Swivel Hub Leak Advice

[robnicko]

The first time they did it, they used aftermarket seals (no idea what brand). When it started leaking, I insisted they use genuine toyota seals. I provided them with a hub seal and an inner axle seal. They only replaced the inner axle seal and it's still leaking. So if the inner axle seal is the issue, it's not the type of seal, but something else, whether incorrect installation or a groove etc. I wont know till it's all stripped down again I guess.

The highlighted bit above, my thoughts are the seal may have been damaged when putting the axle back in, probably dislodged the spring as previously mentioned. But, looking at your videos it's not much of a leak, I did my passenger side not too long ago as the leak was dripping on the tyre. I just replaced the inner seal and wipers as the bearings were still good.

I remember when my 80 was just out of warranty in '98 and Toyota quoted me $800 to do the front axle seals as the LHF was leaking was the prompter for me to get a workshop manual and learn to do this myself. Best $ spent back then.
The LHS side took me a fair while being new to it but then the second side I breezed through.

To be honest its not a difficult job to do, just very messy.

 

[petegangies]

All 4 nuts are tight as hell so its not that causing the leak. Also looks like they have tried to seal the RH side using a sealant/goop. I'm not even convinced they did a swivel hub rebuild on the passenger side either.

 

[petegangies]

 

[petegangies]

Honestly.. the other side doesn't even look like it was done either. 4000km ago since this was supposedly done.

 

[Malleus]

That's a problem because there shouldn't be any leakage from there. the top, and bottom, of the knuckle are machined flat and the mating surfaces are too. There are precision steel shims between them to set the geometry.

BTW, those nuts should always be tight; if they are not, you'll have serious problems.

Any weeping should come from the area of the ball, by design.

 

[Broski]

I would agree, doesn’t look like they were done.

 

[Rifleman]

So if the inner axle seal is the issue, it's not the type of seal, but something else, whether incorrect installation or a groove etc

To answer your question, yes, the shop that installed these seals for you may of installed them cocked, or damaged the seals lip, or dented the seals metal housing. When i did this job i didn't like the idea of trying to drive that seal into the axle housing using my Lisle seal driver set. The reason i didn't like the Lisle seal driver set, you have no way of being sure that when you drive the seal into the axle housing, that it's going to end up being truly square, and not slightly cocked in the axle housing bore. Plus the 6 inch long handle for the Lisle seal driver set is short, and you are already working inside the bowel/bell of the axle housing.

What i did to make sure that my seals went in square, and flush, i made my own seal driving tool. The tool i made had a piloted nose on it that would hold the seal in place when i first started installing it. Plus i made an extra long 14 inch handle that i could hold onto outside of the axle housing bowl/bell while i hit the end of it with a hammer. In this first photo you can see a factory seal sitting next to the piloted seal driver head i made.

In this next photo you can see the seal installed on the piloted seal driver. Take note that the seal drivers O.D. is about 10 thousands of an inch bigger then the O.D. of the seal. Once you bottom out the tool against the end of the axle housings bore, you now know for sure that the seal is installed flush and square to the axle shaft it will be riding against.

In these next 2 photos you can see just how long the seal drivers handle is.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

If you plan to do it yourself (or maybe even offer your mechanic the use of one) get one of these seal drivers, it's critical that the seal is square and undamaged - I know it's stating the obvious, but someone on the clock who just wants to get 'er done and off the hoist and puts the seal in with a punch isn't a great start.

80 Series Seal Drivers

Toyota Land Cruiser 80 Series Seal Drivers Front axle seal drivers machined from 6061 aluminum. Stubby for use with standard driver handles (Lisle, Snap-On, MATCO, HF, etc) Long for the all in one piece tool

trail-tailor.com

 

[petegangies]

I would agree, doesn’t look like they were done.

I got charged a pretty penny for doing both sides as well. We have a Civil and Administrative Tribunal in my State in Australia that deal with disputes with businesses and the purchase of goods and services. Consumers are also covered by Australian Consumer Laws. So my next step is to take it to another mechanic and see if they'll confirm if at least the LHS hasn't been touched, and any other comments on the RHS that's still leaking.. even though the LHS looks like it's weeping as well. If I can get that, along with my videos and pictures, there's a very good chance they'll be forced to refund me for services not provided and the RHS for services not of acceptable quality—a hassle, but I feel very necessary.

 

[petegangies]

To answer your question, yes, the shop that installed these seals for you may of installed them cocked, or damaged the seals lip, or dented the seals metal housing. When i did this job i didn't like the idea of trying to drive that seal into the axle housing using my Lisle seal driver set. The reason i didn't like the Lisle seal driver set, you have no way of being sure that when you drive the seal into the axle housing, that it's going to end up being truly square, and not slightly cocked in the axle housing bore. Plus the 6 inch long handle for the Lisle seal driver set is short, and you are already working inside the bowel/bell of the axle housing.

What i did to make sure that my seals went in square, and flush, i made my own seal driving tool. The tool i made had a piloted nose on it that would hold the seal in place when i first started installing it. Plus i made an extra long 14 inch handle that i could hold onto outside of the axle housing bowl/bell while i hit the end of it with a hammer. In this first photo you can see a factory seal sitting next to the piloted seal driver head i made.

In this next photo you can see the seal installed on the piloted seal driver. Take note that the seal drivers O.D. is about 10 thousands of an inch bigger then the O.D. of the seal. Once you bottom out the tool against the end of the axle housings bore, you now know for sure that the seal is installed flush and square to the axle shaft it will be riding against.

In these next 2 photos you can see just how long the seal drivers handle is.

Terrain Tamer make one you can get here in Aus.. Front Axle CV Driveshaft Inner Seal Installation Tool - https://www.the4wdshed.com/Front-Axle-CV-Driveshaft-Inner-Seal-Installation-Tool?srsltid=AfmBOoro3lfmSCU7LsK19GGHraJ8Tg8wrQAPRcBg2TJmmfYoCZSaSvUm

 

[petegangies]

Stopped past a 4x4 mechanic workshop on my way home yesterday. He got under the car and had a look.. he said the LH side looks like its been apart, so at least they MIGHT have done that side. The drivers side he could see leaking and the sealant they attempted to use on the knuckle flange. As you all said, he said theres really only 2 main reasons these leak.. Axle seal not put in true or groove on the shaft. They've done thousands of them, so he's very comfortable/confident in sorting it out. It's booked in for 26th of May..his quote was very reasonable and we have a mutual friend, so I feel confident enough to get them to do the job.

 

[Malleus]

I'll keep my fingers crossed...

 

[petegangies]

I'll keep my fingers crossed...

thanks Fred... third times a charm..

 

[mudgudgeon]

All 4 nuts are tight as hell so its not that causing the leak. Also looks like they have tried to seal the RH side using a sealant/goop. I'm not even convinced they did a swivel hub rebuild on the passenger side either.

Yoy say you cleaned this?
Were you gonna eat your dinner off this?
That's a nice clean swivel hub right there.

I don't see any problem with grease or oil in that video, or the first video. Looks 100% normal to me


The silicone sealant isn't great, ideally, you wouldn't use silicone between two parts that rely on clamping force & metal on metal to help stop twisting/rotation at the joint. But, unless it's dripping a lot of oil, and make a big goopy mess on dust shields, the floor etc I'm not sure I'd touch it.

 

[petegangies]

Yoy say you cleaned this?
Were you gonna eat your dinner off this?
That's a nice clean swivel hub right there.

I don't see any problem with grease or oil in that video, or the first video. Looks 100% normal to me


The silicone sealant isn't great, ideally, you wouldn't use silicone between two parts that rely on clamping force & metal on metal to help stop twisting/rotation at the joint. But, unless it's dripping a lot of oil, and make a big goopy mess on dust shields, the floor etc I'm not sure I'd touch it.

It's been cleaned multiple times and starts to have clumped up grease on the ball and diff fluid hanging off the threads below within a couple of drivers after. Definitely leaking. LHS isnt.. RHS is.

 

[jeanbono]

Stopped past a 4x4 mechanic workshop on my way home yesterday. He got under the car and had a look.. he said the LH side looks like its been apart, so at least they MIGHT have done that side. The drivers side he could see leaking and the sealant they attempted to use on the knuckle flange. As you all said, he said theres really only 2 main reasons these leak.. Axle seal not put in true or groove on the shaft. They've done thousands of them, so he's very comfortable/confident in sorting it out. It's booked in for 26th of May..his quote was very reasonable and we have a mutual friend, so I feel confident enough to get them to do the job.

Sound like Australia to me, think I've got 2 mechanics I can trust out of the 30 I ever went to, it's seriously a problem here, can't even imagine how those who are not mechanically inclined would get robbed. They should all be real estate agents instead. Hope you found a good one!

 

[petegangies]

Sound like Australia to me, think I've got 2 mechanics I can trust out of the 30 I ever went to, it's seriously a problem here, can't even imagine how those who are not mechanically inclined would get robbed. They should all be real estate agents instead. Hope you found a good one!

my regular mechanic is excellent, but semi retired, he didn't want to take this job on. Hopefully this local 4x4 shop is decent. The muppets that did this job were located in Newcastle and not 4wd specialists, they were just recommended by a mate that uses them for his normal vehicle. We'll find out in May how good these guys are! I was impressed by the cleanliness of their workshop, to me that always says a lot about the pride of who works there. Also good to see only 4wds on the hoists, and the fact they're not easy to get in to see when most workshops at the moment here are light on work.

 

[jeanbono]

That's a good sign indeed, is this a shop in Sydney?
I hate when you have to go through Rego and they find whatever reason they can to make money. "There's oil leaking out of your car". So dumb. I stay away from mechanics unless I really need to and yeah shame for the one who semi retired, hopefully you find another one like that.

 

[petegangies]

That's a good sign indeed, is this a shop in Sydney?
I hate when you have to go through Rego and they find whatever reason they can to make money. "There's oil leaking out of your car". So dumb. I stay away from mechanics unless I really need to and yeah shame for the one who semi retired, hopefully you find another one like that.

my semi retired mechanic and this 4x4 shop I'm taking it to fix the swivel hub/axle seal leak are in Sydney (Artarmon to be exact). I try and do everything myself, but sometimes I have to know what jobs not to try and take on when I dont have a proper garage to work out of. Hopefully that will change when I buy a new house this year.