T bars: OME vs. Ironman vs. ???

[ShottsUZJ100]

Doesn't t bar behavior have less to do with diameter and more to do with the way the steel was made?

*Diameter

*And the fact they have a more limited range of motion. Meaning:

If you have them set for no lift...the range where they twist is about even, up vs down travel. Ride is better and you're within their "twisting" range.

If you have lift then they twist very little when the tire droops. When the tire needs to be compressed they have to twist far more than normal. Outside of their normal range of motion they "fight back" as though they were progressive (though technically they are not). This is another main reason why you can't strap on a long-arm front suspension and expect 12-inches travel. The bars have to go too as they cannot allow that travel.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

diameter dictates the stiffness. Larger mm diameter= more weight they can support.

There are downsides to a thicker torsion bar, thicker you go, the more weight you will need to have in order to compress them all the way. Some run high-speed washboard so a stiffer front end is nicer. Some do slow, off-camber trails which require full articulation. You can get full articulation from a thicker torsion bar, but it will be harder to accomplish this without a aftermarket bumper and winch. They do sag over time, so torsion bars are something you replace, mine are about due since I have re-indexed them 2 times and after 6 months I loose roughly 1/2".

Well said....though I'm disappointed in your "sagging results". My SAW's are 10-years old and no sagging. Never even been fine-tuned...well, since I added more lift and 35's whatever years ago. This might be a SAW advantage over OME. Don't know.

 

[2000UZJ]

Well said....though I'm disappointed in your "sagging results". My SAW's are 10-years old and no sagging. Never even been fine-tuned...well, since I added more lift and 35's whatever years ago. This might be a SAW advantage over OME. Don't know.

I have stock torsion bars that have supported my 100 for 11years, 140K and a ARB dangling over the front for the past 50K along with wheeling and being cycled up and down offroad. I need to get on to replacing them, but the ride.... oh so nice

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I have stock torsion bars that have supported my 100 for 11years, 140K and a ARB dangling over the front for the past 50K along with wheeling and being cycled up and down offroad. I need to get on to replacing them, but the ride.... oh so nice

Gotcha. And you make my point. Those smaller bars articulate. You will be surprised when you change bars. You'll wonder why your front wheels don't compress like they did before on those trails you run.

Buying the right brand/diameter bar is really important. I see no US application where the Ironman would be the preffered choice. Maybe on a 100 with TD power/ARB/Winch...due to all the extra weight of the TD.

 

[Liam]

Thanks for the input. Can score the tbars on eBay now for 120. But I'll give camel a call as well. I hope there is nothing wrong with the eBay ones though.

jgray, any chance you can measure your ebay Ironman T-bars with a micrometer? I'm just wondering if Ironman changed the spring rate on the new ones.

when i bought mine from Camel i asked him about the ones on Ebay and he told me those have been in the states for a long time and IM has changed to spun metal in the t-bars.....whatever that means.

he could be full of it, but it seems legit that the ones on Ebay are old stock since Camel is the only importer of IM stuff

 

[jgray]

I'm not buying the negative feedback from some of the others on the Ironman bars... The people that have them installed and are actually running them are happy with them and have reported good impressions of quality construction as well as ride quailty...

Shotts seems to be a hater of any components other than what is installed on his "rock limo"... I seriously doubt there would be much performance difference in a SAW 31mm tbar and a Ironman 32mm tbar...

Is there anyone that has done any actual real world trail testing with each of these options (OEM, SAW, OME, Ironman) or run any trails with vehicles outfitted with these different setups?

 

[Liam]

I'm not buying the negative feedback from some of the others on the Ironman bars... The people that have them installed and are actually running them are happy with them and have reported good impressions of quality construction as well as ride quailty...
?

i agree with you on this.....i couldnt find them on Ebay when i was looking for them if i had found them there i would have bought them.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I'm not buying the negative feedback from some of the others on the Ironman bars... The people that have them installed and are actually running them are happy with them and have reported good impressions of quality construction as well as ride quailty...

Shotts seems to be a hater of any components other than what is installed on his "rock limo"... I seriously doubt there would be much performance difference in a SAW 31mm tbar and a Ironman 32mm tbar...

Is there anyone that has done any actual real world trail testing with each of these options (OEM, SAW, OME, Ironman) or run any trails with vehicles outfitted with these different setups?

Your bars have you blinded.

I have said that the SAW on "ROKLIMO" are too stiff and that the OME's would be a better choice. So I am not a hater of anything not on my "ROKLIMO". I'd trade for OME's in a HEARTBEAT right now.

The diameter makes a BIG difference (whether it hurts your feelings or not). In other countries they use the larger bars for the TD rigs vs the V8's because the TD's are so much heavier.

It's not rocket science to know that an 864 spring for an unloaded truck is too stiff. In the rear though running that spring will not hurt your articulation much (if at all at the extremes).

The front of our 100's are different as T-bars work different than coil springs. Added spring rate makes stuffing a tire HARD on a 2-inch (or more) lifted truck. OME equipped rigs work good with an ARB and Winch. SAW with only 1/2 more mm are a bit stiff and you can tell on the trails as the front's fight compression vs OME. OME = Better. Now you want to increase 2x that difference again (or another mm). Might help out in high speed bumps and stuff. On the trails...articulation sucks unless you add on the appropriate weight for there to be a "balance".

Enjoy your setup!

 

[Anthony.L]

The diameter of the T-Bar is directly related to spring rate. In other words going from a 31mm to a 32mm T-Bar is like going from a OME 860 to a OME 864 rear spring. Both T-Bars and springs are going to give you the same lift, but with a drastically different spring rate. Spring rate directly effects the load capacity and thus ride quality and articulation of the suspension.

Pretty easy to understand fellows. This is the exact reason why I bought OME T-bars for my LC and they are still a year later sitting in the garage not installed. Until I put some significant weight on the front end all I would be doing is killing my ride quality and articulation on the trails.

Some people just don't like to hear bad news about something they just spent good money on.

 

[wareagle]

Until I put some significant weight on the front end all I would be doing is killing my ride quality and articulation on the trails.

Some people just don't like to hear bad news about something they just spent good money on.

I'm a straight shooter, so you won't hear me trying to justify my purchases. That said, I disagree with your concerns about higher rate tbars.

You're much more likely to kill your ride quality by switch to high pressure gas shocks ( billstiens) than switching spring rate on tbars.

As far as articulation goes, I hit bumpstops on old t-bars and continue to hit them today. Downward travel ( aka Droop) change was less than 1/2" . I heard this garbage before, so I was expecting to see significant loss in droop. Wish I had measured in mm, so I could better quantify.

 

[ironman racing]

I am a dealer for both ARB and Ironman. I have installed several sets for several different makes and models of trucks using both ARB and Ironman. In side by side testing it seems to really come down to brand preference. I have measured everything I could in identical trucks and could not come up with any numbers that where too far off from each brand compared to the other. You might call a different dealer and ask them for the bars as I ordered mine last week and did not have any problem getting them.

 

[mechanixhorseman]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think I'll be ordering shocks/springs/diff drop now and maybe holding off on T bars for a little bit. I plan on putting on the ARB delux bar soon, but it may be a little bit before I get the winch. Given that info, I'm assuming the oem bars will still be able to get me 2-2.5 inches of lift along with the other OME lift components. Seems there is a lot to consider and maybe I'll gauge my situation as I put on the other parts first.

 

[jgray]

mechaniixhorseman - i have done pretty much as you have described above. although i do have my tbars sitting in the garage, i have also decided to wait until i have more weight up front before i install them. i was able to get about 2.5" of lift out of my factory tbars and after the shocks and coils springs were installed the ride is feeling sooo nice... i'm collecting a few other things I need before moving up from 285/70/16 MT's to 35's....

ironman racing - thanks for posting information from someone who has actually run both ARB and Ironman products...

 

[Brock]

I have a full Ironman setup in my garage waiting to be installed....only thing stopping me is I hate to rip out my AHC until it starts dying on me. LOL

I have a very heavy BIOR bumper with a 12k winch stuffed inside on front...and a very heavy BIOR bumper with tire and jerry can swingouts on rear.....and loaded with gear, canoe, food, and full tank figure it will be about right. I had OME on my FJC and dont feel they will be too stiff if you are running heavy bumpers and a winch...if running the tube bumper or a lighter one with a smaller winch then might want to go lighter...but then add a dual battery setup and a new steel skid plate underneath and you got your weight back up there again.

Good luck but I dont think either setup will do you wrong....but only reason I can tell the ARB-OME is more money is they had no real competition before. BDS made some stuff for Land Cruisers but stopped at least for 60 series as the OME was just too hard to take off the recommended list by everyone. Now another australian company with 40 years of experience is in same market....both being well received and respected...albeit OME and ARB are household names.

Some guys like Rancho, some like Skyjacker....some like neither. Choice is good....so far I have not heard a bad thing about the Ironman from anyone that has actually ran a setup....guess I will find out soon enough. I see no reason to be disappointed though.

 

[mechanixhorseman]

mechaniixhorseman - i have done pretty much as you have described above. although i do have my tbars sitting in the garage, i have also decided to wait until i have more weight up front before i install them. i was able to get about 2.5" of lift out of my factory tbars and after the shocks and coils springs were installed the ride is feeling sooo nice... i'm collecting a few other things I need before moving up from 285/70/16 MT's to 35's....

ironman racing - thanks for posting information from someone who has actually run both ARB and Ironman products...

Ya I saw you setup in your post. Definitely helped tip me over the edge towards my decision, which is of course... indecision. It's good to know that I can still get a decent lift out of the oem bars.

I have a full Ironman setup in my garage waiting to be installed....only thing stopping me is I hate to rip out my AHC until it starts dying on me. LOL

I have a very heavy BIOR bumper with a 12k winch stuffed inside on front...and a very heavy BIOR bumper with tire and jerry can swingouts on rear.....and loaded with gear, canoe, food, and full tank figure it will be about right. I had OME on my FJC and dont feel they will be too stiff if you are running heavy bumpers and a winch...if running the tube bumper or a lighter one with a smaller winch then might want to go lighter...but then add a dual battery setup and a new steel skid plate underneath and you got your weight back up there again.

Good luck but I dont think either setup will do you wrong....but only reason I can tell the ARB-OME is more money is they had no real competition before. BDS made some stuff for Land Cruisers but stopped at least for 60 series as the OME was just too hard to take off the recommended list by everyone. Now another australian company with 40 years of experience is in same market....both being well received and respected...albeit OME and ARB are household names.

Some guys like Rancho, some like Skyjacker....some like neither. Choice is good....so far I have not heard a bad thing about the Ironman from anyone that has actually ran a setup....guess I will find out soon enough. I see no reason to be disappointed though.

I hope you post once you get the iron mans on your setup. I'd be interested to hear your take.

To the other poster who couldn't find the ebay link for the iron mans here it is:

98-2003 Landcruiser 100 2" Front Torsion Bars - eBay (item 230197206067 end time Feb-10-11 08:34:18 PST)

I contacted the vendor, who states although the manufacture date of the part is likely to be over 9 years old it has the same part number "toyo050" (the same as the current ones on iron mans site), and therefore should be the same part. You probably can't find it because they didn't bother to put "iron man" in the description. They also said that the part number "bracket100" is "required" and sells separately from camel4x4 for around 20 bucks or so. Not sure how much truth there is to it being required, but it seems worth mentioning.

 

[hoser]

They also said that the part number "bracket100" is "required" and sells separately from camel4x4 for around 20 bucks or so. Not sure how much truth there is to it being required, but it seems worth mentioning.

I'm pretty sure the reinforcement bracket is not required. However, many turbo diesel 100's have had problems with the arms cracking and I can understand why they will automatically recommend the bracket for all 100's.

 

[Brock]

I'm pretty sure the reinforcement bracket is not required. However, many turbo diesel 100's have had problems with the arms cracking and I can understand why they will automatically recommend the bracket for all 100's.

true...same thing I was told....only been problem on the aussie rigs with diesel.....but included in all kits you buy. i will install them for the extra support.....

 

[OregonLC]

Where would the bracket go? At the LCA attach point?

 

[moooooooo]

I have a full Ironman setup in my garage waiting to be installed....only thing stopping me is I hate to rip out my AHC until it starts dying on me. LOL

I have a very heavy BIOR bumper with a 12k winch stuffed inside on front...and a very heavy BIOR bumper with tire and jerry can swingouts on rear.....and loaded with gear, canoe, food, and full tank figure it will be about right. I had OME on my FJC and dont feel they will be too stiff if you are running heavy bumpers and a winch...if running the tube bumper or a lighter one with a smaller winch then might want to go lighter...but then add a dual battery setup and a new steel skid plate underneath and you got your weight back up there again.

Good luck but I dont think either setup will do you wrong....but only reason I can tell the ARB-OME is more money is they had no real competition before. BDS made some stuff for Land Cruisers but stopped at least for 60 series as the OME was just too hard to take off the recommended list by everyone. Now another australian company with 40 years of experience is in same market....both being well received and respected...albeit OME and ARB are household names.

Some guys like Rancho, some like Skyjacker....some like neither. Choice is good....so far I have not heard a bad thing about the Ironman from anyone that has actually ran a setup....guess I will find out soon enough. I see no reason to be disappointed though.

i have to agree about your comments with regards to no other competition.

My budget has been cut significantly due to whats happening in my work sector, but i got a nice quote for about $1200 ish (Oz) for a nice Ironman suspension that will lift it by the usual amount of 50mm.

Given i read another post earlier about a dealer trying to rip someone off...i was quoted by where i got my KM2s $960 for them to replace my shocks!! I'd already told them i was gonna get it done elsewhere, but whoah, thats a lot of $$ for something that even i can do.

What i dont know how to do is replace the torsion bars etc etc.
The only thing i havent got quoted for, now that i think of it, is a Slee diff drop kit.

Man, now i need to talk Darren again and get a quote from him!
Happy to do that by the way, i'd just forgotten about the diff drop kit.
aarrgghhh....it's only money i guess. I just need to sell a few a things.

Not the left one tho
cheers
peter

 

[LT]

If you guys are interested in purchasing the Sway Away torsion bars we are a wholesale dealer for Sway Away and I have access to 10 sets of their torsion bars. I can get a special pricing if I purchase all 10 sets that Sway Away has in stock that will be comparable in price to the Old Man Emu torsion bars.

We are also an Old Man Emu dealer so I can sell the springs and shocks needed for the set up along with the Total Chaos UCA's. If you guys are seriously interested please post up and I can get the ball rolling on the special pricing for the Sway Away torsion bars.