The "GREAT" how to best protect your frame from rust debate...

[Zack1978]

HI everyone,
The frame on my 1987 FJ 60 is at the end of it's useful life, and it is ready to be reclaimed by mother earth! It has been repaired twice already, and rust holes have started to appear in new places. Also the rear channel is totally ravaged by rust, aka the "wet cardboard" look. There is no hope for this frame!

With the above info in mind, I picked up a new rust free frame a few weeks ago. The frame is in great shape, even the rear channel in nice with just a bit of surface rust. I do need to find a rear crossmember however since it is missing on this frame because there was an aftermarket bumper mounted.

I found a shop to swap my frame, and his quote to do the job is $1, 500. Before I have the frame swapped I want to protect it in the best way possible, so what is the best way?

Powder coat?
Paint?
Galvanizing?

I like the look of powder coating, however there is no logical way to clean and powder coat the inside of the frame rails. The same issue presents itself with paint. As many people have noted, the Land Cruiser frame rusts from the inside out. I would hate to go through the trouble of a frame swap, only to have it rot out again.

So that leaves galvanizing. However there seems to be many variables with galvanizing as well. I noticed that there are may threaded holes on the frame, so I guess sacrificial bolts would need to be put in place? Also are the holes on the frame enough/large enough to allow to zinc to drain out? I have contacted three galvanizing places here in NJ, two places say the frame MUST be sandblasted first, and the third place does not care (Home Hot Dip Galvanizing and Protective Coatings for Steel from Voigt & Schweitzer and New Jersey Galvanizing).

The frame still has the original Toyota paint on it. The price difference is also large, the two places that want it sandblasted said it will cost "around" $300.00, while the third place claims about $800.00. I am also concerned with painting after galvanizing. I called a good powder coating place in NJ, and they feel that powder coating does not stick well to galvanizing, and they claim paint does not either. Is there truth to that? I would like the frame to be painted or powder coated black after the hot dip process.

So what do you say? What experiences can you share? The biggest concern for me is inside the rails.


Thanks,
Zack

PS: Does anyone have a good rear crossmember for my 87?

 

[Zack1978]

Here is a picture of the inside of the rear..............

 

[Zack1978]

Actually that picture makes the frame look like it has a lot of surface rust, in fact the frame is almost perfect with basically no rust. Here are more pictures.....

 

[AK RIG]

I know there are good stories and horror stories about undercoating, this is a good story. My '89 Cruiser spent the first 10 years+ of its life in Ohio and saw a lot of salt. The body has some pretty extensive rust in the typical places. However, the Cruiser was obviously undercoated at some time in its past (maybe when new??) and the frame is perfect, on the outside anyway...

 

[Biche]

I know there are good stories and horror stories about undercoating, this is a good story. My '89 Cruiser spent the first 10 years+ of its life in Ohio and saw a lot of salt. The body has some pretty extensive rust in the typical places. However, the Cruiser was obviously undercoated at some time in its past (maybe when new??) and the frame is perfect, on the outside anyway...

X2 my Canadian truck have been undercoated over the years. The frame is still solid, the rust started to appear on the body, mainly the roof gutter. Based on the door's stickers, it was undercoated last time in 2005(I have the truck since last spring)

 

[jzilla]

I just brought up a rust free FJ60 from Cali, frame is actually better than yours, no surface rust at all...
I cleaned the frame with the body on it, primed it and painted it, then I fluid filmed the inside of it, plan to fluid film it every 6months to 1 year, hope that does the trick.

 

[Kanatii]

I've been doing the redneck method of scaling off any rust I find and then I've been using a garden sprayer to aerosolize a mixture of used ATF and used gear oil from my different cars into the frame rails and onto the underside of the truck.

I figure this is a stopgap until I have the time and resources to pick the body up and wire-wheel the frame down and anti-rust prime it.

 

[SNLC]

Here is what I would do, and what I will do when I swap frames....


#1: clean the inside of the frame out very well. Start with a garden hose that is bushed down to 1/2". Put one end of the frame lower then the other, I like the front lower. Push the hose into all holes in the frame. Wash it for a long time, until nothing comes out. Stick your finger in there to make sure it is clean. I have seen many a good looking frame half full of funk. It takes some work and a few hours but you can get all the debris out of the inside of the frame.

#2: You can skip this one but if you really want to make it last another 25yrs or more.....get an old piece of cable, like a winch cable. Make sure it is frayed up pretty bad. Push it into the frame, working it back and forth a lot. Do this until you are satisfied it if really clean. Then repeat #1.

#3: sand blast the frame. Clean inside of frame of debris with compressed air as best you can.

#4: Once the frame is dry and clean use Rust Bullet or POR15. Pour it inside the frame, use lots of it. Rotate the frame to let it get all around inside it. Oh and have the frame higher on one end. Take rags and coat hangers and push them inside the frame until you are statisfied it is all coated. Then coat the outside of the frame. I would apply several coats.

#5: Treat the inside of the frame with waxoyl, fishoil or a variety of other products. You can try to do this with a sprayer, several options out there for this. Or you can apply it (not the waxoyl) like the POR15, ie rags and coat hangers.

That is about it. If you do this, the frame should be better prepared against corrosion then it came from the factory. Oh and if you keep it clean, it should last an easy 25yrs.

My 2 cents

 

[erikgil]

Good god, great thread, but man, my brain hurts thinking of all the work. Quite the payoff, but damn...

 

[dbleon]

Has anyone ever fully boxed and sealed their frame?? Just seems like it would be impossible to protect the inside...

 

[niceguysanti]

I stripped my frame down to bare steel -
from this:

to this: (pressure blasted)

to this: (phenolic resin primer brushed on)

to this: (eastwood chassis black sprayed on)

I also used a product from eastwood that is sprayed inside the frame rails to prevent any rusting from the inside out.

 

[orangefj45]

Move to Ca or the southwest.




Problem solved!

 

[augirthedude]

Eeegads! you guys have way too much time on your hands .. I really wonder when all that work pays off .. My hat is off to all of you who will go to no end to preserve your landcruiser.... Cheers!

 

[Zack1978]

Move to Ca or the southwest.




Problem solved!

Not really an option for me, besides I kinda like NJ. But I do hate all the salt on the roads!


Zack

 

[Joe_E]

Zack , unless you do a complete strip down, like sandblasting, you'll always chase the rust. I took care of my 60 like my child. But daily driving in winter in the northeast is a losing battle.
I don't plan on driving her now in the salt months after the resto so i went with a sandblast and powdercoat.
If i were going to drive it still, it would of definately been a hot dip galvanize, then paint or powder.

 

[Joe_E]

I stripped my frame down to bare steel -
from this:
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww319/niceguysanti/62/blueframe.jpg
to this: (pressure blasted)
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww319/niceguysanti/62/b534b528.jpg
to this: (phenolic resin primer brushed on)
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww319/niceguysanti/62/7a8380bf.jpg
to this: (eastwood chassis black sprayed on)
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww319/niceguysanti/62/b67d99e0.jpg

I also used a product from eastwood that is sprayed inside the frame rails to prevent any rusting from the inside out.

Beautifull job there bro.

 

[Zack1978]

Zack , unless you do a complete strip down, like sandblasting, you'll always chase the rust. I took care of my 60 like my child. But daily driving in winter in the northeast is a losing battle.
I don't plan on driving her now in the salt months after the resto so i went with a sandblast and powdercoat.
If i were going to drive it still, it would of definately been a hot dip galvanize, then paint or powder.

I called the powder coat place that you told me about, and they were very nice and knowledgeable. The guy that I spoke with said that not much will stick to anything that has been galvanized.
My 60 will never see road salt again either, but I still want the ultimate protection. I wonder if I can do the galvanizing then simply use the Eastwood black frame paint?


Zack

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The only way to seriously protect the frame is to move out of the salt. The next best thing you can do is remove the rear inner c-channel, box in the rear section of the frame, then have it acid dipped and galvanized. I didn't have the $ for galvanizing, so I used a zinc heavy self-etching primer and a zinc rich paint, both from tractor supply. 9 months later and it still looks great! Coat the inner ( after a good cleaning ) with the Eastwood inner frame coating.

 

[SNLC]

Has anyone ever fully boxed and sealed their frame?? Just seems like it would be impossible to protect the inside...

What do you mean? Weld up all the holes and seal it up that way?

If anything I would want to open it up a bit more with some new drain holes. So that the crap that gets in it is easier to get out.

If you drive it in salt it is a losing battle. Although if you take it back to new or better then new and wash it once a week in the winter with a pressure washer plus apply new rust prevention like the fishoil every year. It will last a lot longer.

I don't like powder coating myself because you can't touch it up well when it chips and it will chip eventually. On top of that powder coating does nothing to protect the inside of the frame. Hot dip galvi is not cheap or available to everyone. I would have to send my frame at least 500 miles to have that done. I bet you can also find lots of Rovers with galvanized frames that are still rotting.

Cutting out the inner C-channel is best to clean the inside. But that makes an already big project even bigger and if you don't cut the c-channel out just right you will have a tough time welding it back in place. Fabbing a whole new inner frame rail is even more work, lot's more. Which is why I suggested a frayed cable and then working the POR15/Rust Bullet in there. If you can afford and have a place that can dip the frame once ready, it is a good choice although I don't think I would go for galvanized. The crap is toxic to weld on, just one reason.

I have got the frame for my 60 to be done as well as a frame for a 77 Ute to do. I plan to attack both the same(see above), if the Utes frame I am not satisfied with after cleaning, I will cut out the inner frame rail. However, I know how big of a can of worms I will be opening by doing that!

I am super anal about rust and don't think a job is worth doing if you don't do it right. Which is why I posted what I did above.

 

[niceguysanti]

You have to be able to flush the inside of the frame particularly during those salty winter months. I didn't mention that before I used Eastwoods internal frame coating -

I flushed the frame with a water hose that I capped off and perforated so the water would spray in all directions. I then ran a degreaser and then some simple green inside the frame. I flushed with water again until it ran clear then dried it with an air hose. I then used the Internal frame coating - it comes with a 18" or so hose that has a special radial pattern nozzle. This was inserted at one end of the frame and worked thru all the frame openings to the other side of the frame. A couple of coats later I ran a flashlight and a inspection mirror into the frame and it looked like it was thoroughly coated. It was a PITA indeed but I wanted a frame that would hold up to our NorhtEast winters.