last line of the OP's post....
anyway, I'm out of this conversation - I already see it going sideways and I want no part of it.
Steering issues (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter hotwod
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
last line of the OP's post....
anyway, I'm out of this conversation - I already see it going sideways and I want no part of it.
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Oh. I didn't see that.
I was hoping to find out what the problem turned out to be.
If you get totally stumped, jack it up and make sure the wheels aren't somehow loose. could be bearing or tierod end, then go to an alignment shop, ask for the data and post the measured values. Loose parts or improper toe/caster can cause strange behavior
Ackerman on trucks is typically for parking lot maneuvers. On race cars you use reverse ackerman, if memory serves, for high speed handling characteristics. Since you discuss highway driving and wandering I personally would rule out ackerman. That said it is worthwhile to check the geometry as was stated earlier. Vehicles these days don't use perfect ackerman but for eyeballing it you could sight the tierod and kingpin and see if it would approximately intersect the center of the rear axle.
Ackerman on trucks is typically for parking lot maneuvers. On race cars you use reverse ackerman, if memory serves, for high speed handling characteristics. Since you discuss highway driving and wandering I personally would rule out ackerman. That said it is worthwhile to check the geometry as was stated earlier. Vehicles these days don't use perfect ackerman but for eyeballing it you could sight the tierod and kingpin and see if it would approximately intersect the center of the rear axle.
Last edited:
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Wheel bearings, good thought.
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Could be wheel bearings though. Lots of people forget to re-torque them after the first few hundred miles.
All LCs (to my knowledge) with 9.5" diffs in the front axle had the tie rod and relay rod in front of the axle. I used to have my tie rod in front of the axle and now it's in the rear. No change in driving characteristics.
I agree that it's something loose/improper caster/improper axle alignment, not the steering geometry.
I agree that it's something loose/improper caster/improper axle alignment, not the steering geometry.
- Thread starter
- #29
Sorry guys, I'm not getting notifications on here.
Ok I'm gonna check the toe in and the caster. I'm using the stock 80 steering box. My biggest thing is that this was all fine before I moved the steering.
But ill get into it this weekend and let you guys know
Ok I'm gonna check the toe in and the caster. I'm using the stock 80 steering box. My biggest thing is that this was all fine before I moved the steering.
But ill get into it this weekend and let you guys know
The point here is that you did not just move the steering. You installed a whole new axle. It's not like you changed one variable and have a problem that's easy to diagnose, you changed 10 things at once.
Let's ask another question about the axle. Who built it? What caster/camber specs were used when it was built?
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
My suggestion is to go for the low fruit first.
Step one, have someone sit in the drivers seat and wiggle the steering wheel back and forth, just enough to start to feel resistance but not move the tires. Meanwhile get under the rig and watch the linkage and look for play around the TRE's and steering arms. It's normal to have some play in the steering gear box but the steering wheel should only move a few degrees each way. If you see a lot of movement in the steering wheel but no movement in the linkage look at the steering gear box. I'm not familiar with the 80 series box but the older gear boxes had an adjustment that would tighten things up. Check with the 80 forum on that one.
If nothing shows up there, put the axle on jack stands grab a wheel at 12 and 6 and try to rock it back and forth, same process on both sides.
Just for grins I'd measure the axel spacing between front and rear to make sure the axels are parallel. I'm no expert but I think if the axels are not parallel it would cause the problem you describe.
Step one, have someone sit in the drivers seat and wiggle the steering wheel back and forth, just enough to start to feel resistance but not move the tires. Meanwhile get under the rig and watch the linkage and look for play around the TRE's and steering arms. It's normal to have some play in the steering gear box but the steering wheel should only move a few degrees each way. If you see a lot of movement in the steering wheel but no movement in the linkage look at the steering gear box. I'm not familiar with the 80 series box but the older gear boxes had an adjustment that would tighten things up. Check with the 80 forum on that one.
If nothing shows up there, put the axle on jack stands grab a wheel at 12 and 6 and try to rock it back and forth, same process on both sides.
Just for grins I'd measure the axel spacing between front and rear to make sure the axels are parallel. I'm no expert but I think if the axels are not parallel it would cause the problem you describe.
- Thread starter
- #32
I had the steering on the rear on the bottom of the arms just to get it from my shop to my buddy's, no steering issues.
I did everything, copied the OEM measurements from the Centerpoint of the pinion. All mounts except the shocks are the exact same as the ones I had on the 8" front.
I set the castor at 3 degree UP from 0. I did NOT get an alignment yet and not sure I'm going to until I get the high steer arms on.
I used the tie rod and double sheer set up I had on my pathfinder and now it drives exactly the same as it (like a piece of sh!t)
Thanks Rusty! I'm gonna go through all that and hopefully I get it sorted
I did everything, copied the OEM measurements from the Centerpoint of the pinion. All mounts except the shocks are the exact same as the ones I had on the 8" front.
I set the castor at 3 degree UP from 0. I did NOT get an alignment yet and not sure I'm going to until I get the high steer arms on.
I used the tie rod and double sheer set up I had on my pathfinder and now it drives exactly the same as it (like a piece of sh!t)
Thanks Rusty! I'm gonna go through all that and hopefully I get it sorted
IIUC your steering arms are pointed inwards to the rear in the old situation and inwards to the front in the new situation.
If this is the case your geomitry will change while steering in the new situation.
When you steer with in the old situation your inner wheel will turn in more then your outher wheel, this will prevent friction between rubber and road, keeping your toe-in the same. In your new situation your outher wheel try's to make a smaller cirkel then your inner wheel, this will give a lot of friction and basicaly points the wheels more to each other as youre steering angle increases, increase your toe-in dramaticaly.
This will cause the exact behavoure you described.
This is Ackerman btw. In race cars they change Ackerman but they do the opposite of what you did, they increase the steering arm angle placing the turning center in front of the rear axels centre.
If this is the case your geomitry will change while steering in the new situation.
When you steer with in the old situation your inner wheel will turn in more then your outher wheel, this will prevent friction between rubber and road, keeping your toe-in the same. In your new situation your outher wheel try's to make a smaller cirkel then your inner wheel, this will give a lot of friction and basicaly points the wheels more to each other as youre steering angle increases, increase your toe-in dramaticaly.
This will cause the exact behavoure you described.
This is Ackerman btw. In race cars they change Ackerman but they do the opposite of what you did, they increase the steering arm angle placing the turning center in front of the rear axels centre.
- Thread starter
- #36
The Tie rod was on my SASd Pathfinder and yes it also had the same erratic steering issue. Other then that, the same heim joint type of steering was used and with the same double sheer setup. So I was wondering if it's the geometry of the drag link and tie Rod being bolted to eachother or the tie rod itself... or just an out and out coincidence
Pictures. Post pictures of what you installed
and for the record, my money is still on this
my experience in fixing this stuff - 90% of the time it is a wear issue, 10% it's a fab issue (with the caveat that the swap was moving a system from one vehicle to another).
and for the record, my money is still on this
Death wobble is a condition that can occur when you have loose or worn out suspension and/or steering components. The most common cause of death wobble is a loose front track bar bolt, worn out track bar bushing, a failing track bar mount and sometimes even a track bar that is physically bending or flexing. If you've just come off the trail and now have death wobble, there is a good chance your front track bar bolt has worked itself loose and re-tightening these bolts to 125 ft. lbs. may be all you need to do to fix it.
my experience in fixing this stuff - 90% of the time it is a wear issue, 10% it's a fab issue (with the caveat that the swap was moving a system from one vehicle to another).
Last edited:
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Actually death wobble can be caused by a few of things completely unassociated with suspension and steering components.
-out of balance tire/wheels
-bent rims
-bent axle housings
-worn wheel bearings
.......
-out of balance tire/wheels
-bent rims
-bent axle housings
-worn wheel bearings
.......
at this point it's merely arm-chair quarterbacking and experience-based guessing. I want to see pictures.... that's the take away you should have gotten from the prior post.
and in my mind, death wobble isn't something that occurs constantly - it's something that in one moment you go from everything is fine, to wondering if you're gonna die.
and in my mind, death wobble isn't something that occurs constantly - it's something that in one moment you go from everything is fine, to wondering if you're gonna die.
Pictures and I would recomend hooking it up to an alignement computer.
