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The Knitting Circle
- Thread starter ClankBang
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Blackdog
"Y'all smell that?"
Observations from the wise
Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land." Nearly 75 years ago, (when Welfare was introduced) Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, light up a camel, this is the Promised Land." Today, Congress has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels and mortgaged the Promised Land! I was so depressed last night thinking about Health Care Plans, the economy, the wars, lost jobs, savings, Social Security, retirement funds etc....I called a Suicide Hotline. I had to press 1 for English. I was connected to a call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got excited and asked if I could drive a truck......
Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land." Nearly 75 years ago, (when Welfare was introduced) Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, light up a camel, this is the Promised Land." Today, Congress has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels and mortgaged the Promised Land! I was so depressed last night thinking about Health Care Plans, the economy, the wars, lost jobs, savings, Social Security, retirement funds etc....I called a Suicide Hotline. I had to press 1 for English. I was connected to a call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got excited and asked if I could drive a truck......
Land Speeder
InstaH8R
Stolen for posterity! LOL!
Blackdog
"Y'all smell that?"
.
Likely sent from the bathroom stall using IH8MUD
Likely sent from the bathroom stall using IH8MUD
ARB has got a sale going on ~ $377 for a locker, thats cheap. http://www.jcwhitney.com/arb-air-locker/p2028453.jcwx?filterid=d2177y1978g2j1
That is crazy cheap! Wonder if you ordered if they would send you an email saying they made a mistake on the website...
Edit: I can't get a "Add to Cart" Button to come up for that price... I was/ am going to try to order one. At that price I can't go wrong.
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Matt,
I know you posted this when he first started the thread in the 80 section. I finally got around to reading through it all even the off topic rants at the end on 4 link vs 3 link vs factory radius arm flip. I want to hear pros and cons on the cut and turn and if the rotation can be calculated on the bench instead of under the truck. I was going to do the washer mod on the locked axle but may grow a pair and try this I figure on the bench I can grind out the cuts to get the best penetration and I will get all my pinion angles and caster back to normal at one time. The down side is that its not very tested and there is a good chance I'll screw something up, washer/plates are relatively easy and well proven. Go...
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/753203-knuckle-cut-turn.html
I know you posted this when he first started the thread in the 80 section. I finally got around to reading through it all even the off topic rants at the end on 4 link vs 3 link vs factory radius arm flip. I want to hear pros and cons on the cut and turn and if the rotation can be calculated on the bench instead of under the truck. I was going to do the washer mod on the locked axle but may grow a pair and try this I figure on the bench I can grind out the cuts to get the best penetration and I will get all my pinion angles and caster back to normal at one time. The down side is that its not very tested and there is a good chance I'll screw something up, washer/plates are relatively easy and well proven. Go...
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/753203-knuckle-cut-turn.html
Ok, here are my thoughts on the pros and cons of the cut and turn for the 80 series axle. (rolls up sleeves, gets some coffee, sits down and cracks knuckles...)
Most people use offset bushings to correct the caster. This rotates the entire housing back to stock position. Simple, cheap, easy, reversible...not much to think about up to around 2.5" of lift.
The washer mod is a variation of the same idea, but instead of using offset control arm bushings you slot the front hole by 14 MM(or 7MM front and rear), rotate the axle back and weld on new plates to relocate the holes.(effectively washers). The benefits over bushings I see are a)that it is cheaper if you have the tools b) you dont have to push out the stock bushings and c) you retain stock bushings so you can maintain flex and good driving characteristics.
The problem with both of these solutions is that by moving the entire axle housing, they also rotate the pinion angle down towards the transfer case. driveshafts work by splitting the angles between the axle and transfer pinions between two u-joints, usually set to be parallel angles. The 80 series uses a different "broken back" configuration, the front points up so the ujoints are not parallel but are still operating at the same angle. like #2 in this diagram:
As the pinion moves down it gets to a point where the angles do not match and eventually the front shaft will start to vibrate. At this point, usually 3.5-4" of lift, most people install a Double carden drive shaft, which has three joints. The joint at the pinion is basically fixed with no angle and the two at the transfer case split the angles.
By the time you buy and install plates, return to stock bushings, and buy a dc driveshaft this becomes very expensive. Which brings us to the cut and turn.
With the cut and turn you cut through the axle tube freeing the knuckle balls, rotate them back, and weld them back on. This changes the caster without changing the pinion angle.
The pros I see are:
A) low to no cost (if knuckles need to be rebuilt anyway)
B) retain stock bushings
C) does not rotate pinion back necesitating a dc shaft
D) allows for more correction
The cons I see are:
A) you will have to pull the knuckles off - so probably knuckle rebuild time( could be a pro if it is due)
B) you are cutting, grinding, welding on one of the most critical pieces of the truck
C) pinion is now operating at a higher than stock angle - some argue that there might be oil starvation issues to the pinion bearing.
To address the cons:
A) I am due for a rebuild, most people are or are at least close so probably not a factor.
B) The knuckle ball is machined as a tight fit in the housing requiring a long pipe to even turn it so the welds are just holding it in place. If you have a doubt, these should do the same thing:
http://sleeoffroad.com/products/suspension_pieces_bushings.htm
or cheaper(I do not know anything about this site caveat emptor):
http://www.ultrarevparts.com/SPC-88920-Offset-Bearing-Kit/dp/B00HDFB43M
C) you could just assume it is fine, overfill through the stock plug, or install one of these:
http://www.trail-gear.com/fill-inspection-cap
you could also do the washer mod, rotating the housing back a little bit, but not enough to need a dc shaft, and then make up the difference with a cut and turn. this combo would also work with the offset trunion bearings I mentioned above. It would also rotate the spring perches back closer to stock.
FWIW, If and when I finally get some new lift springs I am leaning toward the offset bearings and maybe adding a top fill cap to address the pinion bearing oiling. I doubt I will 4"+ big again, but If I did I would just add the washer mod to the bearings.
As for calculating the angle, here is a thread with some math:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/789552-caster-correction-question.html
I would probably approach it differently - measure the diameter of the spot to be cut and turned. Multiply that by pi to get the circuference of the axle at that point. Divide that by 360 to get the distance per degree. Multiply that by the amount you need to correct and divide by two since it will move front and back and mark it on the housing. Somebody check that math for me since that was off the top of the head.
I didn't go into the fact that the tie rod will eventually hit the control arms. To address that you could either move it up front with the chevy one ton ends, or do a control arm flip which would allow you to rotate the housing a little at the same time.
with a big lift, 6+", I think you could probably do an arm flip and rotate the housing back to the point where the pinion starts to operate in a standard parallel configuration, but that is a controversial topic in the 80 forum.
with a big lift, 6+", I think you could probably do an arm flip and rotate the housing back to the point where the pinion starts to operate in a standard parallel configuration, but that is a controversial topic in the 80 forum.
Land Speeder
InstaH8R
B.Paul, you answered your own question. Plates are easier, and more reversible and more "adjustable".
Cut-n-turn, while cool... will take way too much math, head scratching, and praying. I'm only good at the two latter.
From cutting off two sets of balls, it's easy to cut just enough to turn them, that won't be your issue. Once they're loose, they literally rotate t where you need them.
Either way, Matt posted the diagram, just make sure that drive shaft is lined in same angle, otherwise you'll get vibes from the shaft.
Cut-n-turn, while cool... will take way too much math, head scratching, and praying. I'm only good at the two latter.
From cutting off two sets of balls, it's easy to cut just enough to turn them, that won't be your issue. Once they're loose, they literally rotate t where you need them.
Either way, Matt posted the diagram, just make sure that drive shaft is lined in same angle, otherwise you'll get vibes from the shaft.
justbecause
perpetually lost.
Ok, here are my thoughts on the pros and cons of the cut and turn for the 80 series axle. (rolls up sleeves, gets some coffee, sits down and cracks knuckles...)
Most people use offset bushings to correct the caster. This rotates the entire housing back to stock position. Simple, cheap, easy, reversible...not much to think about up to around 2.5" of lift.
The washer mod is a variation of the same idea, but instead of using offset control arm bushings you slot the front hole by 14 MM(or 7MM front and rear), rotate the axle back and weld on new plates to relocate the holes.(effectively washers). The benefits over bushings I see are a)that it is cheaper if you have the tools b) you dont have to push out the stock bushings and c) you retain stock bushings so you can maintain flex and good driving characteristics.
The problem with both of these solutions is that by moving the entire axle housing, they also rotate the pinion angle down towards the transfer case. driveshafts work by splitting the angles between the axle and transfer pinions between two u-joints, usually set to be parallel angles. The 80 series uses a different "broken back" configuration, the front points up so the ujoints are not parallel but are still operating at the same angle. like #2 in this diagram:
As the pinion moves down it gets to a point where the angles do not match and eventually the front shaft will start to vibrate. At this point, usually 3.5-4" of lift, most people install a Double carden drive shaft, which has three joints. The joint at the pinion is basically fixed with no angle and the two at the transfer case split the angles.
By the time you buy and install plates, return to stock bushings, and buy a dc driveshaft this becomes very expensive. Which brings us to the cut and turn.
With the cut and turn you cut through the axle tube freeing the knuckle balls, rotate them back, and weld them back on. This changes the caster without changing the pinion angle.
The pros I see are:
A) low to no cost (if knuckles need to be rebuilt anyway)
B) retain stock bushings
C) does not rotate pinion back necesitating a dc shaft
D) allows for more correction
The cons I see are:
A) you will have to pull the knuckles off - so probably knuckle rebuild time( could be a pro if it is due)
B) you are cutting, grinding, welding on one of the most critical pieces of the truck
C) pinion is now operating at a higher than stock angle - some argue that there might be oil starvation issues to the pinion bearing.
To address the cons:
A) I am due for a rebuild, most people are or are at least close so probably not a factor.
B) The knuckle ball is machined as a tight fit in the housing requiring a long pipe to even turn it so the welds are just holding it in place. If you have a doubt, these should do the same thing:
http://sleeoffroad.com/products/suspension_pieces_bushings.htm
or cheaper(I do not know anything about this site caveat emptor):
http://www.ultrarevparts.com/SPC-88920-Offset-Bearing-Kit/dp/B00HDFB43M
C) you could just assume it is fine, overfill through the stock plug, or install one of these:
http://www.trail-gear.com/fill-inspection-cap
you could also do the washer mod, rotating the housing back a little bit, but not enough to need a dc shaft, and then make up the difference with a cut and turn. this combo would also work with the offset trunion bearings I mentioned above. It would also rotate the spring perches back closer to stock.
FWIW, If and when I finally get some new lift springs I am leaning toward the offset bearings and maybe adding a top fill cap to address the pinion bearing oiling. I doubt I will 4"+ big again, but If I did I would just add the washer mod to the bearings.
As for calculating the angle, here is a thread with some math:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/789552-caster-correction-question.html
I would probably approach it differently - measure the diameter of the spot to be cut and turned. Multiply that by pi to get the circuference of the axle at that point. Divide that by 360 to get the distance per degree. Multiply that by the amount you need to correct and divide by two since it will move front and back and mark it on the housing. Somebody check that math for me since that was off the top of the head.
Thanks for the help guys. I like the idea and the pros are definitely something to make this a possible future project once a few more dive in. Now I think the best thing for me is gonna be to go with the plates.
Sent from my iPhone using magic
Sent from my iPhone using magic
Quick question for you guys. I bought the bearings to rebuild my third on my 06' tacoma and was wondering if I would need to do all the shimming that is required to install new gears, or because I'm just replacing the bearings can I just put everything back in the way it came.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
You should just be able to swap bearings and keep the shim pack the same. I am 99% on that.
On another note I am replacing all the bearings in the locked axle I got from Zack and found a shim on one trunion bearing but not the other. It's that normal to have no shim under one?
On another note I am replacing all the bearings in the locked axle I got from Zack and found a shim on one trunion bearing but not the other. It's that normal to have no shim under one?
justbecause
perpetually lost.
behind my house, there is a little piss trickle of a wet weather creek, that does shows up on the property tax map...
I called the county extension to ask, but my message hasnt been returned yet; Before I start moving dirt around, cutting trees, etc, do I have to get an EIS? or anything like that? Or can I start clearing it out some without any legal/liability woes?
I called the county extension to ask, but my message hasnt been returned yet; Before I start moving dirt around, cutting trees, etc, do I have to get an EIS? or anything like that? Or can I start clearing it out some without any legal/liability woes?
Land Speeder
InstaH8R
Is there a Land Cruiser stuck in said creek?
justbecause
perpetually lost.
negative. no vehicles/equipment down there. just about 2 acres of neglected woods that needs a management plan and some conservation work.
maybe some goats and a couple of pigs.
I already have the chickens.
What are you asking about? Working in the creek or just the clearing? Not sure about local rules, but I believe on private property you can do work yourself. In the creek you have to take into account the upstream and downstream and your modifications will need to not put more water on either of your neighbors in either direction. A properly sized culvert should be ok to install.
As far as clearing, I would recommend using best management practices like controlling run-off and minimizing siltation into the creek and you should be ok.
Here in TN I have applied for probably a hundred ARAP and 404e permits for utilities and municiple work, nothing huge, but have generally learned that if you are smart and are mindful of your neighbors then you should be fine.
I am going to be in a similar boat once the ground drys out a little and I can get out on the farm to start working.
Again, all location dependent. But I do know most farmers and private land owners up here in TN get away with stuff that would get a utility contractor fined into oblivion...
As far as clearing, I would recommend using best management practices like controlling run-off and minimizing siltation into the creek and you should be ok.
Here in TN I have applied for probably a hundred ARAP and 404e permits for utilities and municiple work, nothing huge, but have generally learned that if you are smart and are mindful of your neighbors then you should be fine.
I am going to be in a similar boat once the ground drys out a little and I can get out on the farm to start working.
Again, all location dependent. But I do know most farmers and private land owners up here in TN get away with stuff that would get a utility contractor fined into oblivion...
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