the Internet is why the TLCA is as big as it is today. It's not because of the local face to face events. The Internet helps people get together. The TLCA does not.

That's why we have Chapters ... to have face to face meetin's in geographic areas.

TLCA sanctioned events .... according to the SOPs ... require TLCA membership ... that's why you need to join. Club runs are great .... but they ain't the TLCA sanctioned events which make TLCA special.

The internet has done nothin' but water down TLCA with members that don't participate in events. Maybe somebody needs to start up a seperate Toyota Internet Club for these Folks ... so we can return TLCA to an event-based club.

Here's THE question. Why do we need the TLCA anymore? What reason is there for joining? Why does the TLCA need more members? Is it merely for cash to continue to support the Trails? Or do we need a large user base to support our advocacy efforts? As near as I can tell, there are only 2 reasons to join the TLCA, and only one that anyone knows about...

1) The Trails
2) Event Insurance

Just to go 'head and beat the damn dead horse one more time ...

TLCA EVENTS

... and no .... we don't need no more non-active members.

The vast majority of our club in Calgary has never been to a TLCA event.. even our own TLCA Sanctioned event... the River Shiver. $225 for a weekend of wheeling is a bit too stiff for some of our local members. The majority have no intention of ever travelling more than a 2 hours to an event, let alone the minimum of 20 hours it takes to get to the next closest TLCA event to Calgary.

So, essentially, TLCA membership equals a Trails Subscription

Damn shame sir ... your Folks are missin' the boat.

I offer three options for the survival of the TLCA ...

And I offer ONE.

TLCA is not an internet club ...

TLCA is not a magazine club ...

TLCA is an EVENT club.

Jack the dues thru the friggin' roof to weed out the non-participatin' wanna-be's and make attendance at a minimum of one TLCA-sanctioned event per year mandatory.

... and as I stated in post #9 ...

Let the chips fall where they may.

Thank you ... and I assure you my opinions are not meant to upset anybody or directed at any specific individual.

There just my opinions. Simple enuff.

 

[woooody]

I understand Chef's proposal, but it's an overly simplified and wrong solution to a much larger problem. Flat membership and budget shortfalls are not caused by membership dues being too low. They're caused by a lack of meaning of the TLCA to the average Cruiser-head.

You know what they say -- there's lies, fricking lies, and statistics. I don't think membership is flat, so much as it is that our members don't renew enough. We have a lot of turnover. The real question is why are we losing so many people. It's unfortunate that you think that TLCA lacks meaning.

Pismo Jim's ideas cut to the core of being a Cruiser head, but I am afraid they dont' really help the TLCA renew it's meaningfulness to a Cruiser head in a wired world. I truly beleive that the essence of this hobby, and the friendships surrounding it, are the person to person interactions. But the internet facilitates this, and getting together does not build TLCA membership, and the internet does more to get people together than the TLCA.

I think Kowboy addressed this best -- Internet is not FACE to FACE. It's a virtual meeting. Reality is usually better.

An organization dependant on face to face meetings will always limit membership numbers for simple geographic reasons. Furthermore, you don't need to be a TLCA member to go to the majority of Land Cruiser events, so why do you need to join?

That's simply not true. You must be a member to attend santcioned and sponsored runs. If it's a hosted or sanctioned event, it's for TLCA members only. IF it's a limited event, it's only for that Chapter's members which should be TLCA members.

Obviously, enforcement is up to the hosting club.

From the SOP's

EVENTS DESCRIPTION

1. Hosted Event: The Rubithon is an annual event hosted by TLCA and co-hosted by Association Chapters. The event serves two purposes: to provide family type entertainment and to raise funds for TLCA's General Fund. Chapters that co-host the event shall receive a percentage of the proceeds.
2. Sanctioned Event: An event hosted by a Chapter in which TLCA members participate in a trail ride type event. The event serves to raise funds for the chapter's general fund. Chapters that host a sanctioned event agree to give TLCA a percentage of the net proceeds.
3. Open Event: A trail ride type event hosted by a Chapter which is not TLCA Member or vehicle specific. The event serves to raise funds for the chapter's general fund. Chapters that host an open event agree to give TLCA a percentage of the net proceeds.
4. Rally Event: An event hosted by a Chapter in which TLCA members participate in a non-trail ride type event. This event may be a swap meet, truck show, etc. The event serves to raise funds for the chapter's general fund. Chapters that host a rally event agree to give TLCA a percentage of the net proceeds.
5. Restricted Event: An event hosted by a Chapter in which TLCA Members participate in a trail ride type event where the vehicle type is restricted to specific models. The event serves to raise funds for the chapter's general fund. Chapters that host a restricted event agree to give TLCA a percentage of the net proceeds.
6. Limited Event: An event hosted by a Chapter in which chapter members and friends participate in a trail ride type event. This is not a paid event; its purpose is to provide access to TLCA insurance for special chapter events.

We won't be checking membership cards at our local run next weekend, or on Labour day, or in October, or December... Someone has already said that the onset of the Internet is why the TLCA is as big as it is today. It's not because of the local face to face events. The Internet helps people get together. The TLCA does not.

Wow -- Peter... I'm really confused here. Maybe you've forgotten how we've all been brought together. A big part of it was Gary Bjork's LCML. Ya know who funds LCML? birfield.com and tlca.org I would say that TLCA has done a LOT to bring people together

4. OK, there is always the fourth option, which is do nothing. In my opinion, this is what a 'price increase' essentially is. It makes the TLCA a bit more elitist, a bit less accessable, and a bit less meaningful, and will hasten the inevitable conclusion that this is heading towards. As nice as the Trails is while sitting on throne, it offers nothing that cannot be found elsewhere right here on 'mud.... pictures, stories, advice, opinions, and even an international and very specific special interest appeal such as Diesel and even JDM RHD import trucks! But 'mud does it in real time, for free, and with many of the same personalities that you find in Trails.

I would personally like to see the TLCA do some of options 1, 2, and 3. I'd pay more for that.

Tough love, I am sure, but the TLCA needs some radical changes. Increased dues are not the solution to flat memberhsip and budget shortfalls.

Peter Straub

I know you're serious with this Peter, and I know our Canadian Cruiserheads have always felt slighted by the States, but this is very troubling to me. It seems like you've given up on TLCA. There are many resources that you've provided to LCML, and TLCA, and there are friends and info that you have because of LCML and TLCA. Sure, there's a chance that you would have met Mark Whatley in Alaska, or Mudrak in Sonoma, or Henry C in all the places you've run into him. But to say that TLCA is no longer viable? geez. I'm sorry you have that opinion.

I think you might have missed some of our work with BRC, or Rubithon's donation to FOTR and Del Albright. Maybe we need to play that horn a lot louder. The message isn't getting through.

 

[TUFFTORQ]

What is the goal for TLCA as an organization? I was under the impression TLCA wanted to grow the organization through new membership and renewals with general membership and associate members. Have we lost focus? Are the dues being increased to better support and fund Toyota Trails, advertising, promotions, BRC, and other land use issues?

If it's through events with active members who participate as Kowboy mentioned above, are individual chapter's going to saddle up and initiate sanctioned runs and events in their neck of the woods? If this were the case, think of the renewals that Tony & Cindy had at the Rubithon and PMC swap meet. If every chapter participated and got involved, think of the potential for growth and overall funding. Why not have each chapter either host or partner up and assist another chapter with an event to generate funds and new membership to benefit the chapter(s) and/or TLCA?

Jacking the rates up through the roof and requiring atleast one run for all members regardless, just may be the final chapter in TLCA.

The bigger question is what does membership want or expect from TLCA?

 

[Rzeppa]

TLCA is not an internet club ...

TLCA is not a magazine club ...

TLCA is an EVENT club.

Jack the dues thru the friggin' roof to weed out the non-participatin' wanna-be's and make attendance at a minimum of one TLCA-sanctioned event per year mandatory.

I respectfully disagree my friend. TLCA is all three. It is a club of Toyota 4x4 enthusiasts, whether by internet, by dead tree or by wheeling and wrenching together in person.

Jack up the dues through the roof and I QUIT. And so will most of membership. Say goodbye to Toyota Trails. Say goodbye to TLCA.org. And say goodbye to sanctioned events, because most of them will be gone too. Hard to attend one when they no longer exist...

Mud will still be here...oh, that's right, that's internet :-O

Toyota Owners mag will still be here...oh, that's right, that's a magazine :-O

How will I find out about a big event?

Sure ain't gonna be sittin' around the campfire. That's what it was when TLCA was 300 members. I'll find out through the internet and reading about it on dead trees. And if I couldn't make it because I had to work, I'll read about it...on the internet and on dead trees.

There's a heck of a lot more to TLCA than wheeling at events.

 

[pismojim]

Here's THE question. Why do we need the TLCA anymore? What reason is there for joining? Why does the TLCA need more members? Is it merely for cash to continue to support the Trails? Or do we need a large user base to support our advocacy efforts?

So what is the reason for joining?

If I had a nickel for everytime time I've been asked that question...

Wooody, the most I glean from your post is:

our work with BRC, or Rubithon's donation to FOTR and Del Albright.

Do you really think that is going to get people excited about joining TLCA? It be more efficient to simply join and/or donate directly to BRC or FOTR?

It seems to be a pretty weak reply to "Why join?" Seriously brother, I suspect you can articulate a better sales pitch. (I'll give you a possible one below...)

TLCA is not an internet club ...

TLCA is not a magazine club ...

TLCA is an EVENT club.

Jack the dues thru the friggin' roof to weed out the non-participatin' wanna-be's and make attendance at a minimum of one TLCA-sanctioned event per year mandatory.

And, TLCA is not a land use or polictical advocacy club.

TLCA is a car club. Make that a die hard, to the bone, cruiserhead club. Members are required to own a 4WD Toyota, maybe that's not enough.

So jack 'em up, only accept dues in cash, face to face, at events. It could work, 3 digit membership numbers, fanatic cruiserheads - I'll be there with ya Kowboy.

OK, Ross here's that reason:

Join TLCA and you can debate these issues (and hey, even talk Cruiser Tech), sitting around the campsite, with such personalities as Kowboy, Behemonth60, Woooody, etc.

Of course that would mean PAR-TIC-I-PA-TION at events.

If this is the case, think of the renewals that Tony & Cindy had with PMC through the Rubithon and swap meet.

Me too.

It doesn't get any more TLCA than that.

Members MUST attend meetings or events. Must be present to WIN.

 

[Rzeppa]

What is the goal for TLCA as an organization? I was under the impression TLCA wanted to grow the organization through new membership and renewals with general membership and associate members. Have we lost focus? Are the dues being increased to better support and fund Toyota Trails, advertising, promotions, BRC, and other land use issues?

If it's through events with active members who participate as Kowboy mentioned above, are individual chapter's going to saddle up and initiate sanctioned runs and events in their neck of the woods? If this were the case, think of the renewals that Tony & Cindy had at the Rubithon and PMC swap meet. If every chapter participated and got involved, think of the potential for growth and overall funding. Why not have each chapter either host or partner up and assist another chapter with an event to generate funds and new membership to benefit the chapter(s) and/or TLCA?

The bigger question is what does membership want or expect from TLCA?

TUFFTORQ: Let me reiterate my position. As TLCA Individual Representative, I have NEVER had any individual contact me and ask me to raise their TLCA dues. And I am 100% sure, if I asked any of them "Would you like to pay more for what you are already getting", the answers would split between they wouldn't mind, and no they wouldn't. I am DEAD SET AGAINST raising dues. When GM wasn't selling as many cars, did they raise their prices?

I have seen our budget for the many years I've been on the board. We're not hurting too bad, and in fact if we had a little over 300 new members we'd be over 4000 members and ahead of budget. There is no RATIONAL reason to raise dues. The logical business strategy is to simply increase membership a bit, along with some more merchandise sales. 10% membership increase is VERY achievable. My fellow Rising Sun members and I intend to beat Tony and Cindy's number at the Rising Sun Rally weekend after next. All we need is a few more folks workin' it like they did and there is no need to raise dues whatsoever.

Apologize for not answering your questions directly; it's late and I wanted to make a point that others in this thread are missing. Your's seemed the best post to reply to with your question about why we are considering raising dues. I'll get back to specific answers to your questions tomorrow...

Disclaimer: I am only one member of the BOD, and some others on the BOD have different views. I wanted my argument against raising dues out here in public; we've been around and around this within the BOD.

Happy cruisin'!

 

[pismojim]

I respectfully disagree my friend. TLCA is all three. It is a club of Toyota 4x4 enthusiasts, whether by internet, by dead tree or by wheeling and wrenching together in person.

Jack up the dues through the roof and I QUIT. And so will most of membership. Say goodbye to Toyota Trails. Say goodbye to TLCA.org. And say goodbye to sanctioned events, because most of them will be gone too. Hard to attend one when they no longer exist...

Jeff, I'm not sure you disagree. First, you've confirmed Peter's point about the two reasons, 1) Trails 2) Insurance. Set those aside for a second and consider "why join". I think you're another one (like Wooody) to articulate a good answer. I just haven't heard it yet.

Even if you QUIT, you'll still hear about events (albeit non-sanctioned uninsured events) on the Internet. You'll donate to BRC. You'll have 4WD Toyota mag to read. The info on TLCA.org will be found or hosted elsewhere.

So what will you be missing?

Hint: I suspect it envolves "wheeling and wrenching together in person".

P.S. Jeff, good point on your reason against raises dues. It seems like there are two threads going on at once here. Still, what will you be offering the new recruits at the RS Rally?

Thanks,

 

[Tencup]

Thought I would put my 2 cents in. The reason I joined TLCA some 7-8 years ago was two fold. I wanted the magazine and I wanted to participate in TLCA events. The fact that some vendors offer discouts to TLCA members was a plus. Another factor for me is that by being a TLCA memebr it gives me a connection to a great bunch of people and cruiserheads. I consider $25.00 reasonable and have no problem with a dues increase.
One area you might consider to make the membership more valuable is obtaining more discounts for TLCA memebrs especially for parts purchasing. At a 10% discount 250.00 worth of parts purchases in a year pays for the membership. Thanks for listening.