Stick weld questions

[chicago]

Hey all,
I picked up a Lincoln AD/DC stick welder about a month ago and have been practicing somewhat regular with it....
I have a few questions.
Working in position is fine, but the out of position welds (vertical up especially, and over head welds) are just HORRIBLE. Im burning through material (1/4 in thick) and or gouging the metal, and the puddle is dripping due to gravity.
Can anyone give me some insight on technique for these procedures?

Im running 6011's (3/32 @ 65 amps and 1/8 @85 amps) and 7018's (3/32 @ 65 amps) for rod on DC+
Ive tried turning the juice down, but it becomes extremely difficult to strike an arc even more difficult to run a bead!

What would be the best rod for out of position stuff?

Thanks,

Chicago

 

[tyama]

Hi,

IIRC, for the vertical up you need to do a flick manuever with the stick. You get your weld puddle going then flick the tip back off the puddle in a longer arc for a second or two then move up a small bit and back down into the top of your puddle. I think the flick helps to cool the slag a bit so it doesn't run. It's much easier if the weld starts about at chest high. I'm just a novice and haven't done it since taking a short welding class a few years ago. I'm not sure about the overhead. HTH, ty

 

[cheap 40]

In my opinion 6011 blows for anything but rusted junk. 6013, 7014, and 7018 are what I mainly use, and keep in mind that the third digit (1 in all three examples) indicates position, with the "1" meaning that it's an all position rod. Any of those three should work in both overhead (4G) and vertical (3G).

Now, I have only got an AC Lincoln, therefore I only weld in AC (duh). I can't remember which way it is, but I know that DC - or + will put more heat into the steel or rod. If you are using DC+ and burning through 1/4" material, my guess is that the + puts more heat in the steel. You may try switching it to DC- and put more heat in the rod. It is just one of those things that you have to be willing to try different settings and see what works best for you.

As far as technique, on overheads I have always stayed with the same thing that I use when welding in the flat. On vertical ups, I try to stay out of the middle of the joint as much as possible. If you hang out in the middle too much, you'll likely end up with a big ridge or spine in the weld. I try to burn in on one side and immediately jump to the other side, and keep burning in and jumping all of the way up. Same thing with this though, you just have to be willing to burn some rod and find what works best for you. HTH

Tony

 

[brian]

turn the heat up.
6011 are just like 5P's.
1/8 6011 and 3/32" 7018, both will run well at around 75-85 amps.
both will do well out of postion, though the 18's will not like running down hill.
withthe 7018 you want small upside down ''U'' shaped movements when traveling up hill. over head ''W'' work well.
flat, just drag.

6011's get whipped.
form a puddle.
whip the rod not quite a full puddle wideth in front the formed puddle. sit there a second while the previous puddle solidifies. now whip back to cover half of the now solid ''puddle''. reform a puddle.
see above.

that works in just about all postions.

7018's will lay a smooth ''nice'' loooking bead.
the 6011's will also lay a nice bead though the ''puddles'' will not be as tight, most people think they look 'rougher''.

hard to write it out but it's really qute easy to do....once you get it

6011 and 6010(aka5P) are awesome rods, though you need to know how to use them reach there full potenal.

 

[Pytbool]

Alrighty, time to contribute something to MUD....

If you are burning through you are putting to much heat in. With that rod size and metal thickness you are probably standing in one place too long. You should be able to run 90-120A or so with 1/8 6011/6010. Keep the tip of the rod closer to the joint. You do not want a long arc - particularly with 7018.

6011 is known as a "fast-freeze" rod which the "whip" technique works well for. I whip the rod in all positions.

Start with the rod pointed up slightly. The technique for vertical up is to focus the rod on a spot until the puddle is a good size (1.5-2x rod thickness). Whip the rod straight up along the weld joint. The puddle will freeze. Then bring the rod down and aim it at the edge of the last puddle until it is the appropriate size. Then whip again. It should be a quick process -- hold-whip-hold-whip. Remember to keep a short arc.

If you do a decent job it will look like a TIG weld. To adapt for a horizontal weld I aim the rod straight in to the joint (not angling forward or back). Clean metal is best, but it will go through paint and grease once you get the arc started. You can drag it to do vertical down as well; however, vertical up in stick is always stronger than vertical down.



7018 is low hydrogen. Don't let it get wet. I don't bother using it unless I've been keeping it in my homemade rod oven (a mailbox with a light bulb in it). These are not supposed to be exposed due to the fact that they will absorb moisture from the air. If it is fresh and dry, it will weld better. Can you use 7018 that has been sitting out for a day or a week or a month? I don't because rod's cheap and I'm one of those people that invites failure when I don't do everything exactly right. DO NOT whip 7018. It is not fast freeze. 6011 burns through its own slag. 7018 will not and you WILL have slag intrusions that will weaken your weld.

I start with the rod aimed at about 45 degrees up. Keep the tip of the rod in the puddle! Induce a "beer shake" (right to left) for the first pass up to make the bead 1.5-2x the width of the rod. If you are undercutting a lot, try holding the sides for a FRACTION of a second longer, and keep the tip of the rod in the puddle! There are more techniques for subsequent passes if necessary. A long arc will help create slag intrusions, undercut, and a generally s***ty appearance. Keep it as short as possible. If you are having trouble with the short arc and you are sticking the rod, crank up the heat.

To adapt for a horizontal weld, aim the rod away from the direction you are welding to at about 45 degrees to the work surface -you can just about rest the rod in the joint. Watch the puddle as you drag the rod. It should be football shaped/elliptical. If it is round, you are moving too slow. If the bead is not wider than your rod, you moved too fast.

Always clean the metal as much as possible for 7018. You will not get a good or acceptable weld with dirty metal. Do not weld vertical down with 7018. It is tagged all-position, but sucks for V-down.


For overhead welds, get yourself braced in a position that will keep your welding arm from getting tired and treat the welds as horizontal welds. Piece of cake as long as you don't have molten steel dropping in your lap and rolling down your back (so put on a hat, bandana, earplugs, leathers, safety glasses - people have burned out their eardrums and lost hearing due to lack of ear protection!!!). Body stability and junk-not-on-fire are two key requirements to good overhead welding.


On another note, for general fab I wouldn't bother with anything but 6010(DC)/6011/7018. 6013 is commonly available and makes a pretty bead, but it is shallow penetration. There's other funny stuff out there like 7024(fast-fill) and nickel for cast, but it isn't too likely you will use them on a Cruiser.

Oh yeah, practice a lot and destructively test to see how you did.
HTH

-Tyler

 

[tyama]

What do you guys think about 7014? I primarily use 7014 or sometimes 7018 or 7018 AC. All of these on DC +. I know the 7018AC is ac but i read you can run it on DC+. I bought a small pack as it was the only 7018 available at the time. Good thread, ty

 

[chicago]

This is what I LOVE about this site so much!
Thank you, guyz for the info on rod selection and technique!
This stick welding business is a tough nut, for sure.
My biggest issue for the OOP welds has been the puddle dripping from gravity!
I guess that Im still trying to use the techniques I used for the lil mig machine and finding they do not work so well when stick welding.
So the whip technique is the best for the vertical up welds...
Im thinking that I was not allowing the puddle to cool enough before bringing the arc back down, and im hitting the joint pretty hard with the arc as well.
I have been pretty lazy about the prep work, as Im just practicing on scrap...

You guyz rule!

Thanks,

Chicago

 

[Pytbool]

What do you guys think about 7014?

7024 is a fast fill. It lays down more metal than other electrodes. It isn't used for anything that isn't horizontal, which is denoted by the "2" in the number. High deposition rate = fast welding speeds for production.

7014 is also a fast fill, but for all position use which is denoted by the "1". I haven't used it in a long time, but I'd say it is a compromise between 7018 and 7024 regarding deposition rates. If it works for you and your welds are strong and look good, I don't see any reason not to use it.

This stick welding business is a tough nut, for sure.

Absolutely! I think once you learn stick, other techniques are easier since you need to pay a lot of attention to puddle control and rod direction/speed.

-Tyler

 

[beaufort-fj60]

what's the deal with slag?
is there more or less slag depending on how much prep you do to the welding surfaces. No prep lots of slag, lots of prep no slag.

Or does slag come from the coating on the sticks.

Or does it come from the mix of the stick and the metals you are attempting to weld.

or does it come from a poor welding skillz

 

[TLCA_Paul]

Rods should be heated to 250* for 2 hours to remove all moisture. Depending on humidity rods can absorb moisture from the air between 1/2 to 4 hours.

Verticle welds are the hardest to do. Overhead is just like welding flat. Just drag it. On verticle run the rod pointing up. This will get the slag to blow up to the top of the puddle, not into the weld. Best way to do this for me is to not try and be steady, but to get a rythem going. Keep the arc small, and the power up.

Prep is most important. Grind everything clean as you can. Not just the surface your welding but 1/4" at least around the corners. You don't want paint to burn and bubble into your weld. Also if your welding galvanised metal clean it all of till you see sparks flying. If the sparks are not flying you are just smearing galv across the metal.

Slag comes from the coating, and some of the impurities in the metal floating to the top. Mainly it rod coating.

 

[chicago]

TLCA_PAUL,
What are you using to heat your rod to 250*?
Ive heard this once before, but how important is it to do this?
Ive been leaving them in the container closed up...
Youre saying that the vertical weld should be a "drag" weld?
Ive done some experimenting with the "whip" technique, and this has produced the best result and keeps gravity drip to a minimum, but Ive never tried dragging the arc.

Thanks,

Chicago

 

[brian]

what's the deal with slag?
is there more or less slag depending on how much prep you do to the welding surfaces. No prep lots of slag, lots of prep no slag.

Or does slag come from the coating on the sticks.

Or does it come from the mix of the stick and the metals you are attempting to weld.

or does it come from a poor welding skillz

it's the ''shield'' part of shielded metal arc welding..SMAW.

 

[brian]

TLCA_PAUL,
What are you using to heat your rod to 250*?
Ive heard this once before, but how important is it to do this?

not very, unless you're doing extremely critical joints were everything needs to be as prefect as it can be.

for everything else just keep them dry, as compared to in a bucket, in the backyard, during the rainy season.


though it depends on how you long you plan on storing them.
if you have a 50# tin and use 10 rods once every 6 months, then yes an oven would come in handy. but if you have a 10# bag that will get used in 6 moths to a year there's no need for an oven.

 

[brian]

TLCA_PAUL,

Youre saying that the vertical weld should be a "drag" weld?



Chicago

nope.

 

[Pin_Head]

Youre saying that the vertical weld should be a "drag" weld?

Only vertical down is dragged, not vertical up.

The type of application where you would do vertical down is where you don't want much penetration, like stick welding sheet metal.

 

[brian]

Only vertical down is dragged, not vertical up.

.

more clearly, vertical up is only position were you push the puddle, all others the puddle is drug.

 

[TLCA_Paul]

Sorry for the confusion. Yes push the puddle up, not drag.

250* is the ASW code for structual steel. Not that important for welding on your truck. Just keep them dry as you can. If they get wet it induces hydrogen into your weld, and the weld will be brittle. Once you learn how to weld you will be able to tell if your rods are wet by the way they sound or spatter.

 

[Mace]

nice thing about the desert.. Very low humidity..

Rods last forever..