The Steve Austin Project (1 Viewer)

[kcjaz]

We can rebuild him....

So on my last camping trip, I had an accident where I went off a fire road into the trees and took substantial body damage. By substantial, I mean this.

Hopefully this will come in under 6 million dollars.

I'll provide more details and pics after I work things out with insurance. No one was hurt. Just bent metal here. For now, I'm seeking advice on approaches. The options I see of course hinge on what insurance co is going to do. For the purposes of this post, lets assume the first volley with insurance is they say its totaled. I already have had an independent estimate made at a body shop and know its close and will totally be dependent on the what the insurance co says value of the truck is. Note that the damage is all body and the truck drives and runs fine, no airbags deployed nothing mechanical is broken.

Value of the truck:
I've got a lot of mods. The cost of the mods is substantial. I can quickly get to $20K in mods just in my head. I know my cost is not the same as current value. Insurance Co will almost certainly just value the truck as a stock vehicle as I've not done anything with my policy to address that. (probably a lesson learned here with moding vehicles). The armor and specifically the TJM bumper saved this from being a total disaster. I'll expand on that latter, lots to say.

My position on current value is, that while I would concede that I did not insure the added value of the mods, that has nothing to do with the actual value of the truck. Based on the actual value of the truck, the vehicle should not be totaled. Is it plausible to think that the Ins Co would be willing to calculate "totaled vs. not totaled" based on the "actual" value and then determine what they would pay based on the "stock" value of the truck? I would then pay the increment. This avoids dealing with a totaled truck and a salvage title situation which is the next option.

A few other details here that I think come into the negotiation are:

1. I self recovered the vehicle. This was significant. It took 4 other rigs and their winches plus the most pullies, straps, soft shackles, chain saw and other recovery gear I've ever seen in one place. This was in a fairly remote location. It would have required multiple tow trucks and likely at least one "big rig" tow truck. Without rigging with snatch blocks to trees, a large boom truck would have been needed. My point here is that this saved a lot of cost for the insurance co. I think, a few $1000 at least.
2. I was 300 miles from home and did not use a flat bed tow truck to get it back. (maybe weak argument as I just drove it back)
3. I declined a rental car while we sort this out which was offered by Ins Co. This also saves the Ins Co money.
4. I am currently self storing the vehicle. This saves the Ins Co money.

"Totaled Truck Scenario"
If the truck gets totaled, then I see two options:

1. Buy the salvage truck back and take the difference between salvage value and stock value of the truck.
2. Take the stock value of the truck and buy a new 200 and start over.

Option 1:

While the front fender/hood look bad, they are mostly bolt on components that I can replace. If I need some cutting/welding, I have friends with skills. Its the D pillar, roof and window that is the challenge and is driving repair cost. I also do not need the truck to me pretty. The reality is that the way I use it, its likely to result in more body damage. She is morphing into a trail rig. It will come down to $$$ which I don't know yet.

What I'd like some input on is what does the road look like for a salvage title buy back apart from the actual repairs and associated cost. I know I'd have to do the repairs and then get it retitled with a "rebuilt" title. I'm sure this would involve a DMV inspection to get the rebuilt title but I don't know what they would need to see in terms of documents or proof of repair. I do know that there is a list of Toyota safety system checks that need to be done after an accident that I'll do regardless. I'm not sure how DMV/title people would view the parts of this I self perform or have professionally done but not in a "returned to OEM spec" way. Then, I'm not sure what insuring a rebuilt rig looks like. I'd assume that comp coverage is probably not in the picture.

Option 2:
Ugh. There is no way I'm just giving them the truck without either getting paid for the mods or taking the mods off to put on the replacement 200. I'd say getting paid for the mods has a zero probability chance so this would really be finding and buying a new rig and moving all the stuff over and let the Ins Co auction the salvage, "returned to OEM" truck. This is a pretty big effort and take a lot of time. We're talking about gears, lockers, LRA, bumpers, armor, Tesla head unit and the list goes on. I've also totally PM'd mechanical items like new radiator, starter, alternator, fan bracket, idler , PS pump, blah blah blah. My transmission is also relatively new (now 50K on it vs. 176K on the truck). Makes me sick just thinking about it.

I'm 100% emotionally, and likely irrationally, attached to my existing 200 which is likely impeding my ability to think through this. Its a bit like one of kids getting injured and the doctor saying it will be cheaper to get a new kid...

 

[Moby]

When my FJ-62 burned down I overloaded the adjuster with receipts. They finally ran it as a "special vehicle" and gave double what I wanted. Then I bought it back for $300 and sold it to Torfab to part out.

 

[doru]

First, sorry about the mishap. I went trough this kind of situation with an old car but did not end up totaling it.
Please read the policy to see if you were covered on that remote location. Some polices do not cover off road travel and depends if that road is considered a road or a trail.
Some polices have included directly attached aftermarket parts. Some have a monetary limit, and some have no coverage. Again get the full fine print policy, not just the coverage sheet and read it. It is many pages long.
They do not care about salvage cost savings when they calculate value. They do not care about not taking the rental. It is probably covered by your policy already so you paid for it. It might make a good impression on the agent if he's into this and the call is close.
My insurance will not insure a totalled car. It will only do liability for a rebuilt one.
Here to get the truck registered as rebuilt you need inspection no matter who fixed it.
The totaled scenario dance with insurance is pretty straight forward once the value is set.
Depending on insurance adjuster and your policy fine print your mods will either be considered as OEM parts or as aftermarket. If aftermarket they will ask for receipts. Your time installing them has no value for this purpose.
You cannot give them a truck missing parts if that accounted them in the evaluation. You can switch them to oem or remove the non essentials like compressor, roof rack, etc.
In totaled case you should really find out if there are structural damages. In some places you'll not be able to get a rebuilt title /pass inspection if those are not fixed. Fixing stuff like that is expensive and usually needs to be done by a shop so you can show proof of fixing it.
As you are ambivalent about the solution it will come down to numbers and insurance what way you may be able to go.
You already got the estimate for fixing.
Go on you DMV web site/contact them and see what are the requirements and fees.
Then you'll be ready to talk to insurance.
Just to set expectations, insurance are notorious for undervaluating cars more profit for them) especially when you have a lot of aftermarket stuff. It helps to research resale value of OEM similar trucks (and document) . It helps to have a list of all the stuff installed in the truck with date and price. All that can be used to try to Sway the adjuster in case you are not happy with it.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[kcjaz]

First, sorry about the mishap. I went trough this kind of situation with an old car but did not end up totaling it.
Please read the policy to see if you were covered on that remote location. Some polices do not cover off road travel and depends if that road is considered a road or a trail.
Some polices have included directly attached aftermarket parts. Some have a monetary limit, and some have no coverage. Again get the full fine print policy, not just the coverage sheet and read it. It is many pages long.
They do not care about salvage cost savings when they calculate value. They do not care about not taking the rental. It is probably covered by your policy already so you paid for it. It might make a good impression on the agent if he's into this and the call is close.
My insurance will not insure a totalled car. It will only do liability for a rebuilt one.
Here to get the truck registered as rebuilt you need inspection no matter who fixed it.
The totaled scenario dance with insurance is pretty straight forward once the value is set.
Depending on insurance adjuster and your policy fine print your mods will either be considered as OEM parts or as aftermarket. If aftermarket they will ask for receipts. Your time installing them has no value for this purpose.
You cannot give them a truck missing parts if that accounted them in the evaluation. You can switch them to oem or remove the non essentials like compressor, roof rack, etc.
In totaled case you should really find out if there are structural damages. In some places you'll not be able to get a rebuilt title /pass inspection if those are not fixed. Fixing stuff like that is expensive and usually needs to be done by a shop so you can show proof of fixing it.
As you are ambivalent about the solution it will come down to numbers and insurance what way you may be able to go.
You already got the estimate for fixing.
Go on you DMV web site/contact them and see what are the requirements and fees.
Then you'll be ready to talk to insurance.
Just to set expectations, insurance are notorious for undervaluating cars more profit for them) especially when you have a lot of aftermarket stuff. It helps to research resale value of OEM similar trucks (and document) . It helps to have a list of all the stuff installed in the truck with date and price. All that can be used to try to Sway the adjuster in case you are not happy with it.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Thanks. I have all of the OEM parts excepts front and rear bumper skin. May have to get those from someone here but most bumpers require cuts to plastic so maybe hard. But for the TJM, the front would be destroyed anyway.

 

[1994pd]

Thanks. I have all of the OEM parts excepts front and rear bumper skin. May have to get those from someone here but most bumpers require cuts to plastic so maybe hard. But for the TJM, the front would be destroyed anyway.

As far as your title and it being salvaged. If you do not give the title to the insurance company when you settle, and you keep the car for salvage value, you don’t have to retitle it. This means the vehicle maintains a clean title, not salvage, and no inspection is needed. The key is, don’t give the title or the vehicle to the insurance company if you intend to keep it.

 

[doru]

I don't think it works that way. If you try to sell the truck or reissue the title for whatever reason it will show it. I think insurance report it to DMV, title on hand or not. Times change, loopholes get closed. Maybe still works in some states...

 

[1994pd]

It works that way in Missouri and Kansas. I’ve done this multiple times, both with a personal vehicle and multiple commercial vehicles.

 

[bloc]

Damn shame. Whatever happens I wish you luck with it.

I don't think it works that way. If you try to sell the truck or reissue the title for whatever reason it will show it. I think insurance report it to DMV, title on hand or not. Times change, loopholes get closed. Maybe still works in some states...

This is my understanding, though individual states make these rules so it could come down to where the it's registered.

 

[tbisaacs]

Glad you are okay!

 

[Killacaviar]

**** man, I am really sorry. I know you just put a lot of love into that thing.

Head up, approach it with logic and be your own advocate.

Good luck, and you can find bumper skins on eBay for like 150 bucks, OEM and color matched, they are usually missing a tab or two or have a good bit of scuff/scratches.

 

[TheIcemanCometh]

FWIW if you are not using a rental car and storing it you can request those costs be added to value of the vehicle (or deducted from the repairs cost) which many result in avoiding it being totaled. Was able to do that with my first truck.

 

[kcjaz]

FWIW if you are not using a rental car and storing it you can request those costs be added to value of the vehicle (or deducted from the repairs cost) which many result in avoiding it being totaled. Was able to do that with my first truck.

Yes, that is what I am hoping to do.

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

You pay insurance to get paid for things like this. They make handsome money. Dont think of “saving them money” they screw folks of real value most of the time.

 

[kcjaz]

Update:
Still have not got initial estimate and offer from insurance. Super frustrating how long this is taking.

I have compiled a list of all 200 series LC MY 2011-2015 I could find for sale or recently sold. 44 in total. 5 of the built to some extent. If I filter out trucks with <100K miles and over 250K mikes, as well as the built ones, I get 28 trucks ranging in price from $29,887 to $45,889 with the average being $37,883. If I filter to only MY2013, I get $29,887 to $43,950 with the average being $35,483. KBB for my truck with 176K is only $26,638. I'm expecting insurance to be <$30K for pre-accident value.

I also have collected all my invoices for modes/upgrades. Some of these things would be easily removable but the total is ~$36K (I very purposely had never added that up before, ouch!) . The built rigs range in price from $47,750 to $59,995.

I am also getting the invoices for all of the baselining I have done like replacing radiator, alternator, starter, PS pump, fan bracket, AC compressor clutch, condenser, tensioner, serpentine belt, ect. to argue to argue the condition of my rig despite its 176K miles.

My question is should I wait and let the insurance company go first or should I hit them with my data first. I think I'd send them my filtered list and argue $38K for the stock pre-accident value of the truck and the actual value as it sat (with mods) to be $50K. I might round to $40K for the stock value and maybe push the built truck to $55K. I may eliminate rust belt truck as that pushes the value up to $40K and mine is pretty rust free. My repair estimate is $29K so I need a value that is at least $40K to avoid it being totaled. thoughts?

Here is the whole list:

MY	Miles	Price	location	Color Ext	Color Int	Mod/Stocj	VIN	link
2011​	167,598	32,558	Minnesota	Blue	Brown	Stock	JTMHY7AJ5B5011173	cargurus.com
2011​	117,832	38,950	Indiana	Silver	Grey	Stock	JTMHY7AJ7B4005381	cargurus.com
2011​	134,032	43,500	Georgia	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ8B4006636	cargurus.com
2011​	144,000	47,750	NC	Grey	Black	Similar build to mine	JTMHY7AJ6B5008024	BaT
2013​	163,121	31,995	Baton Rouge	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ5D4011425	cars.com
2013​	93,063	40,173	Iowa	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ5D4009626	cars.com
2013​	124,523	33,340	Connecticut	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ1D4019294	cars.com
2013​	190,500	29,887	Virgina	White	Sandstone	Stock	JTMHY7AJ2D4013620	cars.com
2013​	118,599	37,999	Florida	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ4D4017135	cars.com
2013​	161,469	32,481	NC	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ3D4009818	cars.com
2013​	179,500	32,500	Illinois	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ9D4009662	cars.com
2013​	132,368	39,970	SC	Black	Tan	Stock	JTMHY7AJ4D4009942	cars.com
2013​	141,000	37,500	Texas	Red	Beige	Stock	JTMHY7AJ1D4012832	cars.com
2013​	266,376	23,975	Georgia	Grey	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ9D4011573	truecar.com
2013​	143,657	37,499	NC	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ4D4009634	truecar.com
2013​	165,425	35,730	Georgia	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ5D4011148	carfax
2013​	95,015	43,995	Michigan	White	Tan	Stock	JTMHY7AJ3D4013903	carfax
2013​	137,100	43,950	NC	White	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ6D4020425	carfax
2013​	79,580	53,990	California	White	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ8D4013007	edmonds
2013​	175,436	32,940	Georgia	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ5D4010341	autotrader
2013​	104,000	52,000	Mo	White	Sandstone	Icon Suspension	JTMHY7AJ2D4016551	BaT
2013​	123,000	42,250	Florida	Silver	Black	Suspension, front bumber	JTMHY7AJ3D4011729	BaT
2013​	68,000	48,000	Maryland	Black	Tan	Stock		iHMud Classifieds
2014​	166,449	29,900	Michigan	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ0E4023645	EBAY
2014​	97,786	47,389	Maryland	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ1E4022584	Cars.com
2014​	82,349	45,491	Massachusetts	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJXE4027668	cars.com
2014​	113,608	41,500	Alabama	White	grey	Stock	JTMHY7AJ3E4024479	cars.com
2014​	165,692	39,982	Washington	Sonora Gold	Grey	Stock	JTMHY7AJ9E4027564	cars.com
2014​	143,707	40,992	Colorado	Sonora Gold	Sandstone	Stock	JTMHY7AJ3E4027821	cars.com
2014​	156,135	45,889	Las Vegas	White	Black?	Stock	JTMHY7AJ9E4027340	cars.com
2014​	150,782	37,991	California	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ9E4022302	cars.com
2014​	89,969	40,000	Utah	White	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ7E4024498	cars.com
2014​	115,500	45,000	Texas	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ3E4025731	cars.com
2014​	136,763	40,995	Minnesota	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ4E4024488	cars.com
2014​	92,127	47,995	NM	White	Tan	Stock	JTMHY7AJ4E4022627	carfax
2014​	74,752	59,995	Las Vegas	White	Black	snorkel/wheelsa	JTMHY7AJ9E4027144	carfax
2014​	87,019	46,990	Pennsylvania	White	Sandstone	Stock	JTMHY7AJ9E4025152	edmonds
2014​	160,292	35,900	Pennsylvania	White	Sandstone	Stock	JTMHY7AJ0E4025038	edmonds
2014​	129,000	37,500	Texas	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ5E4025584	autotrader
2014​	115,000	52,500	Georgia	Grey	Tan	Built		craigslist
2015​	161,745	39,881	Pennsylvania	White	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ2F4033191	cars.com
2015​	138,149	42,000	Arizona	Black	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ8F4032238	cars.com
2015​	94,420	52,995	Georgia	Silver	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ6F4034392	edmonds
2015​	146,806	40,995	Ohio	Grey	Black	Stock	JTMHY7AJ8F4033406	edmonds

 

[linuxgod]

I don’t think they’ll talk about the value or total it until they have an estimate to start with, but I’ve not been in your situation so I am talking out my arse.

First rule of negotiation is whoever anchors gets the best out of the negotiation. Definitely have all your ducks in a row and be confident in your value if they start to talk about totaling it

 

[Polecat]

… so I am talking out my arse.

First rule of negotiation is whoever anchors gets the best out of the negotiation. Definitely have all your ducks in a row and be confident in your value if they start to talk about totaling it

The two points I was going to make.

Seems like you’re doing what you can - be informed, have data, don’t be afraid to advocate for yourself.

To answer your question, I don’t see how it would hurt to proactively share your analysis and conclusions with them. Then again, I’m talking out of arse, so go find a salt shaker.

 

[TheComedian]

Sry for your damage.
But if you keep him and repair the needed stuff you will have a good car where you never have to think about battle damage anymore.
Like with my 200 I never come into the situation where I’m gonna think about „ouw that could give me a big scratch“ or if it would be maybe a bad Idea to try to move this 1to rock just with my front bumper.

At least it is good to wait what the insurance is saying and then you can compare what is the best way for you. Repairing is nice since you did alot of mods and getting a new one would mean alot of hours to bring him to the same state.

In the end it is a calculation between money and gut feeling

 

[linuxgod]

To answer your question, I don’t see how it would hurt to proactively share your analysis and conclusions with them. Then again, I’m talking out of arse, so go find a salt shaker.

In negotiations it only hurts if you lowball yourself. There are lots of studies that show the person who anchors gets closer to their value. It’s part of why a dealer puts an MSRP sticker on a car, and might even add “additional dealer markup”, as it influences most negotiations such that in the back of a buyers mind they think “if the dealer is adding markup then this must be a high demand vehicle so I should be happy to get it around the MSRP”.

Generally speaking once someone says a number, for a single item which has a value that’s hard to justify you’ll tend to end up somewhere roughly in the middle of where the two parties each start.

Again obviously the situation is different, but I do think if the repairs start getting into “totaled” numbers that having your own analysis of what “totaled” means can’t do anything but help.

Also keep in mind one of the best negotiation tactics is to find compromises or other areas to negotiate. In this case not taking the rental might help though it’s more helpful when you can use that as leverage (future) rather than goodwill (past). What it might mean though is that the insurance wants to total it at $35k and not $50k but you says you’re fine with that if they let you buy it back for $10k, or you’re fine with it if they let you remove mods x, y, and z. After all any non-OEM mods are unlikely to be worth much if anything in the salvage markets. That would include things like a Tesla style screen or a winch bumper, but it also might include aftermarket gears or wheels.

 

[kcjaz]

I don’t think they’ll talk about the value or total it until they have an estimate to start with

Yep. Their process is stuck until then. Very sequential, they can not think in parallel thoughts.

 

[kcjaz]

Sry for your damage.
But if you keep him and repair the needed stuff you will have a good car where you never have to think about battle damage anymore.
Like with my 200 I never come into the situation where I’m gonna think about „ouw that could give me a big scratch“ or if it would be maybe a bad Idea to try to move this 1to rock just with my front bumper.

At least it is good to wait what the insurance is saying and then you can compare what is the best way for you. Repairing is nice since you did alot of mods and getting a new one would mean alot of hours to bring him to the same state.

In the end it is a calculation between money and gut feeling

Yes I’m pretty sure I’m keeping this truck no matter what, even if I buy another. Given how I use it, dents and scratches are inevitable.