The Motor Oil Geek (1 Viewer)

[Heritage 2020]

Greetings All,

Lake Speed Jr., son of former NASCAR driver Lake Speed (and grandson of the late Mississippian Leland Speed) is a true oil expert who does a great job making the topic of motor oil science as interesting/informative as possible. His company Speed Diagnostix does oil analysis and has done/does work with NASCAR team Joe Gibbs Racing (Team Toyota).

Check out his channel and enjoy. It may help some with motor oil conundrums.

NOTE: As a mechanical engineer he definitely made it very easy to explain why I use 0w/20 in my 3URFE and 5w/50 in my modded 5.8L Supercharged Trinity V8 Shelby GT500.

The Motor Oil Geek

As a Certified Lubrication Specialist with over 20 years experience, The Motor Oil Geek channel delivers real data about motor oils from an expert perspective instead of speculation. Twice each month I will upload a new video that either analyzes a new oil, dyno tests an oil, reveals the details...

youtube.com

 

[gasman4u]

Greetings All,

Lake Speed Jr., son of former NASCAR driver Lake Speed (and grandson of the late Mississippian Leland Speed) is a true oil expert who does a great job making the topic of motor oil science as interesting/informative as possible. His company Speed Diagnostix does oil analysis and has done/does work with NASCAR team Joe Gibbs Racing (Team Toyota).

Check out his channel and enjoy. It may help some with motor oil conundrums.

NOTE: As a mechanical engineer he definitely made it very easy to explain why I use 0w/20 in my 3URFE and 5w/50 in my modded 5.8L Supercharged Trinity V8 Shelby GT500.

The Motor Oil Geek

As a Certified Lubrication Specialist with over 20 years experience, The Motor Oil Geek channel delivers real data about motor oils from an expert perspective instead of speculation. Twice each month I will upload a new video that either analyzes a new oil, dyno tests an oil, reveals the details...

youtube.com

I saw this guy recently too! He definitely brings the "why" as to oil recommendations, etc.

Has anyone used Speed Diagnostix and blackstone before? I wonder what differences they have vs one another?

 

[04UZJ100]

Greetings All,

Lake Speed Jr., son of former NASCAR driver Lake Speed (and grandson of the late Mississippian Leland Speed) is a true oil expert who does a great job making the topic of motor oil science as interesting/informative as possible. His company Speed Diagnostix does oil analysis and has done/does work with NASCAR team Joe Gibbs Racing (Team Toyota).

Check out his channel and enjoy. It may help some with motor oil conundrums.

NOTE: As a mechanical engineer he definitely made it very easy to explain why I use 0w/20 in my 3URFE and 5w/50 in my modded 5.8L Supercharged Trinity V8 Shelby GT500.

The Motor Oil Geek

As a Certified Lubrication Specialist with over 20 years experience, The Motor Oil Geek channel delivers real data about motor oils from an expert perspective instead of speculation. Twice each month I will upload a new video that either analyzes a new oil, dyno tests an oil, reveals the details...

youtube.com

5W30 is recommended everywhere in the world but the USA.

 

[doru]

Thanks for sharing the YouTube channel. Learned something new.

As for the lab comparison, I have not sent samples to Speed Diagnostix, only to Blackstone. From videos of the reports I do not see a big diff between the two. The SP reports probably included comments to that where not shown on the videos, and there might be the difference. Most people do not pour over or understand all the numbers in the report, but they all do read the comments.

Interesting sending the clean sample with the dirty one. Do you send it every time, or do you only send it when you change the oil weight/brand? Basically, whether you rely on the oil manufacturer consistency.

 

[doru]

BTW no matter the lab used it is useful to do it when you keep the truck/car for as long as some of us do. It helped me find a hidden broken air filter box (high silicone in the oil w/o any work on the engine) and a crack on a cylinder wall (high water), none on the truck.

 

[Artie]

This channel has been in my subscriptions for a while now, mostly over my head but I find it fascinating to see all the science and R&D that goes into oil and lubricants.

I do Blackstone with each oil change, I like to keep detailed files. I recently had to do a change early because of a 6000 mile road trip that would put me too far over my normal interval… I did the analysis anyway. As mentioned by @doru above, any early insight into an issue is always better than finding out too late. Probably a little overkill but we drive this thing hard and go remote so the insurance it provides is worth it in my book.

I will refrain on making a oil weight comment, I’m all outta popcorn

 

[2021 LC200]

5W30 is recommended everywhere in the world but the USA.

+ 5W30 was used by the Toyota Engineers to design the 3UR-FE lubrication system and related parts such as the oil pressure actuated chain tensioner.

0W20 = EPA/regulator push, not what Toyota Engineers really recommend.

 

[bloc]

Without digging in to the substantive differences between the UOI companies, it seems Blackstone’s huge database of previous samples from different engines would really help add context to the numbers a customer would get from their specific sample.

But I’ll definitely check out his channel. Any excuse to be a more educated car nerd…

 

[185]

if you want comparo numbers blackstone.
If you want quality data about your engine, like fuel dilution etc, anybody but blackstone

 

[185]

+ 5W30 was used by the Toyota Engineers to design the 3UR-FE lubrication system and related parts such as the oil pressure actuated chain tensioner.

0W20 = EPA/regulator push, not what Toyota Engineers really recommend.

while that maybe the case, any motor spec'd with 0w20 oils need to be designed to tolerate said oil visc.
golden rule with lubrication, thick as necessary thin as possible.

 

[2021 LC200]

while that maybe the case, any motor spec'd with 0w20 oils need to be designed to tolerate said oil visc.
golden rule with lubrication, thick as necessary thin as possible.

The point is the 3UR-FE was spec’d for 5W30 and 10W40 was recommended in hot places like the Middle East.

How did we end up with to thin 0W20? Non technical folk pushing it to reduce 0.1 or 0.01% CO2 emissions from the US car park.

Will 0W20 use be a problem up to say 100 to 200k miles? Likely not

Will 0W20 use be a problem at 300k or 400k etc? Given how much smoother 5W30 already sounds from recently switching, I would say most certainly yes.

 

[185]

The point is the 3UR-FE was spec’d for 5W30 and 10W40 was recommended in hot places like the Middle East.

How did we end up with to thin 0W20? Non technical folk pushing it to reduce 0.1 or 0.01 CO2 emissions from the US car park.

Will 0W20 use be a problem up to say 100 to 200k miles? Likely not

Will 0W20 use be a problem at 300k or 400k etc? Given how much smoother 5W30 already sounds from recently switching, I would say most certainly yes.

fuel economy was the main aim. Powertrain engineering team had to study how to design the engine to get there.

I agree that there exists better oil visc to prevent wear (0w40 being my personal fav), but I have yet to see any evidence of 0w20 oils limiting the 200 series from reaching those high miles. I believe the million mile tundras ran 0w/5w20.

 

[2021 LC200]

fuel economy was the main aim. Powertrain engineering team had to study how to design the engine to get there.

I agree that there exists better oil visc, but I have yet to see any evidence of 0w20 oils limiting the 200 series from reaching those high miles.

Well, they designed the 3UR-FE in the 5 years window prior to 2008 and they did not change it thereafte. Maybe minor tweaks to motor management for the flex fuel version and elastomers used, not any of the main lubrication system components, flowpaths and bearings etc.

0W20 did not even exist. Came out around 2010.

They may have done some calculations and even tests when EPA pushed for it and said ok (engineers or in fact managers/marketing…) as most folk do not keep their vehicles above 100k miles, let alone 200k miles.

I plan to keep my 200 for the next 25y so I like to be able to have no engine wear issue well beyond 200k. There are probably quite a few enthusiasts here who want the same. Originally recommendation was 5W30 and in hotter climates like the Middle East 10W40. Unless you live well north in Canada or Alaska, you do not need 0W. Another route is to use 0W30 or 0W40, they can get expensive and IMO not worth it unless you are going for >500k miles.

Obviously all mileage numbers are indicative to frame what 0W20 and 0W30 or 0W40 can do for you. There is also oil change frequency which will play into engine cleanliness and longevity. 5k is the more conservative way then 10k and again those planning to keep well above 200k miles want to consider this and not follow Toyota/Lexus marketing department.

 

[doru]

Follow the Oil Geek advise: Do an analysis. If what you use now works, then you're done. If not, or there is space for improvement (remember climate is not the only important variable for YOUR particular truck) then make changes and MEASURE again (seat of the pants, noise, etc. is not measuring).

No need to debate Toyota's marketing/engineering or copy what any of us do/say here. Do your own analysis and decide what's best for your engine, where you drive, and how you drive.

 

[2021 LC200]

No need to debate Toyota's marketing/engineering or copy what any of us do/say here. Do your own analysis and decide what's best for your engine, where you drive, and how you drive.

Why do all the complicated oil sampling analysis at additional costs, when using 5W30 and 5k intervals is the obvious way?

What will you actually do with the data? Sell your 200 early for no reason because the analysis shows a bit more wear?

 

[185]

Well, they designed the 3UR-FE in the 5 years window prior to 2008 and they did not change it. 0W20 did not even exist. Came out around 2010. They may have done some calculations and even tests when EPA pushed for it and said ok (engineers/managers/marketing…) as most folk do not keep their vehicles above 100k miles, let alone 200k miles.

I plan to keep my 200 for the next 25y so I like to be able to have no engine wear issue well beyond 200k. There are probably quite a few enthusiasts here who want the same. Originally recommendation was 5W30 and in hotter climates like the Middle East 10W40. Unless you live well north in Canada or Alaska, you do not need 0W. Another route is to use 0W30 or 0W40, they can get expensive and IMO not worth it unless you are going for >500k miles.

Obviously all mileage numbers are indicative to frame what 0W20 and 0W30 or 0W40 can do for you. There is also oil change frequency which will play into engine cleanliness and longevity. There 5k is the more conservative way then 10k and again those planning to keep well above 200k miles want to consider this and not follow Toyota/Lexus marketing department.

0w20 market availability and industry were two different dates. Idemitsu and Japanese automakers were already well into development right before y2k in the pursuit of fuel economy gains (2% if i remember). The UR engine series specific technical mods to accommodate the thinner oil is best left to folks directly involved with development.

That being said, thicker oils always works better but to quantify wear rates is difficult, even at a 500k+ mile target.

There is some validity to oil analysis, but the key to this is one report wont tell you enough to make a decision nor inform an owner of impending failure. Its a useful tool for engineers or fleet managers who need trend data. Most end users, you are better off just sticking to a severe rated oci and then choosing oil with proper approvals if anything to better align ones personal driving style. For the UR series of engines toyota is not picky and a simple il-6/api sp rated oil is all you need. If you have the funds and/or want stringent approvals you can run any oil with Bmw LL01 rating or MB229.72/5 rating.

 

[doru]

*Some* people like to run their machines at top capability and minimum wear. That data is the only way you can actually do that.

If you do not do that then neither try debating 5W30 vs 0W30. Just pick whatever is in the manual - it is safe and move on. Don't try convincing me that I should pick one versus the other unless you have that data.

But there is a lot more usefulness to that data than just picking up the "right" oil. As I said before that kind of data pointed to me to a hidden broken air box, and a cracked cylinder wall. W/o it I would have driven many 1000's of miles without intake air filtration, and I would have been stranded somewhere when the coolant circuit would have eventually blown up under combustion pressure ripping something apart.

I change oil myself with Costco purchased oil (using coupons), and Inet purchased oil filters. I save more than enough that I can afford $35 for oil testing at each change. Thus, the ability to knowledgeably change oil grade is a benefit at no additional charge which I did use in the past to change from factory specs oil on another car I own, not based on a Inet forum recommendation, but on the wear data lowering iron from 20+ to 10.

 

[2021 LC200]

*Some* people like to run their machines at top capability and minimum wear. That data is the only way you can actually do that.

If you do not do that then neither try debating 5W30 vs 0W30. Just pick whatever is in the manual - it is safe and move on. Don't try convincing me that I should pick one versus the other unless you have that data.

But there is a lot more usefulness to that data than just picking up the "right" oil. As I said before that kind of data pointed to me to a hidden broken air box, and a cracked cylinder wall. W/o it I would have driven many 1000's of miles without intake air filtration, and I would have been stranded somewhere when the coolant circuit would have eventually blown up under combustion pressure ripping something apart.

I change oil myself with Costco purchased oil (using coupons), and Inet purchased oil filters. I save more than enough that I can afford $35 for oil testing at each change. Thus, the ability to knowledgeably change oil grade is a benefit at no additional charge which I did use in the past to change from factory specs oil on another car I own, not based on a Inet forum recommendation, but on the wear data lowering iron from 20+ to 10.

Do what you do and I use Toyota OEM filters purchased at the dealer and a good quality oil (5W30 Pennzoil UP) and consider it done.

 

[2021 LC200]

0w20 market availability and industry were two different dates. Idemitsu and Japanese automakers were already well into development right before y2k in the pursuit of fuel economy gains (2% if i remember). The UR engine series specific technical mods to accommodate the thinner oil is best left to folks directly involved with development.

That being said, thicker oils always works better but to quantify wear rates is difficult, even at a 500k+ mile target.

There is some validity to oil analysis, but the key to this is one report wont tell you enough to make a decision nor inform an owner of impending failure. Its a useful tool for engineers or fleet managers who need trend data. Most end users, you are better off just sticking to a severe rated oci and then choosing oil with proper approvals if anything to better align ones personal driving style. For the UR series of engines toyota is not picky and a simple il-6/api sp rated oil is all you need. If you have the funds and/or want stringent approvals you can run any oil with Bmw LL01 rating or MB229.72/5 rating.

You have inside information the 3UR-FE was designed for 0W20 instead of 5W30?

 

[peneumbra2]

thick as necessary thin as possible.

Are we talking about oil, or women?