Thoughts on LC250 Remote Touring Capacities

[TWILLY]

GX550 owners manual is available under the Lexus.com ‘Resources’. GX550 payload is tied to wheel size and ranges from 1,235lb for 22” to 1,410lb for 20” to 1,545lb for 18”. Those low profile sidewalls come with a price. I’m happy with the OT payload rating. I do see they have not reflected the 9K lb towing update in the owners manual.

I’ve owned a K2500 Suburban (8.1L Vortec!!!) and that was the right vehicle when I needed monster payload/towing capacity at that time of life.

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Thanks for digging that up and posting it. I agree that 1545 lbs is a decent payload capacity.

 

[TWILLY]

Every vehicle has big trade-offs. It’s a teetering balance between:

1. Price
2. Size
3. Power
4. Strength
5. Weight
6. Fuel economy
7. Range
8. Load capacity
9. Off-road ability (for 4WD vehicles)
10. Interior niceties
11. Easy to work on
12. Looks
13. Ride quality

No vehicle ever made has ever been perfect in all those respects. Gotta sacrifice one to gain another.

Lots of guys here want the perfect (Homer Simpson) Landcruiser — and unfortunately it’s impossible to make one that does everything.

There’s going to be trade-offs to reach a goal that Toyota has set. They may not be what all of us want — but if we got what we wanted, we’d be driving Homer Simpson trucks.

I tend to agree, but then I review specs for the 2024 70 series wagons and I am reminded how much more is possible in terms of capacities and efficiency. There’s more to the picture than trade-offs; there’s also a chronic indifference to providing the US market higher capacity utilitarian spec SUVs, as are wildly popular in other markets, as would be here too, and as the US market sees with trucks.

 

[OSS]

….there’s also a chronic indifference to providing the US market higher capacity utilitarian spec SUVs, as are wildly popular in other markets, as would be here too, and as the US market sees with trucks.

My suspicion is that the indifference would be US buyers test driving a 2024 LC 76 wagon that has a V8 diesel and 5 speed manual transmission - along with vinyl upholstery or cloth.
The LC 76 (70 GXL) would likely get laughed off the dealers lot by typical US buyers (as in WTF?).

Granted while myself and other LC enthusiasts would love to have a 2024 70 series, we aren’t that big of a buying force for Toyota to even consider.

 

[M1911]

My suspicion is that the indifference would be US buyers test driving a 2024 LC 76 wagon that has a V8 diesel and 5 speed manual transmission - along with vinyl upholstery or cloth.
The LC 76 (70 GXL) would likely get laughed off the dealers lot by typical US buyers (as in WTF?).

Agreed. It isn’t just the level of equipment that I think would result in poor sales — the NVH, ride, and handling would not be favored by most SUV buyers.

 

[TWILLY]

My suspicion is that the indifference would be US buyers test driving a 2024 LC 76 wagon that has a V8 diesel and 5 speed manual transmission - along with vinyl upholstery or cloth.
The LC 76 (70 GXL) would likely get laughed off the dealers lot by typical US buyers (as in WTF?).

Granted while myself and other LC enthusiasts would love to have a 2024 70 series, we aren’t that big of a buying force for Toyota to even consider.

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You’re missing my point. I’m not arguing for a 70 per se, though I’d buy two. I’m arguing for higher-capacity, more utility-spec Land Cruisers — like the kind we used to get in the US market before luxury barges like the 200 that actually were, quite literally, laughed off the lot.

 

[Jetboy]

I think Toyota would say, "You want overland, we gave you overland. Why would you want a midsize suv as an overland platform in north america?"

I'd still like a midsize HD platform. Very frustrating it's continuously withheld from our market. Definitely an intentional choice. But if I were going to live in it for extended trips, I'd build a tundra not a midsize SUV. Maybe a Taco if it was only for 1 or 2 adults.

 

[Rednexus]

I concur with the assessment that the 70 would not sell well here. The best selling SUVs are the ones that look "cool" - Wrangler, Bronco, and even the 4Runner. Most never see an unpaved road. I think the 70 looks great; most folks don't (to them it would look like a fleet or government vehicle - which honestly it kind of is) and would pick a Wrangler or a Bronco over a 70. I'm betting it's also short on the infotainment/comfort/fluff features as well; that would further restrict it's appeal to midlife-crisis suburbanites who want to look cool and drive them even more to the Bronco/Wrangler.

BTW - as I'm turning 40 this year - a DIY-built GX470 is actually a pretty awesome midlife crisis vehicle

 

[M1911]

I concur with the assessment that the 70 would sell well here.

I don’t agree. I think most of the desire for one is due to wanting things that you can’t have and that most people who say they want one would change their mind if they drive one. They are very agricultural with bad NVH and little room inside.

And, of course, they couldn’t be sold here without a full redesign due to crash safety regulations and Toyota hasn’t done a full redesign of the 70 since it was introduced.

 

[Rednexus]

I don’t agree. I think most of the desire for one is due to wanting things that you can’t have and that most people who say they want one would change their mind if they drive one. They are very agricultural with bad NVH and little room inside.

And, of course, they couldn’t be sold here without a full redesign due to crash safety regulations and Toyota hasn’t done a full redesign of the 70 since it was introduced.

I forgot the "not". I doubt they'd move more than 5k a year unless they targeted fleet markets. Even then it would be a hard sell over a F150 or F250 for most fleet customers.

 

[Jetboy]

IMO the popularity of an LC70 in the USA would be heavily dependent on price. If it was priced at $35k like Japan - it'll sell like crazy. 100k units a year. If it's $75k like they'd likely sell in the USA - I can't see a lot of buyers.

 

[Cablebandit]

IMO the popularity of an LC70 in the USA would be heavily dependent on price. If it was priced at $35k like Japan - it'll sell like crazy. 100k units a year. If it's $75k like they'd likely sell in the USA - I can't see a lot of buyers.

I think they'd still sell less than 10k units. You're on an enthusiast website so your thoughts on a potential market are skewed. The general public ain't buying it, and Toyota knows that. It's simple business.

 

[Rednexus]

I had an opportunity to ride in a 70 series at a mine site in BC for work. I was super-excited to hop in one, but was kind of disappointed. It reminded me on a 90s Ford fleet pickup in the interior layout/quality. I'm sure this one - being set up for underground mining - had a $100K price tag as well. They are cool rigs but just don't fit with American drivers. Maybe if the Ineos sells well I'd revisit my assessment, but I just don't think it makes sense here. It's certainly not something I'd pick over my GX, outside of a legit expedition trip.

 

[OSS]

The 70 series wagon is/was basically a 1982 FJ60. I owned a FJ60 for 30 years and I’d never buy another one. Time to move on TO SOMETHING BETTER

 

[malden]

They are cool rigs but just don't fit with American drivers. Maybe if the Ineos sells well I'd revisit my assessment, but I just don't think it makes sense here. It's certainly not something I'd pick over my GX, outside of a legit expedition trip.

Rednexus, whereas most guys who write here come off as Landcruiser commuters and not off roaders, your texts read true to the sport I know. But I am trying to get some context. Would you take a moment and watch this video, particularly at the 5 minute mark and tell me: is this the kind of terrain you are taking your similarly sized trailer through with your Lexus 470 to get to your base camp? This Aussie is driving a new 70 series with the 2.8l diesel AT to his camp through terrain that looks familiar to me. Is this the kind of thing you do? It’s not particularly difficult or technical terrain but I suspect this is the kind of thing you face in Missouri. Am I right?

 

[Rednexus]

My trailer is road-going and stays at developed campgrounds. I have no desire to pull it off-road and think that would be a major detraction from off-roading (like hiking with an 80# backback instead of the 30# backpack I like to take ). However we definitely do un-hook from the trailer and do wheeling day trips.

But to answer your question, yes that is very similar terrain to what I have here. Even the river looks like our Ozark streams!

We're also planning a CO 4x4 trip this summer and I'll be taking my GX and sleeping inside it (camper will be left at home). My rig will never be a full "overlanding" rig as I like things to be lightweight. I don't need a RTT, solar system, fridge, etc. I can sleep inside my rig on the drawers. That's all based on my background coming from backpacking and bicycle touring where I can go as light as 15# for an overnight trip. Too much stuff makes things to heavy.

 

[M1911]

We're also planning a CO 4x4 trip this summer and I'll be taking my GX and sleeping inside it (camper will be left at home). My rig will never be a full "overlanding" rig as I like things to be lightweight. I don't need a RTT, solar system, fridge, etc. I can sleep inside my rig on the drawers. That's all based on my background coming from backpacking and bicycle touring where I can go as light as 15# for an overnight trip. Too much stuff makes things to heavy.

When I off-road, I don't sleep in my rig. This is my preferred overlanding equipment:

 

[TWILLY]

The 70 series wagon is/was basically a 1982 FJ60. I owned a FJ60 for 30 years and I’d never buy another one. Time to move on TO SOMETHING BETTER

Okay, now that we've established that some people don't like the 70 series, and that other people like the Ritz Carlton, perhaps we can return to my original thread topic, which was a data-informed discussion of "LC250 remote touring capacities."

For that, I'll vigorously agree: We should move onto to something better, and, for remote touring, which is a longstanding core purpose of the Land Cruiser, that something better should come with more payload than, for example, a Kia Sorrento, which, according to the tech spec data, the LC250 does not.

 

[M1911]

Okay, now that we've established that some people don't like the 70 series, and that other people like the Ritz Carlton, perhaps we can return to my original thread topic, which was a data-informed discussion of "LC250 remote touring capacities."

For that, I'll vigorously agree: We should move onto to something better, and, for remote touring, which is a longstanding core purpose of the Land Cruiser, that something better should have more payload than, for example, a Kia Sorrento.

Where in the US are remote touring capabilities really needed?

I can certainly understand it in the Australian Outback or much of Africa. But where in the US are such capabilities really needed?

Most people in the US who are "into overlanding" it seems to me don't actually overland. Instead, they haul around a bunch of heavy and expensive equipment on their rig which they daily drive but hardly ever use.

 

[TWILLY]

Where in the US is remote touring capabilities really needed?

I can certainly understand it in the Australian Outback or much of Africa. But where in the US are such capabilities really needed?

Most people in the US who are "into overlanding" it seems to me don't actually overland. Instead, they haul around a bunch of heavy and expensive equipment on their rig which they daily drive but hardly ever use.

Not at the Ritz Carlton.

 

[Rednexus]

Where in the US is remote touring capabilities really needed?

I can certainly understand it in the Australian Outback or much of Africa. But where in the US are such capabilities really needed?

Most people in the US who are "into overlanding" it seems to me don't actually overland. Instead, they haul around a bunch of heavy and expensive equipment on their rig which they daily drive but hardly ever use.

Most of that equipment can encroach on what our camper cost and causes the rig to get around the same MPG (I get around 11-13 mpg towing our camper). The difference is that our camper has AC, fridge, two beds, a bathroom, water and sewer hookups, allows for one to stand up and walk around, and the daily-driver functionality of the rig is maintained. We spend ~15-20 nights a year in our camper and would spend more other than the annoyance/distraction of full-time jobs.

When I was a kid my dad and I took lots of trips out west in S-10 trucks and just camped along the way. "Overlanding" before it was a thing.